[2022 Six Nations] Scotland vs England (05/02/22)

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Makes me more sympathetic to Cowan-Dickie.

 

[Jakedood]

Makes me more sympathetic to Cowan-Dickie.

Both Malins & Steward missing tackles, Marchant really did need to cover across there, was the only member of back 3 in play. And no backs to push cowan dickie back infield, was very well executed and good play from Scots

 

[Scotty]

Makes me more sympathetic to Cowan-Dickie.

All started from when Malins misses the tackle meaing daly runs in, steward defending for the kick through meaning marchant is the sweeper because everyone has been sucked in. Even so we seem to have good numbers out wide but mis matches becaue. 11 13 15 12 and 22 all were around the breakdown and pretty quick ball lead to it it being a winger vs LCD. Marchant tried his best to get there but couldnt

He still could have done better but sucks to be in that position.

Very well worked and executed by Scotland

 

[Which Tyler]

I always had sympathy with LCD and England for him being out there - it was brilliant play by Scotland to create and exploit the mis-match - both in manipulating our defence, playing with too much speed for us to cover, and pin-point execution.


However, LCD didn't have to commit an obvious penalty try offence - which is the source of my anger towards him.
He had many, many better options.

He could have let Graham catch the ball and nail him on landing - there's a good chance Scotland score anyway, but that's 5-7 points versus a guaranteed 7 points and yellow.
He could have batted the ball back hard - there's a chance Marchant gathers, there's a chance Graham gathers, there's a chance it goes out of play for a line-out or scrum - all of which are better outcomes than a guaranteed 7 points and a yellow.
He could have tried to catch it, and call a mark, and play an exit strategy. Comfortably the best option, but I won't blame a hooker for not thinking of a mark.
He could have tried to catch it, and kicked it out (even a hooker can kick a ball 6m) - in which case England have a set lineout defence.
He could have tried to catch it, and run with the ball (Graham wouldn't be able to tackle him, so he'd make some ground, whilst Marchant can work to support him - he'd probably still give up a penalty for holding on, but it'd be a penalty, not a guaranteed 7 points and yellow card.
He could have tried to catch it, but fumbled the ball - in which case it's a probable scrum, possible try versus a guaranteed 7 points and yellow. This is probably the most likely outcome, despite not being a particularly challenging catch - and far better than what he chose.
Hell, he could have fallen over his own boot laces - in which case it's 5-7 points versus a guaranteed 7 points and yellow.

He had 1 option that would result in a guaranteed 7 points and yellow - and that's the option he took.
Literally the only thing he could possibly have done worse, would have been to let Graham take the ball, tackle him in the air and dump him on is head.


ETA: I know I'm probably the harshest on LCD on this board, at the time and in retrospect - but that's because he took the very worst possible option, which resulted in a 7 point lead automatically becoming level, and a massive momentum shift that was all Scotland needed, just when we needed to be closing up shop and keeping mistakes to a minimum.
He's got 1 good option, a few mediocre options, a few poor options, and 1 gifting the game away option.
I don't blame him for having been dealt a poor hand. I blame him for throwing the table over in response.

 

[retired9]

I always had sympathy with LCD and England for him being out there - it was brilliant play by Scotland to create and exploit the mis-match - both in manipulating our defence, playing with too much speed for us to cover, and pin-point execution.

However, LCD didn't have to commit an obvious penalty try offence - which is the source of my anger towards him.
He had many, many better options.

He could have let Graham catch the ball and nail him on landing - there's a good chance Scotland score anyway, but that's 5-7 points versus a guaranteed 7 points and yellow.
He could have batted the ball back hard - there's a chance Marchant gathers, there's a chance Graham gathers that, there's a chance it goes out of play for a line-out or scrum - all of which are better outcomes than a guaranteed 7 points an yellow.
He could have tried to catch it, and call a mark, and play an exit strategy. Though I won't blame a hooker for not thinking of a mark.
He could have tried to catch it, and kicked it out - in which case England have a set lineout defence.
He could have tried to catch it, and run with the ball (Graham wouldn't be able to tackle him, so he'd make some ground, whilst Marchant can try to support him - he'd probably still give up a penalty for holding on, but it'd be a penalty, not a guaranteed 7 points and yellow card.
He could have tried to catch it, but fumbled the ball - in which case it's a probable (but not guaranteed) 5-7 points versus a guaranteed 7 points and yellow.
Hell, he could have fallen over his own boot laces - in which case it's 5-7 points versus a guaranteed 7 points and yellow.

He had 1 option that would result in a guaranteed 7 points and yellow - and that's the option he took.
Literally the only thing he could possibly have done worse, would have been to let Graham take the ball, tackle him in the air and dump him on is head.


ETA: I know I'm probably the harshest on LCD on this board, at the time and in retrospect - but that's because he took the very worst possible option, which resulted in a 7 point lead automatically becoming level, and a massive momentum shift that was all Scotland needed, just when we needed to be closing up shop and keeping mistakes to a minimum.

I said as much on another thread, Scotland wouldn't be banking on the Pen try and yellow, just the applied pressure to force an error. In that situation pen try and yellow is about the least likely outcome, in the absence of a catch a scrum for a knock on would be probably the most expected result.

 

[Teddington Logic]

You missed one scenario

Attempt to catch the ball, Graham tackles him in the air, penalty to England and possible yellow card for Graham

I think given that LCD was between Graham and the ball and this was possibly the most likely option

 

[MikeTheNative]

I think your just over thinking it. Scotland did a well executed move and put under pressure LCD who then had a bit of a brain fart moment as a result.

 

[Which Tyler]

Scotland did a well executed move and put under pressure LCD

I think we've all acknowledged that, mostly doing so at the time as well.

who then had a bit of a brain fart moment as a result.

That's putting things rather mildly - his "bit of a brain fart" literally cost us the match, by actively choosing to do something unnatural and idiotic.
A bit of a brain fart, is forgetting where I put my keys.
An equivalent of LCDs action is to take my keys and throwing them in the river.

 

[TommiG88]

I hold Malins highly responsible still for that try. I can remember 2 times in the game that a clear mistake has cost us. 1 sliding in on Hogg when he should have done the opposite, and he was over eager on VdM too. Should have shown him the sideline

 

[Reiser99]

Very well worked and executed by Scotland

This is something we're missing from England and why I want Smith. Ford can do it and Farrell used to, but EJ has forced it out of them at international level. I've said before, Jones' biggest lie was talking about how he wants England to play heads up rugby. Yet all evidence has shown a team that plays by numbers and percentages regardless of the situation (with some exceptions in the last 10 minutes chasing a win). Last year's 5 man overlap in the Calcutta cup was the best example.

 

[retired9]

This is something we're missing from England and why I want Smith. Ford can do it and Farrell used to, but EJ has forced it out of them at international level. I've said before, Jones' biggest lie was talking about how he wants England to play heads up rugby. Yet all evidence has shown a team that plays by numbers and percentages regardless of the situation (with some exceptions in the last 10 minutes chasing a win). Last year's 5 man overlap in the Calcutta cup was the best example.

I can totally understand that point of view, England have a Russell type 10 and its being stamped out of him by Jones. It's very frustrating to witness as a rugby fan in general because Smith was one of/the best man in white on Saturday.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I always had sympathy with LCD and England for him being out there - it was brilliant play by Scotland to create and exploit the mis-match - both in manipulating our defence, playing with too much speed for us to cover, and pin-point execution.


However, LCD didn't have to commit an obvious penalty try offence - which is the source of my anger towards him.
He had many, many better options.

He could have let Graham catch the ball and nail him on landing - there's a good chance Scotland score anyway, but that's 5-7 points versus a guaranteed 7 points and yellow.
He could have batted the ball back hard - there's a chance Marchant gathers, there's a chance Graham gathers, there's a chance it goes out of play for a line-out or scrum - all of which are better outcomes than a guaranteed 7 points and a yellow.
He could have tried to catch it, and call a mark, and play an exit strategy. Comfortably the best option, but I won't blame a hooker for not thinking of a mark.
He could have tried to catch it, and kicked it out (even a hooker can kick a ball 6m) - in which case England have a set lineout defence.
He could have tried to catch it, and run with the ball (Graham wouldn't be able to tackle him, so he'd make some ground, whilst Marchant can work to support him - he'd probably still give up a penalty for holding on, but it'd be a penalty, not a guaranteed 7 points and yellow card.
He could have tried to catch it, but fumbled the ball - in which case it's a probable scrum, possible try versus a guaranteed 7 points and yellow. This is probably the most likely outcome, despite not being a particularly challenging catch - and far better than what he chose.
Hell, he could have fallen over his own boot laces - in which case it's 5-7 points versus a guaranteed 7 points and yellow.

He had 1 option that would result in a guaranteed 7 points and yellow - and that's the option he took.
Literally the only thing he could possibly have done worse, would have been to let Graham take the ball, tackle him in the air and dump him on is head.


ETA: I know I'm probably the harshest on LCD on this board, at the time and in retrospect - but that's because he took the very worst possible option, which resulted in a 7 point lead automatically becoming level, and a massive momentum shift that was all Scotland needed, just when we needed to be closing up shop and keeping mistakes to a minimum.
He's got 1 good option, a few mediocre options, a few poor options, and 1 gifting the game away option.
I don't blame him for having been dealt a poor hand. I blame him for throwing the table over in response.

Well argued post. But it's kind of like cross examination in court where a split second heat of the moment action is forensically picked apart as if it was an entirely rational decision.

Bar getting a red, the outcome was the worst possible. But LCD was in a totally unfamiliar and exposed position (rewatching, no other Eng players were close). It was the latter stages of a tight test match where the pressure was on. For all we know he was intending to go for the catch but the ball swirled a little bit causing him to panic. When people do the right thing it's generally because it's engrained through thousands of repetitions in games and training…..and vice versa. It was probably a hero or villain moment with stacked odds.

He 100% cocked up, but I'm still far more bothered why he was in that exposed position in the first place. Combination of some smart Scottish play and our defensive errors. But the cross kick is so common nowadays that we should have had a better contingency. I'm not sure how LCD got in that position in the first place - was he sent out there by others or does he actually deserve some credit for having read the game and got himself in the right place to plug a gap?

 

[Which Tyler]

Absolutely - and I'm not expecting the best possible decision from any hooker caught in that position - I'm just also not expecting a deliberate professional foul that is guaranteed to result in 7 points and a yellow.

As for why he's in that position - that's been covered already - a missed tackle on the right wing, and brilliant play by Scotland. IT's not just a cross-field kick; it's a cross field kick, and mini-break tying in multiple defenders, an incredbily quick ruck and another cross-field kick back against the grain.
I don't think there's a defensive system in the world that wouldn't have resulted in a mismatch / overlap on our left wing with that play - and that if you remove the missed tackle.

Had he missed the ball entirely, and Graham scored the try, we'd all be applauding a brilliant try, created by an attacking genius at 10.
Had he attempted a catch and fumbled it, we'd all be saying that he's ended up hung out to dry and was just unlucky.

 

[Crash Hamster]

This is something we're missing from England and why I want Smith. Ford can do it and Farrell used to, but EJ has forced it out of them at international level. I've said before, Jones' biggest lie was talking about how he wants England to play heads up rugby. Yet all evidence has shown a team that plays by numbers and percentages regardless of the situation (with some exceptions in the last 10 minutes chasing a win). Last year's 5 man overlap in the Calcutta cup was the best example.

I want England to play heads up rugby and I'm going to coach them to within an inch of their lives until they do it -E. Jones, Twickenham

 

[General Melchett]

I want England to play heads up rugby and I'm going to coach them to within an inch of their lives until they do it -E. Jones, Twickenham

If England lose to Ireland and France would that be enough for Jones to get the chop or would he be too expensive to sack? You'd really want any new HC to get this year's AI's and next year's 6N under their belts before the RWC

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If England lose to Ireland and France would that be enough for Jones to get the chop or would he be too expensive to sack? You'd really want any new HC to get this year's AI's and next year's 6N under their belts before the RWC

There should be some performance clause in his contract. I think 2 5ths in the 6N back to back would certainly qualify. A 5th and a 4th might also raise serious questions. It would certainly be putting this as one of the worst world cup cycles England have had in a long time.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Can't see the RFU binning the head coach the year before the RWC, no matter what happens with our results

 

[ncurd]

Can't see the RFU binning the head coach the year before the RWC, no matter what happens with our results

Yup this is why people (including myself) were calling for him to go last year after the 6 nations, sadly the Autumn Nations saved him. He's in to the world cup now unless we lose to Italy and wooden spoon the entire thing.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Can't see the RFU binning the head coach the year before the RWC, no matter what happens with our results

And as always, who is qualified and available to replace him?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

And as always, who is qualified and available to replace him?

and who would want to, under those circumstances?

Doubt many coaches would want to parachute in literally months before the biggest comp in the sport - doesn't exactly give you time to assess the side and make your tweaks and changes