[2020 RC/Tri Nations] Round 5: Argentina V New Zealand (28/11/2020)

[Kiwiwomble]

You have to see the big picture. There is no reason why the 6 Nations tournament should be more attractive than our Rugby Championship. In Europe very few people watch the Rugby Championship. It's amazing but it's like that.
We have every opportunity to put our competitions in the center of the eyes of rugby fans all over the world.
Without COVID and the dismantling of Super Rugby Argentina could have become a great rugby nation in 5 years. Do you realize what it would mean to have a competition of 4 big nations? A kind of 6 nations without Italy or Scotland and with only excellent teams with a level equivalent to that of England.
We could even have imagined eventually integrating Japan and Fiji. But none of this happens magically or suddenly. We must make a long-term commitment with the nations that we want to develop in competence. It's not about abandoning them halfway.
It's strange that Australians and New Zealanders wake up so late. It's been a long time since Samoa, Tonga and Fiji should have been integrated into their national competitions (to see in which division). Just as South Africa has historically been able to integrate Namibia or Zimbabwe into some of their competitions.
And again I say it. We are not asking you for generosity, but for intelligence. You won't be able to do this on your own. You are just as far from the center of the world as we are, and you are also feeling the effects of their economic might.

I don't actually know what your asking for anymore, you seem to be all over the place, you know you are in the competition...like this weekend...its what the thread is about, if your union cant get people watching...im really don't know what else you want

no one wants to exclude argentina, everyone very happy to have you in the comp

mayve this discussion could be moved here

Argentinian Rugby

quick question for our Argentinian members Where does Rugby sit on the list of most popular sports? Rugby obviously first in NZ, although suffering with competition at younger grade from what i hear Rugby right down the list currently in AUS, Cricket, NRL, AFL and Football (A-League) all...

www.therugbyforum.com

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Despite the changes that Argentina team is still full of quality, they've got some serious depth to the squad now.

yeah, a bit scary they can make 10 changes and still be considered so strong...not sure we would have as much faith

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Ledesma will put a well-composed team on the pitch. Ten well-rested players will circle the backbone of the team: Montoya, Petti, Kremer, Matera, Sanchez.
As for the 10 new players, 7 are rather experienced and 3 are young people or players whose talent remains to be confirmed:
- Paulos
- Ezcurra
- Mallia.

If I was Ledesma I would have played this same team without his backbone. I would have somehow "sacrificed" this game in order to maximize our chances in a week against Australia.
I think we are going to tire our best players too much when our chances of success are extremely low.

Plus Isa is coming back from injury and is potentially first choice. Maybe same with de Le Fuentes though chocco defended well. Cubelli is injured. Props are just swapping between starting and reserves, that's just 30 vs 50 minutes for last weeks starters. All of the back 3 are experienced players who could just as easily have been picked last week.

so ten changes sounds like a lot but probably not as drastic as it sounds on the face of it. Fresh players and doing it for maradonna should still keep them competitive.

 

[Oliver Madden]

The closer it gets to this game the less confident i am in the All Blacks. The Argentinians will know that NZ are low on confidence and that if they can get in front again the pressure on the ABs will crank up. Sadly I think NZ are at their lowest ebb for a long time. I know they lost 5 in a row in 1998 but they were playing against legendary Wallaby and Springbok sides. This year the ABs have struggled in 3 out of 5 games against two teams who are ranked 6th and 8th in the world. The last game was by far the worst All Black display I've ever seen, they were humiliated.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

The closer it gets to this game the less confident i am in the All Blacks. The Argentinians will know that NZ are low on confidence and that if they can get in front again the pressure on the ABs will crank up. Sadly I think NZ are at their lowest ebb for a long time. I know they lost 5 in a row in 1998 but they were playing against legendary Wallaby and Springbok sides. This year the ABs have struggled in 3 out of 5 games against two teams who are ranked 6th and 8th in the world. The last game was by far the worst All Black display I've ever seen, they were humiliated.

in a similar boat myself, and the tame hasn't changed much...and I don't think that game plan will have

 

[mania]

The closer it gets to this game the less confident i am in the All Blacks. The Argentinians will know that NZ are low on confidence and that if they can get in front again the pressure on the ABs will crank up. Sadly I think NZ are at their lowest ebb for a long time. I know they lost 5 in a row in 1998 but they were playing against legendary Wallaby and Springbok sides. This year the ABs have struggled in 3 out of 5 games against two teams who are ranked 6th and 8th in the world. The last game was by far the worst All Black display I've ever seen, they were humiliated.

i agree fully. but dont worry its a rebuild year. 1st year after a WC is a write off and result dont matter. as long as we're developing and growing as a team.
Fosters got it hard. we're at the end of an era . 2008 - 2018 was a golden era. fosters taken control when that era ended and he's probably not going to be remembered fondly for it.
in the immortal words of CharlieBrown, "winning isn't everything and losing is nothing"

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i agree fully. but dont worry its a rebuild year. 1st year after a WC is a write off and result dont matter. as long as we're developing and growing as a team.
Fosters got it hard. we're at the end of an era . 2008 - 2018 was a golden era. fosters taken control when that era ended and he's probably not going to be remembered fondly for it.
in the immortal words of CharlieBrown, "winning isn't everything and losing is nothing"

I don't buy into that too much, his main selling point was building on what was there...not rebuilding.

I think most people would have said if we were going to rebuild we would have brought in someone completely new. He;s mainly playing the people that have been in and around the squad for a while...somethings not right

 

[Oliver Madden]

i agree fully. but dont worry its a rebuild year. 1st year after a WC is a write off and result dont matter. as long as we're developing and growing as a team.
Fosters got it hard. we're at the end of an era . 2008 - 2018 was a golden era. fosters taken control when that era ended and he's probably not going to be remembered fondly for it.
in the immortal words of CharlieBrown, "winning isn't everything and losing is nothing"

I agree about it being the end of an era. I do have sympathy for Foster because he doesn't have the same calibre of player that Steve Hansen had when he took over. What I would say though was the Argentina performance last time was shocking, that ABs team should have comfortably dealt with an Argentina team playing their first game in 13 months. people will totally disagree with me here but I don't think Scott Robertson is the messiah that the NZ public thinks he is. Yes he's done well in super rugby but international rugby is a different level. let's be honest his Crusaders team got badly beaten by the Lions a few years ago and looked clueless when put under pressure.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I agree about it being the end of an era. I do have sympathy for Foster because he doesn't have the same calibre of player that Steve Hansen had when he took over. What I would say though was the Argentina performance last time was shocking, that ABs team should have comfortably dealt with an Argentina team playing their first game in 13 months. people will totally disagree with me here but I don't think Scott Robertson is the messiah that the NZ public thinks he is. Yes he's done well in super rugby but international rugby is a different level. let's be honest his Crusaders team got badly beaten by the Lions a few years ago and looked clueless when put under pressure.

Scott Robinson needs to coach overseas I think, I would have brought in Jamie Joseph and Tony brown, although im glad the Landers have ended up with tony, success with wellington, Otago (relative), the Highlanders and Japan

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I agree about it being the end of an era. I do have sympathy for Foster because he doesn't have the same calibre of player that Steve Hansen had when he took over. What I would say though was the Argentina performance last time was shocking, that ABs team should have comfortably dealt with an Argentina team playing their first game in 13 months. people will totally disagree with me here but I don't think Scott Robertson is the messiah that the NZ public thinks he is. Yes he's done well in super rugby but international rugby is a different level. let's be honest his Crusaders team got badly beaten by the Lions a few years ago and looked clueless when put under pressure.

Coaching isn't a one person job though. And one loss against the best of england, Ireland, Scotland, and Wales shouldn't be the determining point. It was the lions top team. And the first time a young mounga had ever dealt with defence like that and more generally not being in the front foot. Robertson with the right assistants and the best players in the country may have beaten the lions.

edit: also, the score was 12-3. I agree that it was a dominant win, but the score does provide a bit of perspective. I also wanted to add that I don't think Robertson is the messiah, but I do think more of him following this years Comp when he didn't have all the best players anymore. I also want to give foster a chance though I've always doubted him as any kind of coach. I'm not convinced nzr really want foster either; I think the two year contract was a way of giving gatland the opportunity to do the lions and Schmidt the opportunity to have a break. They are potentially reassessing gatland after a winless super rugby aotearoa though and Robertson's stocks have gone up.

 

[Alex Anghel]

I agree about it being the end of an era. I do have sympathy for Foster because he doesn't have the same calibre of player that Steve Hansen had when he took over.

While that is true, it has to be stressed out the fact that he's been in the ABs environment for 8 years, the last couple of them representing the beginning of the decline. Foster played a big part in that decline, as far as I reckon he coached the backs and we all know how it ended.

The truth is that so far Foster's era is a clear continuation of the Steve Hansen lesser period (2017-2019), marred by poor selections and questionable tactics. New Zealand has probably the best pool of talents in the world, all you have to do is picking the best player for each position, not your best overall players to fit them all in the starting 15.

That's why you have to bench Ardie if Cane starts, that's why you have to bench Beauden, if Mo'unga starts, that's why you have to bench Jordie, if Beauden starts at 15, so on and so forth.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I'm happy about Cordero, neutral about Isa, not sure about Ezcurra but i trust ledesma here. I am afraid, terrified actually, about Boffelli at 15.
I wish i could tell you his defence is bad, but i can't as I've actually never seen it.

 

[The Seeker]

Go Pumas!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

This pitch looks absolutely tiny.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Try time blacks. Coles.

Great conversion.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Conflicted about Nic Berry. On the one hand he's jacked and that must be respected, on the other he's a total pedant who still manages to get stuff wrong.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

And yet he let a double knock on go?

Still blacks are well up for this one

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

And yet he let a double knock on go?

Still blacks are well up for this one

Still manages to **** things up, just takes far longer doing it usually.

Argentina need to score here, very inaccurate so far

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Need to give this 9 the hook

 

[Gavin]

In the second half NZ could start to pull away, which would be disappointing