[2023 Six Nations] England Squad

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

If I was playing Devil's Advocate, I guess a counter argument could be the proportion that are 5m where a try is stake against the 140 odd breakdowns where possession is retained in the middle of the pitch to no great effect.

Also, just because a lock-blindside isn't the one jumping for the ball doesn't mean that they aren't still impacting the lineout. Just them being there means that the opposition has to mark them too, thus making it easier for the 1st/2nd choice jumpers to receive the ball. Also, if 6'8 Chessum is back-lifting another jumper then that jumper is going to go 5 inches higher than if they were being lifted by 6'3 Willis.

There's also the matter of what more a taller option can offer once the ball is caught. Mauls are a huge part of the game now and an effective maul can be the difference between winning and losing. 120kg Chessum is going to offer much more weight and strength to a maul than >110kg Willis. The length of Chessum's body would also offer more protection to the player in the maul with the ball than Willis'.

I'm no advocate for playing locks at blindside. Ted Hill would be my choice for this 6N. And I would also prefer Willis over Chessum at 6. But to say that a lock-blindside only affects the 2-3 lineouts per game in which they're actually the recipient of the ball is massively over-simplifying the matter.

 

[LIONSxv]

Also, just because a lock-blindside isn't the one jumping for the ball doesn't mean that they aren't still impacting the lineout. Just them being there means that the opposition has to mark them too, thus making it easier for the 1st/2nd choice jumpers to receive the ball. Also, if 6'8 Chessum is back-lifting another jumper then that jumper is going to go 5 inches higher than if they were being lifted by 6'3 Willis.

There's also the matter of what more a taller option can offer once the ball is caught. Mauls are a huge part of the game now and an effective maul can be the difference between winning and losing. 120kg Chessum is going to offer much more weight and strength to a maul than >110kg Willis. The length of Chessum's body would also offer more protection to the player in the maul with the ball than Willis'.

I'm no advocate for playing locks at blindside. Ted Hill would be my choice for this 6N. And I would also prefer Willis over Chessum at 6. But to say that a lock-blindside only affects the 2-3 lineouts per game in which they're actually the recipient of the ball is massively over-simplifying the matter.

Great post, however conversely a 120kg 6 ft 7 lock is going to be a second or two slower to almost all rucks unless they are right in front of him. A six is also going to be expected at some point to defend outside channels, they is where that extra second of acceleration is essential.

Then you have link play, whilst not as essential as your open side. A six will find themselves more often in wider channels. You would expect most specialist flankers to have better hands or greater pace to not slow the attack up or butcher a pass.

I'd also argue that someone like a Jack Willis would offer better carrying than Chessum or Lawes despite been a stone or so lighter.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Also, just because a lock-blindside isn't the one jumping for the ball doesn't mean that they aren't still impacting the lineout. Just them being there means that the opposition has to mark them too, thus making it easier for the 1st/2nd choice jumpers to receive the ball. Also, if 6'8 Chessum is back-lifting another jumper then that jumper is going to go 5 inches higher than if they were being lifted by 6'3 Willis.

There's also the matter of what more a taller option can offer once the ball is caught. Mauls are a huge part of the game now and an effective maul can be the difference between winning and losing. 120kg Chessum is going to offer much more weight and strength to a maul than >110kg Willis. The length of Chessum's body would also offer more protection to the player in the maul with the ball than Willis'.

I'm no advocate for playing locks at blindside. Ted Hill would be my choice for this 6N. And I would also prefer Willis over Chessum at 6. But to say that a lock-blindside only affects the 2-3 lineouts per game in which they're actually the recipient of the ball is massively over-simplifying the matter.

The flip side is that lock could be half a second slower to every breakdown, get gassed earlier, perform wise in link play due to potentially being slower etc.

I think the argument is pick players based on the main requirements of a position then look at the nice to haves rather than letting the nice to haves override weaknesses in skills central to the position. It's no coincidence that in our triple lock era, we were constantly slow to the breakdown with one lock flanker getting gassed early and then the other also getting gassed for having to compensate.

There is a reason the to me evolved as they did.

 

[Saintjay]

Pundits making a point of saying Borthwick is saying the battle will be on the floor against Scotland. I'll go out on a limb and say he'll go for proper flankers at 6\7. Curry, Earl, Willis two from those three. A lock at 6 is all smoke and mirrors.............of course he'll now pick a lock at 6 and I'll look a tool.

 

[HamJan]

Thats also his own personality and humanisation. He's talked about inspiring the next gen to play rugby and this is a very effective way of showing full buy in to that.

I really don't see the issue here

Agree. This is getting blown out of all proportion..

 

[Geordie]

6 Willis
7 Earl
8 Dombrandt

 

[Reiser99]

Agree. This is getting blown out of all proportion..

It is being blown out of proportion, but it's also a rookie error from Borthwick.

He could easily have mentioned it without referencing his kids or the closeness of the relationship. Any doubt over whether a player has been picked on merit is always bad and undermines both the player and the coach. This regardless of if it's true. Borthwick should avoid those comments when the focus is on selection. I'm sure he'll have plenty of other opportunities to discuss rugby at grass roots and how professionals can support it and Borthwick needs to learn when is the right time to discuss it.

 

[LIONSxv]

6 Willis
7 Earl
8 Dombrandt

Nice Balance

Or even better Would of Been Hill Mercer (if we could bend the rules), J Willis

The point been is that he so many good/great options at flanker it's a no brainer to pick a lock in an area with such quality

 

[LIONSxv]

Squad update

Blamire in for George
Lawrence in for the Daly

V happy Lawrence has been called up

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Squad update

Blamire in for George
Lawrence in for the Daly

V happy Lawrence has been called up

Interesting on two fronts:

1. Daly is being viewed as a 13 primarily
2. George had his head knock, looked completely gone, had his HIA, came back on again for 15 minutes and went off again. Now he's out with concussion... What was the doctor and medical staff doing letting him back onto the pitch!?!?

 

[BPM]

Squad update

Blamire in for George
Lawrence in for the Daly

V happy Lawrence has been called up

Good to see Blamire back in, but it isn't the most inspiring hooking group …

In these circumstances, I'd probably pick Blamire to start with one of the others on the bench and then leave it in place for Italy to buy George a little more time to recover.

IMO, Walker is a better rugby player, but Dunn is probably the more solid option. I think Quins lineout woes have been a little more to do with the locks/lifters than with Walker's throwing, but I'm not sure a test match setting is the right place to be testing (no pun intended) that theory.

Hopefully, McGuigan's injury isn't serious as I'd really like to see him establish himself with England.

As good as Daly's form has been, I'm happy to see Lawrence back in the mix.

 

[Geordie]

Blamire is a work in progress but he could be very good. Hes playing very well at the moment in a pack that is beginning to dominate some good packs...but lacks some consistency (but the falcons themselves are a work in progress under new coaches)
His lineout is improving nicely.

Seriously glad to see Lawrence in the mix now. Hope he gets a chance during the 6n and really takes it.

I think Dunn will start with Blamire on the bench for impact.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Good to see Blamire back in, but it isn't the most inspiring hooking group …

In these circumstances, I'd probably pick Blamire to start with one of the others on the bench and then leave it in place for Italy to buy George a little more time to recover.

IMO, Walker is a better rugby player, but Dunn is probably the more solid option. I think Quins lineout woes have been a little more to do with the locks/lifters than with Walker's throwing, but I'm not sure a test match setting is the right place to be testing (no pun intended) that theory.

Hopefully, McGuigan's injury isn't serious as I'd really like to see him establish himself with England.

As good as Daly's form has been, I'm happy to see Lawrence back in the mix.

Whoever's picked you don't have to be Nostradamus so see the Scots targeting our line out.

 

[BPM]

True. OTOH, Borthwick is a bona fide expert when it comes to the lineout so hopefully that will balance things out a little in that department.

From a Quins POV, our lineout has hugely improved with Lewies and Lamb back and jumping. While not conclusive, it does suggest that the larger part of the issue may have been with the jumpers rather than with Walker's throwing. It seemed to me that were mostly losing the ball in the air as opposed to Walker throwing not straight/over/underthrows, so I think it was more to do with the timing of the jump/lifts being off. Hopefully that would be less of an issue with England's jumping options?

 

[BrokenWing]

The good old days of nepotism in junior rugby. Kids only getting picked because dad is mates with the coach.

Junior rugby?

 

[Noonz]

This is now the squad, yes?

Forwards
Ollie Chessum
Dan Cole
Ben Curry
Alex Dombrandt
Ben Earl
Ellis Genge
Jamie George -> Jamie Blamire/Tom Dunn
Joe Heyes
Jonny Hill
Nick Isiekwe
Maro Itoje
Courtney Lawes -> Dave Ribbans
Lewis Ludlam
George McGuigan -> Jaime Blamire/Tom Dunn
Bevan Rodd
Sam Simmonds
Kyle Sinckler
Mako Vunipola
Jack Walker
Jack Willis

Backs
Elliot Daly -> Ollie Lawrence
Owen Farrell
Tommy Freeman
Ollie Hassell-Collins
Dan Kelly
Max Malins
Joe Marchant
Alex Mitchell
Cadan Murley
Henry Slade
Fin Smith
Marcus Smith
Freddie Steward
Manu Tuilagi
Jack van Poortvliet
Ben Youngs

 

[Saintjay]

Junior rugby?

Borthwick picking Dunn as Dunn teaches Borthwick's kids at club level. Or something like that....

 

[BrokenWing]

I was implying this doesn't just happen at junior rugby…

….cough, Owen Farrell, cough…..

 

[Jimbo]

It is being blown out of proportion, but it's also a rookie error from Borthwick.

He could easily have mentioned it without referencing his kids or the closeness of the relationship. Any doubt over whether a player has been picked on merit is always bad and undermines both the player and the coach. This regardless of if it's true. Borthwick should avoid those comments when the focus is on selection. I'm sure he'll have plenty of other opportunities to discuss rugby at grass roots and how professionals can support it and Borthwick needs to learn when is the right time to discuss it.

It's a no win situation for Steve Borthwick and I think it's probably more of a testament to his honesty than anything else, we all know if he chooses to omit anything like Tom D coaches my kids at grass roots, he will later be accused of doing it deliberately because that's defiantly a huge selection factor, at some point people need to be respectful of full upfront disclosure rather than crucifying them later for lying or being flexible with it.

 

[Geordie]

So team for Scotland..I reckon

1 Genge
2 Dunn
3 Cole
4 itoje
5 J.Hill
6 Isiekwe / Chessum
7 Willis
8 Dombrandt

9 JVP
10 Farrell
11 Murley
12 Kelly
13 Slade
14 Marchant
15 Steward