[2023 Six Nations] Scotland v Ireland - 12 March 2023

[Ragey Erasmus]

Even though Scotland couldn't hold out for the full 80, I think Scotland have managed to actually get to the stage of putting in consistent good performances now as opposed to previous one offs mixed in with poor. They are a genuinely good team and play some exciting rugby. TBH I think Hogg needs dropping, I don't see what he adds to the team any more and still seems to think he's Mr Fantastic. The rest of the team seem to work well as a team and support each other but Hogg still seems to be a glory hunter and a bit of a moron. Do Scotland have any other 15's coming through? Unless England and Wales really up their games, I can see Scotland sitting in the top half of the 6N tables for a good chunk of the next world cup cycle. France and Ireland probably still have enough to stop them winning it outright but they are definitely in contention these days.

 

[retired9]

Even though Scotland couldn't hold out for the full 80, I think Scotland have managed to actually get to the stage of putting in consistent good performances now as opposed to previous one offs mixed in with poor. They are a genuinely good team and play some exciting rugby. TBH I think Hogg needs dropping, I don't see what he adds to the team any more and still seems to think he's Mr Fantastic. The rest of the team seem to work well as a team and support each other but Hogg still seems to be a glory hunter and a bit of a moron. Do Scotland have any other 15's coming through? Unless England and Wales really up their games, I can see Scotland sitting in the top half of the 6N tables for a good chunk of the next world cup cycle. France and Ireland probably still have enough to stop them winning it outright but they are definitely in contention these days.

Without wanting to put a jinx on the Italy game its been a refreshing watch for the supporters to see consistent performance, consistent selction and actually managing to get some results and not flake at the first sign of pressure. For the first time ever in the last year or two we have #1&2 in the world now in the 6N, to be ranked 5th in the world and potentially finishing 3rd behind them is no shame at all.

Scotland just need to remain stable, GT has trusted the players and rightly so - we have fielded a strong lineup and its been neither possible or tempting to dabble too much throgh injury to Redpath, Hastings etc. Huw Jones has also had great form which has made him keeping his place easier.

Hogg should have 3-5 decent years in him yet, I don't know what he can do to recover some pace (if anything) and calm the head. He's an emotional player and doesn't really need to prove anything, it's just hard to justify his selection with Kinghorn hot on his heels. If the passes could stick his creativity trumps BK (who is a great long range runner but not got the same mobility) closer to the line.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I forgot to go to work this morning.

 

[OwenPB]

Right, I've a question about the quick line-out that Scotland took.
My only quibble with the in-game decision is that play should have been stopped directly for the re-throw. Players got injured because the linesman & ref didn't stop play directly whatever the interpretation.

But anyway, on to the rule:

Basic Rules of Quick Throw ins

Rather than setting up a 2-7 man lineout a quick throw in can be taken where a player can throw the ball in from anywhere between where touch was made and their own goal line. The ball must travel 5 metres and it must go laterally or backwards.

If an opposition player takes the ball into touch then they must release the ball immediately to allow their opponents the opportunity of a quick throw or risk a penalty. The same ball has to be used that went out of play, it must not be touched by any spectators before a quick throw is taken and a lineout must not already have been formed on the original touch mark.

How is the last part applied/ruled? Do you have to have lined up or been lined up "officially" by the ref? Or does just having 2+ players present at the point of the lineout fulfill the criteria for having "formed a lineout"?
Also, once a lineout has been formed, do you have to stop and check everything is correctly set up (i.e.: form a "normal" line-out) or does a quick line-out become a defacto not-quick-line-out just by the presence of 2 opposition players being at the point of the throw (thus the ball change rule not being applicable).

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Probably the only real controversy was Hoggs non-yellow card for interfering with the scrum half about 2 metres off the Scottish line.

Normally they'd be a yellow all day long - Pearce strangely chose not to even give a team warning to Jamie Ritchie.

Apologies if this was covered earlier in the thread. I've zero axe to grind but the final pass in Ireland's first try was thrown forward two metres into a very strong headwind. I didn't really pay attention to the TMO review of the grounding but the laws of physics dictate that it couldn't possibly have been 'flat out of the hands' so it was a significant reffing error. Generally I quite like Pearce and I didnt quibble about anything else in real time other than one very clear not straight defensive Irish lineout early on.

Just another excellent entertainment spectacle in a tournament that has been successful despite some gulfs in quality between different sides. I've had no issue with the reffing throughout.

 

[AlRums]

Without wanting to put a jinx on the Italy game its been a refreshing watch for the supporters to see consistent performance, consistent selction and actually managing to get some results and not flake at the first sign of pressure. For the first time ever in the last year or two we have #1&2 in the world now in the 6N, to be ranked 5th in the world and potentially finishing 3rd behind them is no shame at all.

Scotland just need to remain stable, GT has trusted the players and rightly so - we have fielded a strong lineup and its been neither possible or tempting to dabble too much throgh injury to Redpath, Hastings etc. Huw Jones has also had great form which has made him keeping his place easier.

Hogg should have 3-5 decent years in him yet, I don't know what he can do to recover some pace (if anything) and calm the head. He's an emotional player and doesn't really need to prove anything, it's just hard to justify his selection with Kinghorn hot on his heels. If the passes could stick his creativity trumps BK (who is a great long range runner but not got the same mobility) closer to the line.

Maybe the Italy game could the chance for Kinghorn

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Right, I've a question about the quick line-out that Scotland took.
My only quibble with the in-game decision is that play should have been stopped directly for the re-throw. Players got injured because the linesman & ref didn't stop play directly whatever the interpretation.

But anyway, on to the rule:


How is the last part applied/ruled? Do you have to have lined up or been lined up "officially" by the ref? Or does just having 2+ players present at the point of the lineout fulfill the criteria for having "formed a lineout"?
Also, once a lineout has been formed, do you have to stop and check everything is correctly set up (i.e.: form a "normal" line-out) or does a quick line-out become a defacto not-quick-line-out just by the presence of 2 opposition players being at the point of the throw (thus the ball change rule not being applicable).

I'm not an expert but will wade in. The assistant ref makes the mark with his foot in the touchline in a kind of theatrical gesture. I assume this act signifies the closing of the window for taking a 'quickie'?

Any confusion tends to resolve itself because a team will almost never take a quickie after a couple of seconds of being in position to take one, because the advantage of doing so is lost as soon as the opposition closes in on the area.

 

[OwenPB]

I'm not an expert but will wade in. The assistant ref makes the mark with his foot in the touchline in a kind of theatrical gesture. I assume this act signifies the closing of the window for taking a 'quickie'?

Any confusion tends to resolve itself because a team will almost never take a quickie after a couple of seconds of being in position to take one, because the advantage of doing so is lost as soon as the opposition closes in on the area.

My confusion in this particuliar instance is basically down to the position of all the players. It wasn't your usual deep-in-your-own-half situation where you chuck it before the kicking team arrives. Everyone was right there, but your explaination of the asst ref putting his foot in the turf makes sense.
Thanks!

 

[General Melchett]

Delete

 

[retired9]

Maybe the Italy game could the chance for Kinghorn

Yes I think that would be a good call, he hasn't had a lot of minutes. Be interesting to see how he pitches it at FB as he hasn't played substantial time there for a while internationally.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Going to watch the game back this evening, it was a good one, for 60mins anyway.

I'd have been tempted to give Gibson Park man of the match solely for the 10 minute period where we scored two tries, the control and pace he brought was insanely good. Hansen turned up big time, I was starting to doubt him a little bit but he seemed to take his game to the next level yesterday with an incredible all round performance, but his defence and breakdown work really stood out.

Reports on Ringer seem positive, I was very scared for him though. Hed had a Stormer too.

Not a whole lot else to say, probably one of our sloppier performances of late but the injuries are a fair excuse there. We look really good and it's hard to see that changing, I don't see us being "figured out" like in 2019 because it's such a well-rounded team currently.

Fair play to Scotland too, that first half was some great rugby, the next step for them is to be able to turn that into points on the board against top class oppo. I was still very much of the opinion that they were a hot and cold team until yesterday but you can guarantee that they'll show up and play now which is a huge step up.

 

[BrokenWing]

Right, I've a question about the quick line-out that Scotland took.
My only quibble with the in-game decision is that play should have been stopped directly for the re-throw. Players got injured because the linesman & ref didn't stop play directly whatever the interpretation.

But anyway, on to the rule:


How is the last part applied/ruled? Do you have to have lined up or been lined up "officially" by the ref? Or does just having 2+ players present at the point of the lineout fulfill the criteria for having "formed a lineout"?
Also, once a lineout has been formed, do you have to stop and check everything is correctly set up (i.e.: form a "normal" line-out) or does a quick line-out become a defacto not-quick-line-out just by the presence of 2 opposition players being at the point of the throw (thus the ball change rule not being applicable).

1. A quick throw is disallowed and a lineout is awarded to the same team if:
   1. A lineout had already been formed; or
   2. The ball had been touched after it went into touch by anyone other than the player throwing in or the player who carried the ball into touch; or
   3. A different ball is used from the one that originally went into touch.

So as far as I know, if two or more opposition players are there, you can't take the quick one as a line out has formed.
It SHOULD have been stopped directly, but I don't think anyone had noticed it was a different ball.

 

[retired9]

Going to watch the game back this evening, it was a good one, for 60mins anyway.

I'd have been tempted to give Gibson Park man of the match solely for the 10 minute period where we scored two tries, the control and pace he brought was insanely good. Hansen turned up big time, I was starting to doubt him a little bit but he seemed to take his game to the next level yesterday with an incredible all round performance, but his defence and breakdown work really stood out.

Reports on Ringer seem positive, I was very scared for him though. Hed had a Stormer too.

Not a whole lot else to say, probably one of our sloppier performances of late but the injuries are a fair excuse there. We look really good and it's hard to see that changing, I don't see us being "figured out" like in 2019 because it's such a well-rounded team currently.

Fair play to Scotland too, that first half was some great rugby, the next step for them is to be able to turn that into points on the board against top class oppo. I was still very much of the opinion that they were a hot and cold team until yesterday but you can guarantee that they'll show up and play now which is a huge step up.

Gibson Park coming on was the moment (in my limited knowledge of the man) when I got twitchy... If they had stuck with Murray maybe things might have been closer for longer but he really shifted things on.

 

[Nofrontteeth]

View attachment 16221

Ooph. Scotland is basically Latin for Irishland

And England wasn't full of Angles! Those same gaelic celts call the English sassuanachs- Saxon men.
We're all immigrants who came over in little boats. Come on you Picts!

 

[AlRums]

And England wasn't full of Angles! Those same gaelic celts call the English sassuanachs- Saxon men.
We're all immigrants who came over in little boats. Come on you Picts!

Not to mention all the French from 1066 and all that in England

 

[munstermuffin]

Gibson Park coming on was the moment (in my limited knowledge of the man) when I got twitchy... If they had stuck with Murray maybe things might have been closer for longer but he really shifted things on.

To be fair Murray did very well. He did what wasasked and don't think Scotland would have really done much. JGP was superb but equally did the role perfectly when legs were tired he upped the pace and that is credit to Faz too for the correct use of the bench in terms of timing. JGP may start the next day and no issue there.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

I still have a query about whether the uncontested scrum laws are open to abuse. However I thought yesterday Ireland didn't abuse those laws as much as they could have done. Surely it would have been in their interests not to have named Healy as a 3rd hooker. Then they would have been guaranteed to win their own scrum ball. As it was Healy did a pretty good job at hooker and it didn't cost Ireland.

 

[g6mcg]

I still have a query about whether the uncontested scrum laws are open to abuse. However I thought yesterday Ireland didn't abuse those laws as much as they could have done. Surely it would have been in their interests not to have named Healy as a 3rd hooker. Then they would have been guaranteed to win their own scrum ball. As it was Healy did a pretty good job at hooker and it didn't cost Ireland.

Would have had to play with 14 though. Not really a fan of the rule, pretty harsh to lose a man for two injuries but memories of Gatland's Wasps run deep.

 

[BrokenWing]

Don't you only lose a man if the player is coming off because of a card?

 

[g6mcg]

Believe this is the current version, so any player coming off due to card is an additional loss