[2023 Six Nations] England Squad

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Ludlam enjoying ‘clarity’ of Borthwick’s new, no-frills England

The coach’s stripped-back approach seems to be inspiring his players ahead of the upcoming clash against Scotland

www.theguardian.com

CLARITY
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[Lé Ddanno]

LEWIS
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D
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[TRF_Olyy]

S C A B B Y
C
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[Ragey Erasmus]

OXO
XOX
OXO

 

[TRF_Olyy]

OXO

"what does Owen Farrell have in his water bottle?"

 

[Lé Ddanno]

 

[Geordie]

Its good to see the players enjoying the style of coaching....maybe things got too overly complicated.

The plus side maybe players like Johnny HIll will actually show a little of what he can do given strict basic instructions.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ludlam enjoying ‘clarity’ of Borthwick’s new, no-frills England

The coach’s stripped-back approach seems to be inspiring his players ahead of the upcoming clash against Scotland

www.theguardian.com

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Fringe player praising new coach shock.

Presumably it was a different Lewis Ludlam that on Jones sacking celebrated his abrasive approach and said "….but the beauty of the England camp, even though it was tough at times, was that it brought the best out of you". The evidence suggests that for most, it simply didn't. Whatever.

Borthwick will be a very different coach to Jones, no doubt about that. How effective he will be, only time will tell.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Ultimately there is no point paying much heed to anything players say publicly about a coach whilst they are still their coach and the players are still playing. Too much on the line if you say anything wrong.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ultimately there is no point paying much heed to anything players say publicly about a coach whilst they are still their coach and the players are still playing. Too much on the line if you say anything wrong.

100%.

It was just that I'd recalled what Ludlam had said about Jones. It's for that reason that I switch off as soon as the final whistle goes - all you're ever going to get in interviews is the bland party line (for which I don't blame the players, any organisation would expect their people to be on message in public).

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Presumably it was a different Lewis Ludlam that on Jones sacking celebrated his abrasive approach and said "….but the beauty of the England camp, even though it was tough at times, was that it brought the best out of you". The evidence suggests that for most, it simply didn't. Whatever.

In fairness I'd say that Ludlam is also one of the very few players where this was actually true. He always stepped up a level when he was in an England shirt.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Daly out for the full tournament

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Daly out for the full tournament

Was just coming here to post that:

Injury Update | Elliot Daly

www.saracens.com

Three months out - that could be his World Cup done if Malins and Lawrence have good Six Nations/Prem/European showings during that time

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Daly out for the full tournament

That's a real shame. In great form in his proper position.

 

[will311293]

That's a real shame. In great form in his proper position.

Its funny then when he's finally played in his proper position where he was at Wasps in his best form, he performs... odd that Eddie haha

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

That's a real shame. In great form in his proper position.

But this season he has been playing wing and fullback just as much as centre for Saracens. I don't get why people see him as a specialist centre.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

But this season he has been playing wing and fullback just as much as centre for Saracens. I don't get why people see him as a specialist centre.

This season he's had 15 starts:
5 at OC
1 at WG
9 at FB

Last season he had 18 starts:
11 at OC
4 at WG
3 at FB

Unless people now think that fullback is his proper position then he's actually playing significantly less of his proper position than usual.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

But this season he has been playing wing and fullback just as much as centre for Saracens. I don't get why people see him as a specialist centre.

I don't think people see him as a specialist centre, more that he is a utility back with a strong preference for OC. Just because a player can cover many positions, doesn't mean they don't still have a best position and should ideally be picked for that. Daly is more able than most at covering multiple positions. Eg Farrell is not a 12, he's a very good cover for 12 if needed but is not a very good starting 12. Lawes was a good cover for 6 but was not a 6 until quite recently (Even then I think there are better options). Daly was a step further in that his ability to cover positions was even better but I think realistically, he has always been a 13.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I don't think people see him as a specialist centre, more that he is a utility back with a strong preference for OC. Just because a player can cover many positions, doesn't mean they don't still have a best position and should ideally be picked for that. Daly is more able than most at covering multiple positions. Eg Farrell is not a 12, he's a very good cover for 12 if needed but is not a very good starting 12. Lawes was a good cover for 6 but was not a 6 until quite recently (Even then I think there are better options). Daly was a step further in that his ability to cover positions was even better but I think realistically, he has always been a 13.

Agree. I think that EJ and all of his experiments have really put us off of anyone being able to play multiple positions and we're currently very keen on specialists only. But the reality is loads of players can be excellent international players in multiple positions:

Henshaw at 12 and 13.
Doris at 6 and 8.
Beauden at 10 and 15.
Jordie at 12 and 15.
Rieko at 13 and wing.

The list goes on. I do feel that talk of Daly finally playing his proper position as if he's always been a 13 and can only ever be a 13 is just quite reactionary towards EJ's experiments.

We should never be playing someone at international level in a position that they never play for their club (like Manu/JJ at wing, or Curry at 8) but I see Daly's ability to play multiple positions at club level as making him eligible for those multiple positions at international level rather than ruling him out of all of them just for not being a specialist.

Personally I'd consider Daly to be a starting option at 13 and wing and suitable cover for 15.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Agree. I think that EJ and all of his experiments have really put us off of anyone being able to play multiple positions and we're currently very keen on specialists only. But the reality is loads of players can be excellent international players in multiple positions:

Henshaw at 12 and 13.
Doris at 6 and 8.
Beauden at 10 and 15.
Jordie at 12 and 15.
Rieko at 13 and wing.

The list goes on. I do feel that talk of Daly finally playing his proper position as if he's always been a 13 and can only ever be a 13 is just quite reactionary towards EJ's experiments.

We should never be playing someone at international level in a position that they never play for their club (like Manu/JJ at wing, or Curry at 8) but I see Daly's ability to play multiple positions at club level as making him eligible for those multiple positions at international level rather than ruling him out of all of them just for not being a specialist.

Personally I'd consider Daly to be a starting option at 13 and wing and suitable cover for 15.

We will have to agree to disagree. I just don't think Daly plays enough at centre to justify picking him at centre for England. The sample size is just too small.