2023-2024 transfers

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Significantly,
Nick Tompkins went from one of the best centres in the Prem(/Europe) to pretty **** at Dragons,
Holmes' form has dropped off a cliff as well.

Yep.

To add to that, Moriarty went from being one of the top back rowers in Europe and a British & Irish Lion to arguably not being in a first choice Welsh 23.

Adams has also been gradually degrading since his move to the Blues.

The only player I can think of who's improved after a move back to Wales is North, but it would've been practically impossible for his form to get worse than it had been at the end of his Northampton stint. Think he also actually wanted a move to Wales rather than being forced, right?

 

[Stus7]

Often weakens the players though. A lot of the players who've had to move back to Wales have had pretty serious drops in form when they get there. Alternatively, moves abroad have often reinvigorated some Welsh players; Biggar's looked a completely different player since his move to Northampton IMO.

Most Welsh players don't seem to do well outside of Wales tho. Only including players that have been developed in welsh clubs in that not those that have moved back.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Most Welsh players don't seem to do well outside of Wales tho. Only including players that have been developed in welsh clubs in that not those that have moved back.

I mean... true? But that doesn't really relate to what I've said.

Players who've grown up in Wales playing for Welsh regions do well in Wales as that's where they've always played and those regions are who they have a passion for representing. Players who have grown up representing English clubs have a passion for representing those clubs and so don't play particularly well when forced to move away from them.

 

[Scotty]

Yep.

To add to that, Moriarty went from being one of the top back rowers in Europe and a British & Irish Lion to arguably not being in a first choice Welsh 23.

Adams has also been gradually degrading since his move to the Blues.

The only player I can think of who's improved after a move back to Wales is North, but it would've been practically impossible for his form to get worse than it had been at the end of his Northampton stint. Think he also actually wanted a move to Wales rather than being forced, right?

How long till players chin off Wales because they want to play for the club that developed them. Choose to play for a team that pays 20k a game and play for the club they want to...

 

[Stus7]

I mean... true? But that doesn't really relate to what I've said.

Players who've grown up in Wales playing for Welsh regions do well in Wales as that's where they've always played and those regions are who they have a passion for representing. Players who have grown up representing English clubs have a passion for representing those clubs and so don't play particularly well when forced to move away from them.

You literally used Biggar as an example of why welsh players do well abroad? Unsure how it doesn't relate?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

You literally used Biggar as an example of why welsh players do well abroad? Unsure how it doesn't relate?

Sorry, my mistake, forgot about that part.

Yeah, it's definitely true that not all Welsh players do well abroad and it's probably fair to say that the majority don't (Webb's move to Toulon was disastrous and Faletau can't stop breaking himself at Bath). I was more just using it as an example of how some players do well when leaving Wales but very few (if any) do well when being forced to move there.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Often weakens the players though. A lot of the players who've had to move back to Wales have had pretty serious drops in form when they get there. Alternatively, moves abroad have often reinvigorated some Welsh players; Biggar's looked a completely different player since his move to Northampton IMO.

I agree it's probably not the best thing for the players but it's the best thing for the welsh game. Same reason England only pick players based in England, it's for the benefit of the team and English game.

 

[RedruthRFC]

I agree it's probably not the best thing for the players but it's the best thing for the welsh game. Same reason England only pick players based in England, it's for the benefit of the team and English game.

Isn't the RFU's stated rationale to allow ensure access to players? They could achieve this with their England based players by paying PRL for access.

By creating a pool of players who can only play for one of the four Welsh regions, I suppose they have saved the regions some money and there must be a benefit to the increased familiarity between players. Is this enough to compensate for the effect that we are seeing, or are you / the WRU playing a longer game with the payoff yet to come?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I agree it's probably not the best thing for the players but it's the best thing for the welsh game. Same reason England only pick players based in England, it's for the benefit of the team and English game.

But it doesn't benefit the Welsh game if all of the international standard players they're bringing back into Wales become mediocre players when they arrive there. In that sense it means that the regions likely aren't getting their money's worth and the international side is actively worsening the playing ability of its team.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Isn't the RFU's stated rationale to allow ensure access to players? They could achieve this with their England based players by paying PRL for access.

By creating a pool of players who can only play for one of the four Welsh regions, I suppose they have saved the regions some money and there must be a benefit to the increased familiarity between players. Is this enough to compensate for the effect that we are seeing, or are you / the WRU playing a longer game with the payoff yet to come?

But it doesn't benefit the Welsh game if all of the international standard players they're bringing back into Wales become mediocre players when they arrive there. In that sense it means that the regions likely aren't getting their money's worth and the international side is actively worsening the playing ability of its team.

England's choice to only pick England players is mainly for the increased time in camp and therefore better chances with the national team. Like you said Wales could pay for access to English based players, Pat Lam even said so recently. However unlike England, IMO Wales' main focus of the 60 cap rule is to keep the better players at the Welsh regions not necessarily for the increased amount of access to the national team. Apart from recently Scarlets, although that's gone downhill, the regions have been average/poor for a number of years and that's done to the squads just not being good enough. These players coming back are improving the regions squads and pushing out some of that deadwood that probably aren't up to the standard of pro rugby but there's no better other options in Wales. The regions get money for each player that get's called up for Wales, so Dragons are hoping that Rowlands get's called up as that's more slice of the budget for them next season. Even a mediocre Jonah Holmes is a lot better option than what most of the regions squads have now, when you get to 3rd choice of some positions there's a massive downfall in quality. Is that strategy going to work long term? Not sure, but short term I'm happy with the players that are coming back to play in the home regions so far and the regions have stronger squads as a result. National team is a bit of a **** show but I don't think you can solely blame this.
I do think some English fans don't realise how crap some of the Welsh regions squads are sometimes, especially when there's a Wales camp.

 

[Stus7]

WRU's biggest issue is Wales can't support 3 regions and be competitive at club level imo.

 

[will311293]

Maybe the deal should be as long as they stay at the club that they originally came through then they should be allowed to remain even if contract extensions. Could have further agreement that must release players to regions when called.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

At Glaws:
Hanson back to Aus,
Socino in with immediate effect

News | Gloucester Rugby

The official website of Gloucester Rugby with the latest news, fixture, ticket and merchandise information.

www.gloucesterrugby.co.uk

 

[EdBirch]

Worcester Warriors

Official website of Worcester Warriors Rugby Club

warriors.co.uk

Worcester sign Will Chudley

Overall been rather underwhelmed by the signings we've made this week. Seem to be going for squad depth. Need a new 10 to replace Weir, 9 to replace Hougaard and 8 to replace CdP.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Talk about shopping at Poundland to replace Hougaard. (If he is his replacement).

Chudley is very safe which is everything Hougaard isn't.
IDK making DVDM the 3rd highest paid winger in the league and not getting attacking 9 and 10 will seem like a waste.

 

[EdBirch]

Talk about shopping at Poundland to replace Hougaard. (If he is his replacement).

Chudley is very safe which is everything Hougaard isn't.
IDK making DVDM the 3rd highest paid winger in the league and not getting attacking 9 and 10 will seem like a waste.

Fully agree, i mean he might not be a replacement, might be squad depth as we don't know if any of the other SH's are leaving too but if he is it's disappointing.

Hoping that it's just early days and the bigger names will come later.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Worcester signings seem like depth signings.
Which isn't the worst thing if that's what they are.

Kind of like when Tigers signed McCaffrey and O'Connor would've been good depth signings but we signed them as starters and it showed.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

At Glaws:
Hanson back to Aus,
Socino in with immediate effect

News | Gloucester Rugby

The official website of Gloucester Rugby with the latest news, fixture, ticket and merchandise information.

www.gloucesterrugby.co.uk

If there was one thing Gloucester used to be able to do it was grow their own front rowers.

And reflecting on the Welsh conversation any player (or frankly anyone in any walk of life) is likely to perform better at somewhere where they want to be, not compelled to be.

 

[Which Tyler]

Quote from Bath STH Zoom meeting

"Tarquin clearly not biggest fan of Neil Fissler from the Rugby Paper. Clearly states that Anthony Watson, JJ & Beno are in contract for this season and next."

 

[MikeTheNative]

Maybe the deal should be as long as they stay at the club that they originally came through then they should be allowed to remain even if contract extensions. Could have further agreement that must release players to regions when called.

I wouldn't mind that to be fair. I think the players who made their breakthrough in Wales wouldn't be happy though.