[2025 Six Nations] England vs France - 08/02/25

[Toulousain ex French fan]

France do have loads of talent but all in the same positions ie hooker, sh, ,fh and 3/4. Props, centres and back row are not as good as Ire in six nations certainly not at the level of SA or even NZ

We are stacked in backrow and centre : Depoortere is injured, Gailleton is 21, Danty is injured, Fickou is injured, Barassi is back to his best with Toulouse after many injuries, Moefana. All 6 are of intl stature, plenty of depth w a good mix of youth and experience. Galtuié and his staff have an embarassment of riches in this pos, what are they doing with it??
Backrow Jelonch and Ollivon are injured, they're first starters. Alldritt is excellent at 8, wouldn't swap him for any other. We beat NZ last November, they had nothing on us in any pos. Same with SA. The coaching standard at Toulouse and now Bordeaux with Yannick Bru is just on another level Galthié and his staff can produce. We will see on Saturday!

 

[West Country Wail]

Who kicks for England at the weekend I wonder?

Finn I'd hope given Marcus' efforts last week. TBH we were spoilt by Farrell and Ford kicking the past few years, Smith and Smith don't seem to give the same level of confidence. Imagine how it feels having Ramos, every kick a banker near enough.

 

[LIONSxv]

We are stacked in backrow and centre : Depoortere is injured, Gailleton is 21, Danty is injured, Fickou is injured, Barassi is back to his best with Toulouse after many injuries, Moefana. All 6 are of intl stature, plenty of depth w a good mix of youth and experience.
Backrow Jelonch and Ollivon are injured, they're first starters. Alldritt is excellent at 8, wouldn't swap him for any other. We beat NZ last November, they had nothing on us in any pos. Same with SA. The coaching standard at Toulouse and now Bordeaux with Yannick Bru is just on another level Galthié and his staff can produce. We will see on Saturday!

All very good players but none for example make the Irish side. Aldritt was very good, possibly WC but now injured a lot and not at the same level of Doris
I said before the WC that you wouldn't win it because of your back row.
The reason you lost that game against SA is because Kwagga Smith turned the game and your don't have an out and out open side

 

[Toulousain ex French fan]

All very good players but none for example make the Irish side. Aldritt was very good, possibly WC but now injured a lot and not at the same level of Doris
I said before the WC that you wouldn't win it because of your back row.
The reason you lost that game against SA is because Kwagga Smith turned the game and your don't have an out and out open side

We lost by 1 pt. Smith was all over the place in rucks w his hands on floor. The ref decided the game, not the SA backrow.
I would'nt swap one of ours against any Irish player, they're excellent but not better individually. They are better coached though and that's the difference, collectively not individually.

 

[LIONSxv]

We lost by 1 pt. Smith was all over the place in rucks w his hands on floor. The ref decided the game, not the SA backrow.
I would'nt swap one of ours against any Irish player, they're excellent but not better individually. They are better coached though and that's the difference, collectively not individually.

I guess with that attitude you have won the last WC and have won multiple grand slams ?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

What a silly thing to be angry about

Charming.

I have plenty of things to be angry about right now and this isn't one of them.

However….it is also a valid observation. The French players are playing in winning teams, riding high on confidence and influencing these big matches.

Most of ours are playing in mid / lower table teams that aren't even challenging for our domestic ***le and we know that even our best haven't been able to mount a serious European challenge in years. A lot of these French guys will be right in at the pointy end of both D1 and Europe. Influencing, winning trophies, getting knock out experience.

Yep, Saints won the Prem last year, but that's very much a case of that was then. Highly unlikely those guys are playing with the same confidence or bravado they did last season.

You might think this kind of thing is irrelevant, but it matters.

 

[Saintjay]

Charming.

I have plenty of things to be angry about right now and this isn't one of them.

However….it is also a valid observation. The French players are playing in winning teams, riding high on confidence and influencing these big matches.

Most of ours are playing in mid / lower table teams that aren't even challenging for our domestic ***le and we know that even our best haven't been able to mount a serious European challenge in years. A lot of these French guys will be right in at the pointy end of both D1 and Europe. Influencing, winning trophies, getting knock out experience.

Yep, Saints won the Prem last year, but that's very much a case of that was then. Highly unlikely those guys are playing with the same confidence or bravado they did last season.

You might think this kind of thing is irrelevant, but it matters.

So what's the solution pick as many Bath or Bristol players as we can because they must be playing with more confidence and bravado.

If anything the players confidence is taking more of a hit playing for England. Consistently losing games and knowing they are on the ropes in the last twenty.

 

[Toulousain ex French fan]

I guess with that attitude you have won the last WC and have won multiple grand slams ?

No we didn't. We have the players but we don't have the staff. Galthié was kicked out of Toulon and Montpellier. His staff is quite inexperienced by Top 14 standards and has no intl experience except for Edwards…Don't worry if we don't win on Saturday the likes of Dupont and Ramos are going to get tired of Galthié…

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

So what's the solution pick as many Bath or Bristol players as we can because they must be playing with more confidence and bravado.

If anything the players confidence is taking more of a hit playing for England. Consistently losing games and knowing they are on the ropes in the last twenty.

Nope. It was just a comparison. No immediate solution. But you have to ask why that's happening.

Yep. Regular losing definitely affects the mindset negatively. Just as regular winning does positively.

 

[BPM]

Charming.

I have plenty of things to be angry about right now and this isn't one of them.

However….it is also a valid observation. The French players are playing in winning teams, riding high on confidence and influencing these big matches.

Most of ours are playing in mid / lower table teams that aren't even challenging for our domestic ***le and we know that even our best haven't been able to mount a serious European challenge in years. A lot of these French guys will be right in at the pointy end of both D1 and Europe. Influencing, winning trophies, getting knock out experience.

Yep, Saints won the Prem last year, but that's very much a case of that was then. Highly unlikely those guys are playing with the same confidence or bravado they did last season.

You might think this kind of thing is irrelevant, but it matters.

OK, so are you really telling me you want the Bath backs (with one of the Smiths in for Russell) just because they're winning ATM? They might be playing well but a back three of Cokanasiga, Muir and De Glanville isn't going to frighten anyone at test level.

Besides, as others have already said the Premiership is a very competitive league and a team in 5th or 6th now could still go on a run and end up in the top 2/3.

Also worth mentioning that Toulouse and UBB have the money to assemble sides like that - it's not like they're all home grown. No-one in the Premiership has the money to do that even if they wanted to.

 

[BPM]

Arundel is back next season with the mighty Bath, so that may be the answer

Well they've also signed Carreras so I think it's more likely Arundell plays on the wing.

I also wouldn't class him as a playmaker. If we want a 15 to play that kind of role, he's not it. I don't think I've ever seen him pass!

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Gloucester in 3rd have won one more game than saints in 8th.

So your point is complete nonsense.

 

[AlRums]

OK, so are you really telling me you want the Bath backs (with one of the Smiths in for Russell) just because they're winning ATM?

Glasgow Warriors can do it to most extent.

 

[spartan32]

That's true.

Well they've also signed Carreras so I think it's more likely Arundell plays on the wing.

I also wouldn't class him as a playmaker. If we want a 15 to play that kind of role, he's not it. I don't think I've ever seen him pass!

That's true. Not sure he is a playmaker. But if we have to take a 10, and stick him at 15 to have a playmaker then maybe better to accept that England simply haven't got that on offer. In which case use the crazy strong and fast lad who boshes through tackles and beats defenders. Then develop other skills into his game. I know having a playmaker at 15 is great, and we'd all like to be just like NZ which Barrett and the like, but we're not NZ, and we've never looked like being able to play that way. So maybe we should just lean into what we are. Play our game well, rather than everyone else's badly?

 

[mkersyshull]

Now I'm not saying the Smiths are at the same standard (yet), but don't New Zealand do this a lot with Barrett and McKenzie?

People on here seem so negative about it, but 2 international coaches have both thought this is a good idea

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Now I'm not saying the Smiths are at the same standard (yet), but don't New Zealand do this a lot with Barrett and McKenzie?

Both play both positions a lot though though (McKenzie 57% fullback, 43% flyhalf - Barrett 16% fullback, 84% flyhalf), M.Smith has only started there 4 times (and only one of those at club level - 2% fullback, 98% flyhalf) - international rugby isn't really the place to learn the role is it?

Like I'm sure he'll do a decent job there but he's a much better 10 and has said he wants to play 10 - like someone said earlier: it's a solution looking for a problem
If you've got two great 10s then you rotate them, you don't shove one out of position to get them both on the pitch - this isn't Barbarians or Lions rugby

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

The inexperience excuse has gone.

Our starting XV has 553 caps vs France's 485. Our bench has gone from last week's 81 to 235.

 

[ncurd]

No need for excuses on this one we're just not as good a team. The issue with excuses is simply the manner of defeat rather than the defeat itself.

That's what annoyed me last week.

 

[spartan32]

Now I'm not saying the Smiths are at the same standard (yet), but don't New Zealand do this a lot with Barrett and McKenzie?

People on here seem so negative about it, but 2 international coaches have both thought this is a good idea

I refer you to my earlier comment. We aint NZ, so we shouldnt try and play like NZ. Now I hope that we manage to pull this off tomorrow, but even if we do I would be cautious about thinking this is the way forward for England. We are missing some key players like IFW and Furbank, and we other players coming on the horizon like Arundel, and that saffer lad who plays in the prem, with the mullet, at centre, who's pretty handy and could play for us next year (both his name and team escape me but I'm sure you all know who I' talking about).

Of course if we get are arsses handed to us then maybe we should learn the lesson.

 

[spartan32]

This lad. Seems pretty handy.