2021 British & Irish Lions Squad

[MikeTheNative]

I think AWJ sums up this squad, the Lions should be about outstanding talents players that want to make you cream your pants just by being on teamsheet together. Moore, Guscott, Hastings, Johnson, BOD, Robinson it should a super team they might not win but they feel sexy.

AWJ these days is a dependable workhorse the entire squad just a has 'probably won't **** the bed unless they play Mako' vibe rather than being exciting.

He goes on the basis that the other captain options are so poor.
If he's not captain then I wouldn't take him which says a lot of things to be honest.

 

[Welsh Exile]

That's a blackmark against your name, if anything

Hamilton and Goode are the biggest jobbers in rugby media

This maybe true but they can still occasionally relay some interesting facts like AWJ being a big dominant tackler.

 

[Welsh Exile]

He goes on the basis that the other captain options are so poor.
If he's not captain then I wouldn't take him which says a lot of things to be honest.

I disagree. I think it's partly that but partly his form is good. Certainly not any worse than anyone else really imo.

 

[MikeTheNative]

A general rule; If your using Goode and Hamilton to back up your point then it is probably wrong.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I disagree. I think it's partly that but partly his form is good. Certainly not any worse than anyone else really imo.

Taking out leadership/ captaincy part, I don't think he is as good a player as Itoje, Henderson, Beirne, Johnny Grey and Lawes to be honest. He's not big downgrade, he's not even an average test player, he's still decent, just not as good as the other options at his current level. In his prime he was up there as one of the best, he's 35 now though and lost that explosiveness he once had.

 

[Welsh Exile]

A general rule; If your using Goode and Hamilton to back up your point then it is probably wrong.

Even if they say 2+2=4?

Tbf, Hamilton couldn't do that kind of maths.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Taking out leadership/ captaincy part, I don't think he is as good a player as Itoje, Henderson, Beirne, Johnny Grey and Lawes to be honest. He's not big downgrade, he's not even an average test player, he's still decent, just not as good as the other options at his current level. In his prime he was up there as one of the best, he's 35 now though and lost that explosiveness he once had.

That fair if that's your view but I'm taking about form this 6N not who you think is better. Just on form I don't think anyone could reasonably say any of the players you mentioned form was way better than AWJ. As I say, on form alone, he was one of the standouts.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Jim is alright at times.
But Goode personal bias is crazy.

 

[MikeTheNative]

That fair if that's your view but I'm taking about form this 6N not who you think is better. Just on form I don't think anyone could reasonably say any of the players you mentioned form was way better than AWJ. As I say, on form alone, he was one of the standouts.

I don't think the other options are way better, the other players just offer a bit more in the playing department. Be it Beirne at the breakdown, Henderson with his carrying, Lawes with his aggressive defence etc.

 

[ncurd]

He goes on the basis that the other captain options are so poor.
If he's not captain then I wouldn't take him which says a lot of things to be honest.

Honestly the real other shout for Captain was always Itoje but he had a couple of bad games in an England team that did **** the bed apart from one game. It was a one-way street since then.

I wasn't being grumpy about AWJ in particular but the entire Lions squad his position feels like many others it was the default one. Its kind of endemic in NH rugby at the moment outside of France and the way its being coached. Who am tuning to watch play? There aren't many and those who have potential aren't selected or are having it coached out of them. Both Ford and Russell for example aren't the players they were 4 years ago, Youngs/Care are others that use to play regular great rugby but now seldom do.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I don't think the other options are way better, the other players just offer a bit more in the playing department. Be it Beirne at the breakdown, Henderson with his carrying, Lawes with his aggressive defence etc.

Do you think their recent form was any better? Lawes aside seeing as he didn't play.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I don't think itjoe ever was a credible option, I can't see how you can choose a captain who's not current captain of either Club or Country and hasn't previously had a long stint as either.

 

[ncurd]

I don't think itjoe ever was a credible option, I can't see how you can choose a captain who's not current captain of either Club or Country and hasn't previously had a long stint as either.

Martin Johnson

 

[Jakedood]

Do you think their recent form was any better? Lawes aside seeing as he didn't play.

Tbf Beirne & Henderson had immense standout tournaments

 

[Welsh Exile]

Tbf Beirne & Henderson had immense standout tournaments

Beirne for sure but he played half of it at 6 so a bit different. Henderson missed a game or 2 didn't he or am I imagining that?

 

[Groundhog]

Beirne for sure but he played half of it at 6 so a bit different. Henderson missed a game or 2 didn't he or am I imagining that?

Hendy came back from injury shortly before the 6N. Benched game 1, came on pretty early for Ryan (25 mins in?) and played really really well. Captained us the next week against France in Sexton's absence, then played the rest of the tournament next to Ryan in SR as Beirne slipped back to BR.

 

[Curls]

OK - just to clear something up.. Wales 2021 6N championship lineouts (won/Total):
Wales v Ireland
11/15 (73%)

Wales v Scotland
11/12 (91%)

Wales v England
16/17 (94%)

Wales v Italy
13/13 (100%)

Wales v France
8/8 (100%)

Lets compare that to Ireland.

Ireland v Wales
7/9 (77%)

Ireland v France
7/7 (100%)

Ireland v Italy
13/14 (92%)

Ireland v Scotland
9/11 (81%)

Ireland v England
10/11 (90%)

Hardly dominated. Yes a shaky start in the first game (against you) but as most likely you probably only watch Ireland games. Never let facts get in the way of an agenda eh

Winning a lineout doesn't make you dominant. Wales struggled to win clean ball to build an attack off. There were a lot of taps off the top under pressure and so called "dirty ball".

Either way I would suggest AWJ will get the nod come test time regardless because he has no competition in the squad.

I just heard Gatlands comments on the James Ryan omission and they are bizarre to say the least. A tour to far in the hotseat perhaps.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Winning a lineout doesn't make you dominant. Wales struggled to win clean ball to build an attack off. There were a lot of taps off the top under pressure and so called "dirty ball".

Either way I would suggest AWJ will get the nod come test time regardless because he has no competition in the squad.

I just heard Gatlands comments on the James Ryan omission and they are bizarre to say the least. A tour to far in the hotseat perhaps.

I can kinda of see what you're saying but I'd disagree. I think we went for a lot of safe ball at the front with Tipuric so I agree we weren't throwing loads to the tail and getting good strike plays off it but I think it's a push to say our line out was dominated.

Agree on Ryan for sure.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

I do think we're underestimating the power of Curry/Watson, Beirne obviously performs very well as a 6 because he's mobile strong and good over the ball if we go that way.

Simmonds is a powerful little pocket rocket too, i'm not saying he will 100% succeed as this is a step up, but if you can get him any sort of front foot ball, and that is possible with a quick game (if you keep it accurate in a way England couldnt in WC final)

One measure would be to look at how NZ play, a very up tempo game, and that will always produce chances if accurate. I hope the players are given freedom to play off the cuff offloading rugby but we'll see if they can develop enough bonds to run the support lines and get timings etc

There's more than one way to get front foot ball, but I would also say it's a big reason why I'd take Tuilagi, because with him, its near guaranteed, and he creates so much space

If they can get front foot ball with a Back 3 of Hogg, LRZ and Watson however, they could be genuinely lethal, and a back 3 as Im a big advocate for... well if you can get the high tempo, it would be a cracking game to watch

To make that work though you'd be looking at Price at 9, Russell at 10, something like Henderson, Daly and then Watson, Adams, Hogg. Warren's not going to go that way is he? Any "quick" gameplan dies on the altar of a Biggar Farrell alliance. Aki and Henderson are decent players but quick accurate space exploiters? I'd have taken Ringrose if that's what Warren was about.

I reckon we'll see better rugby out of midweek side and a total bosh-fest for the tests.

 

[Jakedood]

To make that work though you'd be looking at Price at 9, Russell at 10, something like Henderson, Daly and then Watson, Adams, Hogg. Warren's not going to go that way is he? Any "quick" gameplan dies on the altar of a Biggar Farrell alliance. Aki and Henderson are decent players but quick accurate space exploiters? I'd have taken Ringrose if that's what Warren was about.

I reckon we'll see better rugby out of midweek side and a total bosh-fest for the tests.

Henshaw is currently a favourite for 12 jersey, we'll see if he goes dual playmaker, or Henshaw/Daly, or even Biggar/Ruseell - Farrell - Henshaw

Either way you need to be able to punch a hole or two up the middle to create space out wide, so balance is crucial

This also wont be the final squad to pick from, sadly injuries always play a big part in a Lions tour