[2025 Six Nations] England vs France - 08/02/25

[Zed]

Well done England, solid game. Is the general consensus that Fin Smith will keep the 10 jersey? What about Marcus Smith at 12. Not the biggest obviously, but then Matt Giteau was about the same size and he used to play against the likes of Nonu and Umaga. How did Marcus Smith go at 15, I only watched the highlights. I personally think he's a much better option at 15 than Freddie Stewart.

 

[West Country Wail]

Well done England, solid game. Is the general consensus that Fin Smith will keep the 10 jersey? What about Marcus Smith at 12. Not the biggest obviously, but then Matt Giteau was about the same size and he used to play against the likes of Nonu and Umaga. How did Marcus Smith go at 15, I only watched the highlights. I personally think he's a much better option at 15 than Freddie Stewart.

He's not big enough and we've already had a prolonged psychodrama around 10/12 with Ford/Farrell and later Smith himself.

I believe the general consensus (confirmation bias noted) is that Borthwick's brand of England suits Fin Smith better with his skill set and the pair could rotate as and when. The question will come when Furbank is fit..

There's no denying the threat of Marcus made space for Fin (see last try with LBB fixed on Marcus) and long may that continue

 

[Geordie]

Heard this one : « FG keeps SB in the job. »

Sir Alex Ferguson was one FA cup game away from being sacked...the rest is history...

You never know...that game might have been SB's fa cup game.

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

Cmon England

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

I only use this while I am at work, I have come back to find 35 unread pages of messages on this thread .

Saturday was a good day to be an England fan.

Cant be bothered to read the previous 35 pages what were your lads thoughts on the game ?

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Read pg 36

 

[Rinkadink]

What about Marcus Smith at 12.

Absolutely not.

What should happen is M. Smith should go to bench to cover 10 and 15... or come late with someone like Randall to up tempo against a tired side. Then you just need a 13/wing bench cover in 5/3 split of which Borthwick has many, so just use one of those.

 

[higgik]

Just watched this.

Well done England. We found a way to get over the line. It's a last minute one point win at home, but still ought to be huge for confidence.

I think Fra will be very disappointed with themselves though. They played some dumb stuff and were so inaccurate as to be almost untrue at times. They could / should have been out of sight well before half time and for the first hour at least they looked like they could carve us open at will.

Surprised M Smith wasn't put under more direct pressure, especially given the conditions. Still not totally sold on the idea, but let's see how it plays out over time. F Smith laid down a pretty big marker for the 10 shirt.

Tonight we celebrate. But meaningless unless backed up against the Scots.

(And will SB be moaning tonight that our players aren't fit enough? ).

T Curry was excellent but did look in injury trouble by the end.

My point, when saying not to get carried away with performance.
It was not great performance, but at last the team found some cajones to scrap a win.
Now want to see some more attacking threat, rather than pass, pass, kick in attack.

 

[Scotty]

Yes CCS is only 21...he wouldn't have been starting had everyone been fit. But he's a powerful kid...and will develop his decision making etc...

Is this the first game where SB finally realised, make the subs work for you. Ie only bring a sub on if a player isn't performing or looking knackered...but if players are doing well ..don't change them!

Forgot how young he was tbh.

That is a real skill to know when to change, don't use your subs and you risk a tired team making mistakes prior to being able to change them. Change them unnecessarily and it can unbalance or just not add anything.

He deserves praise for not just putting CCS out there as having a faster defence helped. But it's going to be a balance.

I'm sure EJ used to not use subs then we'd lose and he got ripped apart for it.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Forgot how young he was tbh.

That is a real skill to know when to change, don't use your subs and you risk a tired team making mistakes prior to being able to change them. Change them unnecessarily and it can unbalance or just not add anything.

He deserves praise for not just putting CCS out there as having a faster defence helped. But it's going to be a balance.

I'm sure EJ used to not use subs then we'd lose and he got ripped apart for it.

It's a skill for sure. But it's where the head coach needs to use their eyes and judge what he's seeing. "The data" is only 10% of the story.

 

[Zed]

Absolutely not.

What should happen is M. Smith should go to bench to cover 10 and 15... or come late with someone like Randall to up tempo against a tired side. Then you just need a 13/wing bench cover in 5/3 split of which Borthwick has many, so just use one of those.

I know he's small. From an attack perspective he'd be perfect at 12 or even 13, especially in phase play. So hard to defend against someone like him in broken play. Defence he shifts to 13. England have been fannying around for years with centre combinations, unable to find the right one and often having some bizarre choices e.g Sam Burgess, even Owen Farrell (IMO) was an odd choice. Tuilagi was great when he wasn't injured, aside from that there haven't been many great centres that I can remember. Greenwood, but that was 20 years ago.. Slade is not the answer and there doesn't seem to be a huge queue of centres lining up. Anyway both Smiths need to be in the starting XV, even if one of them is playing out of position. I'd even have Marcus Smith on the wing rather than the bench.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Anyway both Smiths need to be in the starting XV, even if one of them is playing out of position. I'd even have Marcus Smith on the wing rather than the bench.

I don't think that's true at all.

If SB nails his colours to F Smith at 10 that's his choice. I can see what some of the fuss is with F, but it's early in his career and while he came good when it mattered (the main thing), it was by no means an 80 minute performance.

But once Furbank is fit with some game time under his belt, M Smith will be going some to make a convincing case to have the 15 shirt against an out and out FB with an attacking mindset who plays week in week out with one of the, possibly both, wingers and the half backs.

Over time I can see @BPM's fears coming true with M Smith becoming a bench fixture.

 

[BrokenWing]

I've heard more talk this week of Marcus at 12 or 13

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I've heard more talk this week of Marcus at 12 or 13

Suggest you ignore it!

 

[Saintjay]

I've heard more talk this week of Marcus at 12 or 13

Mike Tindall suggested it on GBR the week. Which surprised me he's normally a tad more reasoned and thinks things through.

 

[Which Tyler]

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Dammit, won't embed, sorry - Video of Daly's try - keep an eye on FSmith and Daly whilst the maul is rumbling forwards.

 

[Duct Tape]

I've heard more talk this week of Marcus at 12 or 13

The definition of making a bad move worse.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

We're sloy coming to realise that two international standard 10s complimenting each other in a 23 is a good thing this side of the Irish sea.

Meanwhile in England: PLAY MARCUS AT PROP, HE NEEDS TO BE ON THE PITCH AT ALL TIMES.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Saying M.Smith is a better option in the centres than Farrell or even Burgess is diabolical

 

[West Country Wail]

What's so wrong with having Marcus on the bench?