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[2025 Six Nations] Ireland vs England - 01/02/25

No McCarthy really changes the dynamic of the bench, need the type of performance Henderson used to put in.
 
ShropshireAllBlack said:
Looks like the best possible team given who is available, but would prefer to see Furlong and Joe Mc. This one is finely balanced and the English bench makes me nervous.
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Yeah it's two very contrasting sides in terms of style. Big Joe is a loss from the bench for sure, I wouldn't fear the impact of the 6/2 at all if he was joining Conan, Sheehan, Crowley and Henshaw off the bench. Still a more than physical enough though.

Winning the gainline and territory battles will be key for us. Expect Prendergast to be kicking long to find grass a lot, Furbank a big loss to England in that regard.
 
Leonormous Boozer said:
Yeah it's two very contrasting sides in terms of style. Big Joe is a loss from the bench for sure, I wouldn't fear the impact of the 6/2 at all if he was joining Conan, Sheehan, Crowley and Henshaw off the bench. Still a more than physical enough though.

Winning the gainline and territory battles will be key for us. Expect Prendergast to be kicking long to find grass a lot, Furbank a big loss to England in that regard.
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Dont dismiss Steward in returning kicks.....hes faster now and his return carrying has been huge this season. 6'5 17st guy on the hoof...running good lines...
 
Geordie said:
Dont dismiss Steward in returning kicks.....hes faster now and his return carrying has been huge. 6'5 17st guy on the hoof...running good lines...
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It's more coverage back there and kick returns, something I think Furbank is very very good at. Prendergast has a rocket of a boot to accompany Lowe's. If we kick long and Steward and Freeman run back all day or kick in any way poorly, it should work well for us.

At this level of rugby, there shouldn't be any average to poor players. I don't think there are on Saturday.
 
Leonormous Boozer said:
It's more coverage back there and kick returns, something I think Furbank is very very good at. Prendergast has a rocket of a boot to accompany Lowe's. If we kick long and Steward and Freeman run back all day or kick in any way poorly, it should work well for us.

At this level of rugby, there shouldn't be any average to poor players. I don't think there are on Saturday.
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Steward also has a monster of a boot...and Freeman and Murley handy aswell.

Steward isnt the weakness that hes been painted as. The main identifiable issue with Steward is his agility in 1v1 tackles facing a side stepper. But hopefully we have a plan to keep him away from those scenarios as much as possible.
 
Crazy stat about this game. This is the first time in the history of this fixture that if you stacked the entire English backrow on top of each other and put them in a trench coat they still wouldn't be tall enough to ride a rollercoaster.
 
Geordie said:
Dont dismiss Steward in returning kicks.....hes faster now and his return carrying has been huge this season. 6'5 17st guy on the hoof...running good lines...
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When does Steward ever run a good line? Yes he's a lump, but he doesnt use it well at all. Great under the high ball, and a decent enough kick return, but with ball in hand I've never seen him be more than just average. If Furbank were fit he wouldnt feature at all, and there are probably better prospects across the Prem. Even Smith poses more threat...
 
Geordie said:
Steward also has a monster of a boot...and Freeman and Murley handy aswell.

Steward isnt the weakness that hes been painted as. The main identifiable issue with Steward is his agility in 1v1 tackles facing a side stepper. But hopefully we have a plan to keep him away from those scenarios as much as possible.
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So one of the most important skills a 15 can possess?!
 
Geordie said:
Steward also has a monster of a boot...and Freeman and Murley handy aswell.

Steward isnt the weakness that hes been painted as. The main identifiable issue with Steward is his agility in 1v1 tackles facing a side stepper. But hopefully we have a plan to keep him away from those scenarios as much as possible.
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I don't think I'm painting Steward as a weakness though, just a different type of 15 than Furbank. Steward has generally been very good v Ireland.

England dominated territory and hammered us in the kicking battle last year, they built the foundations of their win on it. Furbank wasn't perfect in that game and made a few mistakes coming into the line (which is an area England will see that they can improve on and eek out am advantage) but he covered every inch of grass in the backfield and, apart from catching the ball with a foot in touch once, it complimented England's blitz in that game massively and all but nullified Ireland's strong kicking game. Ireland rarely had the ball in the England 22 and when they got in England were set to exert maximum pressure on ball carriers and the breakdown.

Steward has a different skillset and we've added another long and accurate boot (as well as Keenan who a very strong 15 in territorial battles) to what we had last year.

Something in England's approach will have to give from last year and it's either a slightly more open backfield or one less player in the blitz between the 22s. I just see it as something Ireland will want to attack and gain opportunities from in a game that likely comes down to small margins.

With the exception of 2021, England have won the kicking battle in this game going back to 2019 and each side have won three in that span. If Ireland can get parity or an edge here I think it goes a long way to us winning the game.

I hadn't mentioned it because my focus was Ireland's approach the change for England from last year at 10 also applies here. Marcus Smith has a very strong attacking kicking game but at international level his tactical kicking game hasn't been a point of difference. Ireland didn't operate at the same level as South Africa in the autumn but I think the second half of that game is the blueprint on how we'll approach this game when we have the ball and for large parts of that South Africa didn't play in areas of the pitch that would put them under pressure, largely due to good kicking and a well thought out chase and holding onto the ball well when they were past their own 10m line.

The same thinking applies in reverse, England will have looked to our NZ game and large parts of the Australia game and have chosen a pack that is strong on the ground and will look to attack our breakdown. Has there been a weakness there? Absolutely, would you look at the Ireland pack from the autumn and point out any players who are weak at breakdowns? No, but there's obviously something there that two of the best minds in the sport were able to exploit. If England impose their gameplan well and Ireland get into the teens in the penalty account again, you probably walk out of Dublin with at least 4 points.

It's a bit of a shame this game is first up, if both teams are firing, the contrast in styles would lead to a great game. A bit of rust and / or teething issues could lead to a bit of a damp squib.

Obviously more goes into preparation than those two areas but they are two aspects of the match up that look a lot different to last year's fixture based on the autumn and changes in faces.
 
So I reckon Ireland have 16 Leinster in the 23, 11 of whom are starting.

Their backs just come from Leinster and Connacht, while we have 5 separate clubs represented in our back line alone. Their forwards are 6 Leinster and one each from Connacht and Munster, while again we have reps of 5 separate clubs in there. Their bench comes from 3 regions, ours from 5 clubs.

We have 8 clubs represented in our starting XV, with no club having more than 4 in the 23. Which is all very democratic, but not particularly helpful.

This isn't to snipe at Ire at all, more an envious acknowledgment of a country maximising their national team's chances.

France have 8 Toulouse starters and 2 more on the bench. Unsurprisingly 17 of the Scots 23 are from their 2 regions.

Amazing we win anything really. #underdogs
 
spartan32 said:
When does Steward ever run a good line? Yes he's a lump, but he doesnt use it well at all. Great under the high ball, and a decent enough kick return, but with ball in hand I've never seen him be more than just average. If Furbank were fit he wouldnt feature at all, and there are probably better prospects across the Prem. Even Smith poses more threat...
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Hes one of the top of the meters made and defenders beaten in the prem this season...
 
spartan32 said:
So one of the most important skills a 15 can possess?!
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Disagree...i would expect a top winger to beat the defending full back most times by stepping etc. Its just hes even less agile than most international full backs in that area
 
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Geordie said:
Steward isnt the weakness that hes been painted as. The main identifiable issue with Steward is his agility in 1v1 tackles facing a side stepper. But hopefully we have a plan to keep him away from those scenarios as much as possible.
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I like a lot about Steward.

But part of a FB's lot is being exposed to attackers. His lack of agility and acceleration can't really be hidden. He's got to win more than he loses.

His kicking game's fine, his high ball work excellent, his top end speed's adequate and he can hit the line very well, just not often enough.

Also needs to stay on the pitch :)
 
Geordie said:
Hes one of the top of the meters made and defenders beaten in the prem this season...
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Was listening to something where it was said the current trend is for smaller attacking minded full backs. Rugby reinventing the wheel really.

Credit was given to Steward for further development of his passing and attacking game.

It's just a shame defence wise I'm not sure where you'd rank him vs Keenan, Kinghorn, Williams, Ramos.

I could see a valid argument he's not even in the top 3/4 starting fullbacks this week end.
 
Saintjay said:
Was listening to something where it was said the current trend is for smaller attacking minded full backs. Rugby reinventing the wheel really.

Credit was given to Steward for further development of his passing and attacking game.

It's just a shame defence wise I'm not sure where you'd rank him vs Keenan, Kinghorn, Williams, Ramos.

I could see a valid argument he's not even in the top 3/4 starting fullbacks this week end.
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I would say thats true...15 is the back up playmaker to the 10 now. With defences so tight now....they're looking for ways to break them...and many 10s are moving back to 15 to allow ANOTHER 10 in...ie SBs idea with Marcus Smith. Beauden Barret etc.

My actual preference would be Joe Carpenter at Sale. i think hes a genuine quality alround 15...but doesn't seem to be getting a look in with SB.
 
Geordie said:
Hes one of the top of the meters made and defenders beaten in the prem this season...
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That really surprised me and so I had to check it for myself, and you are quite right, his stats for meters made, defenders beaten and meters made after the tackle are all pretty decent. Myabe I've just not watched him enough in games, or catch him on bad days. His tackle completion stat is really poor though (which is a little troubling). Lets hope he converts these prem stats into his England shirt.
 

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