[2019 Super Rugby] Round 15 (24 & 25 May 2019)

[Umaga's Witness]

I have to agree. I cant recall many games with no skin in where i just screamed at the screen so much. Infuriating stuff. It's a trend tho, not just this game
It's as if a LOT of people just kick the ball when they dont really know what to do, which is ridiculous. Kicking is a tactical decision. Bad kicks are acceptable. Bad decision making isn't, nor it should be.


Side story: back when we were young, a coach of mine made the fly half play as forward for about a month just to make him understand the impact his (poor) decisions had on others.


Speaking of possession, here's a nice article of how different teams fight for it. Interesting read
https://super.rugby/superrugby/news/possession-contest-and-the-disruptors/

...aha, when the chiefs were defending hard under a huge amount of pressure, then got a turnover, then immediately kicked it away, and the next ruck formed by the reds was in the Same position bit on the other side of the field....

 

[Al Bangor]

The Sunwolves lose again, but I admire their fanbase. They have better attendance in Tokyo than most of the other sides that I've seen this season, even though the team rarely wins. And I like the way the crowd wolf howls during the scrums.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Thought that was high.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Overall a fair result. We got lucky on some key moments but so did they.

What worried me the most was the following: You up by 5, min 77, you have a very kickable penalty. Your kicker is pretty accurate and you do not need a bonus point. What do you do?
You take the bloody points. What did we do? We kicked to the corner, goth the line, lost the maul and gave the tahs a last chance.

Bad execution is acceptable. It's not desirable but it happens. Bad decisions are really not acceptable, especially when it comes down to penalty taking.

 

[petite]

Overall a fair result. We got lucky on some key moments but so did they.

What worried me the most was the following: You up by 5, min 77, you have a very kickable penalty. Your kicker is pretty accurate and you do not need a bonus point. What do you do?
You take the bloody points. What did we do? We kicked to the corner, goth the line, lost the maul and gave the tahs a last chance.

Bad execution is acceptable. It's not desirable but it happens. Bad decisions are really not acceptable, especially when it comes down to penalty taking.

sure but remember this is a b team playing against a side packed with wallabies. they did great under the circumstances.
cubelli was mvp again

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I agree, but for me there are mistakes that although terrible and costly, are understandable. Someone dropping the ball, not seeing a pass, missing a tackle or kicking the ball disastrously in the middle of a play. They happen.
These are mostly execution mistakes or mistakes where you dont have enough time to think in order to assess the situation properly and make the right call.

But this was something else. Penalty for us, so no opposition rushing to tackle you or put pressure.
The fact we had many of your second choice players shouldn't make a difference on whether you kick to corner or not. Every team should have ALWAYS a player on the field that knows the right call and this has been pre-discussed with coach/staff.

If X happens, we need to (try to) do W.
If Z happens we need to (try to) do Y.
This is elementary at pro-sports.

5 points ahead, kickable penalty, an accurate kicker on the field, 3 minutes to go, no need for a bonus point.
You should take the 3 points 10 times out of 10.
Only circumstance i can think where you wouldn't is if your kicker is injured or having a really bad day, but that wasn't the case. Or if you have the Lions' 2017 line-out /mall combo. Other than that, take the 3 points.

And again, these are not situations where coaches tell players "see how you fell and wing it". These are, or should be, decided before the game, even the season. Look at Pollard in the Bulls. He knows the call the split second the ref calls the penalty. And he is not deciding on the spot. They have agreed as a team to take the points unless the need a try to win. And the do so dilligently. The lions (v strong line/maul) tend to go a lot for the line. But again, it's not a decision made on the spot. It has been decided before the game started.

The idea of these plans is for the players not to lose focus. Imagine your key player/captain second-guessing his decisions. You want to avoid that. Some teams go to ridiculous lengths to plan these scenarios. I recall a story about the ABs having plans for ridiculous situations like being 13 vs 15, below on the scoreboard and needed to score a try. What to do. Well, they had a plan, i assume a very risky one, but a plan nonetheless.
And no, i dont expect the jaguares to have the same level of planning as the ABs, but i expect them to get simple calls right. That was a very, very silly call.

Cubelli was outstanding. He has a good blend of accurate passing and tempo vs aggressiveness and defense. I like his style a lot.

 

[saulan]

Good half by the Stormers. Something seems to have clicked on attack with them. It's frustrating because they will play like this now and against the Rebels and then will regress the following week.

Happy to see they got Nic Berry in from Australia to ref this one. Eliminates any complaints of referee advantage. Should be doing this from the beginning of the season.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Elton Jantijes has cost the lions so many important games.

 

[FNS]

Are we good or no one plays to 100% this year?

 

[mdaclarke]

Good half by the Stormers. Something seems to have clicked on attack with them. It's frustrating because they will play like this now and against the Rebels and then will regress the following week.

Happy to see they got Nic Berry in from Australia to ref this one. Eliminates any complaints of referee advantage. Should be doing this from the beginning of the season.

When New Zealand teams lose it is never their fault. They must have eat some bad fish

 

[Horacito]

Are we good or no one plays to 100% this year?

We are ok and no one plays 100% this year.

why do we always have to suffer the last 20min? just for once we could have a good one goddamit.

 

[Al Bangor]

The Jaguares are going to be hard to beat in the playoffs. They look better everytime I watch them play.

 

[smartcooky]

When New Zealand teams lose it is never their fault. They must have eat some bad fish

Get a ******* grip... or maybe you've already got one!

The complaint was a 43-6 home advantage in PKs for the Lions against overseas teams. TWO of those teams were Australian (Rebels and Waratahs). Now despite the fact the ignorant regard Australia and New Zealand as the same place, we aren't (even though our flags look similar).

How can a team play for 240 minutes, and only commit 6 infringements? Only Blind Freddy could look at that and not think there is something untoward going on...

 

[petite]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/they...ls-for-jaguares-to-be-booted-from-super-rugby
have you guys seen that ex wallaby kearns says the jags should be axed from the comp cos we thick sanzaar. we have an international team In a provincial comp.
and we will have an advantage at the wc.

 

[smartcooky]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/they...ls-for-jaguares-to-be-booted-from-super-rugby
have you guys seen that ex wallaby kearns says the jags should be axed from the comp cos we thick sanzaar. we have an international team In a provincial comp.
and we will have an advantage at the wc.

Phil Kearns is an ignorant jackass, and almost no-one takes any notice of him

Thing One: This is partly sour grapes because his precious Waratahs got an ass whooping from the Jaguares on Saturday, for the third year in a row,

Thing Two: You have to remember that Kearns comes from the "Australian" standpoint. They actually want the South African teams out of the competition too, and think that "Super Rugby" should be an all Australasian Competition. They want a competition involving five NZ teams and five Aussie team to play a home away round robin with top four playoffs. Such a competition would hardly ever see an Aussie team in the playoffs. They would need to have a protected position like they do now.

Thing Three: Kearns (and people who think like him) are dumb-fucks. They are too stupid to realise that such a competition would be very, very bad for Australian rugby. For starters, where would the money come from? South Africa fronts with the bulk of the money for Super Rugby. - The ARL is all but flat broke.

Thing Four: If the South Africans ever left, we'd be fine, but the Aussies would be screwed. Our NPC would be strengthened with the inclusion of All Blacks. We'd move it into the Super Rugby season slot, and make it a full 14 team round-robin. It would once again become New Zealand's Premier Rugby competition. The Aussies don't have that yet, the NRC hasn't been around long enough to be elevated.

My dear old dad had a saying (some of the English old-timers on the forum will probably know this one)... Phil Kearns is "more full of **** and wind than a barber's cat"

 

[petite]

https://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby...s/news-story/733724dd516e15711c04cc898992b237

now Simmons and ella joined.
it's amazing they get it so wrong.
having one SR team is a misadvantage. a way smaller pool of players. one team is the best we can do now. it's not our choice. we are struggling for money to keep our players in the team.
we struggled on the fist two seasons and now we are starting to get used to it, these morons say we mastered this plan to trick sanzaar.
ella says we make everyone fly too much but the only ones having a crazy schedule are the jags. the rest of the team's visit us once year If so and the do from SA or when touring from SA. it's way harder for us cos our 4 conference away fixtures are 8000km away for the rest of the teams in the conference it's only once.
it seem they are acting as crybaby. unbelievable from ex internationals. it not like the jags ars a national side. it's the other way around we are going to the wc with a super rugby side. hopefully we have included 5 players from elsewhere.

 

[petite]

Phil Kearns is an ignorant jackass, and almost no-one takes any notice of him

Thing One: This is partly sour grapes because his precious Waratahs got an ass whooping from the Jaguares on Saturday, for the third year in a row,

Thing Two: You have to remember that Kearns comes from the "Australian" standpoint. They actually want the South African teams out of the competition too, and think that "Super Rugby" should be an all Australasian Competition. They want a competition involving five NZ teams and five Aussie team to play a home away round robin with top four playoffs. Such a competition would hardly ever see an Aussie team in the playoffs. They would need to have a protected position like they do now.

Thing Three: Kearns (and people who think like him) are dumb-fucks. They are too stupid to realise that such a competition would be very, very bad for Australian rugby. For starters, where would the money come from? South Africa fronts with the bulk of the money for Super Rugby. - The ARL is all but flat broke.

Thing Four: If the South Africans ever left, we'd be fine, but the Aussies would be screwed. Our NPC would be strengthened with the inclusion of All Blacks. We'd move it into the Super Rugby season slot, and make it a full 14 team round-robin. It would once again become New Zealand's Premier Rugby competition. The Aussies don't have that yet, the NRC hasn't been around long enough to be elevated.

My dear old dad had a saying (some of the English old-timers on the forum will probably know this one)... Phil Kearns is "more full of **** and wind than a barber's cat"

cristal

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Read about it. My thoughts. I need to go to 2015, post world cup. We had a pretty good world cup, young team, and even before the world cup the coaching staff said the goal was 2019 and not 2015. We were going to join super rugby the coming year and many, MANY, thought at the time that they might have created a monster by allowing the jags to join SR. First, we were putting all our best resources in one team while the rest of the countires needed to split theirs. Second, our players would play among each other more, much more, than any other team in the planet. Third, both our feeding team and our national team would have congruent strategies. Example: the lions, the bulls and the sharks approach the game quite differently. When u take their players and put them together in the springboks they not only have to adjust to new players but a new plan too. Jaguares/Pumas didn't have that problem. In fact, they turned that problem into an asset.

So, long story short, end of 2015, many though myself included, that the future for the Pumas/Jaguares couldn't be brighter.
I didnt see the likes of kearns and ella complaining about us back in 2016 or 2017, and i dont see them complaining about the sunwolves now, which strongly suggest the problem is not provincial vs national teams, but rather that their team lost. Hypocrites.

To be fair, I still think those advantages i mentioned above exist, are quite important and i think we are still working on how to exploit those advantages. Despite having players consistently playing together week in week out, we have the weakest scrum in the competition for arguably 3 years on a row.

I think we also we overlooked several things back then: new team, new coach, new competition, a LOT of travelling. The learning curve was steeper than we thought it'd be.
Additionally, and this is important, we probably have the most tired players. We dont have the depth RSA, NZ and Aus have. All the teams have a handfull of All blacks, springboks, wallabies and just need to rest every now and then for the sake of their national team. Most teams can afford to do that without dismanteling their performance. We cant do that. Our entire franchise team is pretty much our national team. I think we overlooked the toll this would take on our players.
The same team, starters and subs, will play the most travel-intensive competition in the planet (SR), plus TRC, plus world cup in the same year. I think it's doable but i also think it requires very careful management.

After watching the list of players for the national team, i m quite ok with the selection. My main concern for the world cup is players getting there tired/injured.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

https://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby...s/news-story/733724dd516e15711c04cc898992b237

now Simmons and ella joined.
it's amazing they get it so wrong.
having one SR team is a misadvantage. a way smaller pool of players. one team is the best we can do now. it's not our choice. we are struggling for money to keep our players in the team.
we struggled on the fist two seasons and now we are starting to get used to it, these morons say we mastered this plan to trick sanzaar.
ella says we make everyone fly too much but the only ones having a crazy schedule are the jags. the rest of the team's visit us once year If so and the do from SA or when touring from SA. it's way harder for us cos our 4 conference away fixtures are 8000km away for the rest of the teams in the conference it's only once.
it seem they are acting as crybaby. unbelievable from ex internationals. it not like the jags ars a national side. it's the other way around we are going to the wc with a super rugby side. hopefully we have included 5 players from elsewhere.

A competitive team in super rugby is a good thing. Other countries build their national team by having strong domestic teams; the only difference is Argentina can only justify one strong domestic team. I just hope the Jaguares can continue to attract players now they don't make it compulsory to play for a domestic based team in order to play for pumas.

But I agree it's not always an advantage to have to play your national team in super rugby. Internationals are different and it's harder to adapt and change when it's the same group of players.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Read about it. My thoughts. I need to go to 2015, post world cup. We had a pretty good world cup, young team, and even before the world cup the coaching staff said the goal was 2019 and not 2015. We were going to join super rugby the coming year and many, MANY, thought at the time that they might have created a monster by allowing the jags to join SR. First, we were putting all our best resources in one team while the rest of the countires needed to split theirs. Second, our players would play among each other more, much more, than any other team in the planet. Third, both our feeding team and our national team would have congruent strategies. Example: the lions, the bulls and the sharks approach the game quite differently. When u take their players and put them together in the springboks they not only have to adjust to new players but a new plan too. Jaguares/Pumas didn't have that problem. In fact, they turned that problem into an asset.

So, long story short, end of 2015, many though myself included, that the future for the Pumas/Jaguares couldn't be brighter.
I didnt see the likes of kearns and ella complaining about us back in 2016 or 2017, and i dont see them complaining about the sunwolves now, which strongly suggest the problem is not provincial vs national teams, but rather that their team lost. Hypocrites.

To be fair, I still think those advantages i mentioned above exist, are quite important and i think we are still working on how to exploit those advantages. Despite having players consistently playing together week in week out, we have the weakest scrum in the competition for arguably 3 years on a row.

I think we also we overlooked several things back then: new team, new coach, new competition, a LOT of travelling. The learning curve was steeper than we thought it'd be.
Additionally, and this is important, we probably have the most tired players. We dont have the depth RSA, NZ and Aus have. All the teams have a handfull of All blacks, springboks, wallabies and just need to rest every now and then for the sake of their national team. Most teams can afford to do that without dismanteling their performance. We cant do that. Our entire franchise team is pretty much our national team. I think we overlooked the toll this would take on our players.
The same team, starters and subs, will play the most travel-intensive competition in the planet (SR), plus TRC, plus world cup in the same year. I think it's doable but i also think it requires very careful management.

After watching the list of players for the national team, i m quite ok with the selection. My main concern for the world cup is players getting there tired/injured.

When you put it like that....

Maybe just send second string teams for your away games in rugby championship.

Even then, if you play quarters, semis, and final in super rugby it is going to be tough.