[2020 Six Nations] Italy vs England (31/10/20)

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

ye'll

 

[Aristodemus]

Do we deserve the ***le after that? I'm not so sure.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

View attachment 8712

We took what's yours and made it our own lad.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The kicking game could have made sense if your chase was even mildly effective and putting them under pressure. As it was, most of the time we were kicking for the sake of it and Farrell butchered a 4 on 1 overlap to do a failed kick. Had it gone through the hands, we would have had a good try scoring opportunity. Discipline was awful too, although the reffing of "off your feet" was wildly inconsistent (ie the Italians were literally on their knees and it counted as fine, Curry had the ball in his hands and was later driven off and counted as off his feet). Every decision went against us in the last 20.

 

[TheOvalBall]

Well done to all English fans on England winning the 6 Nations.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Thank you I know my typing on the forum was really the key difference for the team.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Thank you I know my typing on the forum was really the key difference for the team.

What, you don't think that our burning hatred of Youngs is what caused him to score those 2 tries?

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Thank you I know my typing on the forum was really the key difference for the team.

Actually laughed at that

 

[BrokenWing]

A win but generally not good enough against a spirited but poor Italian team.
Still could be winners but would feel a default ***le for me.

 

[Which Tyler]

A win but generally not good enough against a spirited but poor Italian team.
Still could be winners but would feel a default ***le for me.

Yup - I'd far rather a shared ***le

 

[ALJ]

i could be wrong but I think they score line is pretty much bang on the average winning margin for England in Italy so can't be too upset.

boring as hell though and the tactics just leave me mystified.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

OK, we won, but not a massive cause for celebration.

I think Ire was the only really convincing performance. Fra was awful, Sco was ruined by the weather IIRC, we shouldn't have let a poor Wal get as close as they did. And the highlights reel from yesterday is short.

Maybe there was a RWC hangover, maybe not. In performance terms I think we're definitely treading water a bit while Fra are clearly a gathering force and were a punch away from a well deserved GS. Sco's graph is also on the up, while Ire and Wal have a bit of thinking to do. Ita have just flatlined.

A 3rd ***le in 5 years isn't to be sniffed at. But I just think we could be so much better - that's not a divine right thing, I just don't think Jones is getting the best tunes out of the talent available to him.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think we'll win, probably a respectable score - definitely 5pts - but not look that great (at least in parts), and probably have a few weird selections.

Nice

 

[Jashay]

So my immediate thought after the first half was that Ben Youngs kept butchering attacks and kicked too much, but it's been pointed out to me that I tend to blame Ben Youngs regardless of how well he's playing so I went back and rewatched the half. Meant to rewatch the whole game, but couldn't bring myself to do it.

Youngs did kick a fair bit, but most were in or near our 22 as clearances. There were only 2 BY kicks in the first half near the half way or in Italy's half. Furbank, Watson and May all made clearing kicks too.

Having watched it back it was mostly Faz kicking it away in the midfield. His distribution wasn't great either. But, since I'm English and thus not allowed to criticise Faz, I have to conclude that it's Ford's fault for being injured.

 

[ncurd]

I have to conclude that it's Ford's fault for being injured.

Well reasoned.

 

[Which Tyler]

I think Ire was the only really convincing performance. Fra was awful.

I'm not sure I understand this sentence.

A lower ranked team beat a higher ranked team (both IRB rankings, and tournament table). The result never really in doubt for the last quarter, and they were 3 scores up when the clock turned red.

Conclusion: losers were convincing, winners were awful.

 

[big ginger 8]

I'm not sure I understand this sentence.

A lower ranked team beat a higher ranked team (both IRB rankings, and tournament table). The result never really in doubt for the last quarter, and they were 3 scores up when the clock turned red.

Conclusion: losers were convincing, winners were awful.

Think you've read that wrong. Old Hooker's post is about England's championship, not this weekend's matches as a whole.

 

[Which Tyler]

Think you've read that wrong. Old Hooker's post is about England's championship, not this weekend's matches as a whole.

That makes so much more sense

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The feel from a lot of the games is kinda like England in 2017 right before our form fell off a cliff in 2018. We have got wins but, apart from the Ireland game, we still don't feel like we are controlling the game and it seems the team almost don't have confidence in their ability to simply play with ball in hand. Maybe I'm reading too much in to it but it seems after England have a relatively good year (2016, the world cup) our form drops quite rapidly over the next year. We have thrown away large leads far too often and, world cup aside, we don't seem to be able to build a lead and then keep the other team out of them game, we keep letting teams back in and putting ourselves under unnecessary pressure.

I'd like to see England try to force things a bit less, we seem to go into games trying to play a specific way with specific outcomes and when that doesn't happen, we start trying to force those outcomes rather than just stripping the game back to basics and doing more of whatever is working. Against Italy when we had ball in hand, we repeatedly put them under pressure. Clearly though the game plan was to try to keep Italy pinned in their half, let them make mistakes leading to scrums or penalties and then use that as a base to attack. It wasn't happening yet we continued trying to do it over and over, kicking regardless of whether it was the correct choice.

I also stand by my previous criticisms of Farrell, he didn't appear to analyse the game at all. He just kicked even when he had huge overlaps or there was a large dogleg he could attack. He is a system player and simply doesn't adapt to what is happening in front of him at all. Maybe he is good at firing up a team and good at following a system but he is not good enough as an international 10. 10's need to have a degree of creativity and ability to make the best choice, Farrell seems to just follow a playbook.

 

[Scotty]

The feel from a lot of the games is kinda like England in 2017 right before our form fell off a cliff in 2018. We have got wins but, apart from the Ireland game, we still don't feel like we are controlling the game and it seems the team almost don't have confidence in their ability to simply play with ball in hand. Maybe I'm reading too much in to it but it seems after England have a relatively good year (2016, the world cup) our form drops quite rapidly over the next year. We have thrown away large leads far too often and, world cup aside, we don't seem to be able to build a lead and then keep the other team out of them game, we keep letting teams back in and putting ourselves under unnecessary pressure.

I'd like to see England try to force things a bit less, we seem to go into games trying to play a specific way with specific outcomes and when that doesn't happen, we start trying to force those outcomes rather than just stripping the game back to basics and doing more of whatever is working. Against Italy when we had ball in hand, we repeatedly put them under pressure. Clearly though the game plan was to try to keep Italy pinned in their half, let them make mistakes leading to scrums or penalties and then use that as a base to attack. It wasn't happening yet we continued trying to do it over and over, kicking regardless of whether it was the correct choice.

I also stand by my previous criticisms of Farrell, he didn't appear to analyse the game at all. He just kicked even when he had huge overlaps or there was a large dogleg he could attack. He is a system player and simply doesn't adapt to what is happening in front of him at all. Maybe he is good at firing up a team and good at following a system but he is not good enough as an international 10. 10's need to have a degree of creativity and ability to make the best choice, Farrell seems to just follow a playbook.

Faz must have been told to keep at it because youngs kicked and so did furbank and may, there was so much kicking. There is no way faz doesnt see and overlap and run it. And if it wasnt a strategy then EJ would have got the message on to change it.

He is a system player but ive seen him play heads up game before even without as much creativity he is better than just kick. I wonder if they wanted italy to run it back at them to test this England defence and prep for tougher games. But if they needed a huge win to have the best chance to win the 6n then why stick to this stupid gameplan when it wasnt work.