[2019 Six Nations] Ireland vs England (02/02/2019)

[TommiG88]

I'm not too disheartened.... but enjoy seeing the doom and gloom on here.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't think its as bad as being made out. I see Slade, Daly and the flankers as weak spots but I'm not more or less confident of a win than I was an hour ago.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think its as bad as being made out. I see Slade, Daly and the flankers as weak spots but I'm not more or less confident of a win than I was an hour ago.

How are the flankers weak spots?
Comfortably the best options available, only improvement would be Underhill coming in at 6

 

[curtbob7]

How are the flankers weak spots?
Comfortably the best options available, only improvement would be Underhill coming in at 6

Yeah our best options with Underhill but still, compared to Ireland's quality and depth there they will target our back-row as a weak spot.

Ireland have stronger individuals in both flanker positions and as a unit their back-row is leagues ahead of ours, they have played together for years and train with one another week-in, week-out.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I have a bad feeling we're going to see Faz, Tuilagi, Slade midfield.

Any chance you could give me a heads up on this weekend's lottery numbers?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah our best options with Underhill but still, compared to Ireland's quality and depth there they will target our back-row as a weak spot.

Ireland have stronger individuals in both flanker positions and as a unit their back-row is leagues ahead of ours, they have played together for years and train with one another week-in, week-out.

Meh, Stander was terrible last time I watched him for Munster, Curry is better than whoever they can play at 7.
POM is better than Wilson but he's arguably the best 6 in the world so that's no major sleight.
It's as good a backrow as England have fielded in......hell, since the holy trinity, probably.

I interpreted his comments as our flankers are weak choices not that their backrow is a better unit than ours.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

How are the flankers weak spots?
Comfortably the best options available, only improvement would be Underhill coming in at 6

Its more that they don't match up to ours, POM and Van der Flier are leagues ahead and we have SOB off the bench. Underhill (Presume he's injured) would be a huge improvement, he's a guy who has the tools to nullify a lot of the Irish backrow strengths.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Its more that they don't match up to ours, POM and Van der Flier are leagues ahead and we have SOB off the bench. Underhill (Presume he's injured) would be a huge improvement, he's a guy who has the tools to nullify a lot of the Irish backrow strengths.

Genuine question: have you ever watched Curry or Wilson?
Curry is as good as Underhill in defence and carry, but better at the breakdown

 

[curtbob7]

Meh, Stander was terrible last time I watched him for Munster, Curry is better than whoever they can play at 7.
POM is better than Wilson but he's arguably the best 6 in the world so that's no major sleight.
It's as good a backrow as England have fielded in......hell, since the holy trinity, probably.

I interpreted his comments as our flankers are weak choices not that their backrow is a better unit than ours.

Strong statement. I Hope he plays a blinder and backs you up.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

How are the flankers weak spots?
Comfortably the best options available, only improvement would be Underhill coming in at 6

Yeah really feel for Underhill. This would have been a great chance for him to show that he can live with the best.

Brad the Saviour's not really happening is it?

It's as good a backrow as England have fielded in......hell, since the holy trinity, probably.

Ah, Wood, Robshaw and a fit Binny. Those were the days.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Strong statement. I Hope he plays a blinder and backs you up.

Statistically the best openside in the country despite missing two months through injury,
Has the record for most turnovers in a game,
He's been a dominant force at every level he's played up to and including international level.

Feel like people have forgotten how good he is because he was injured in the autumn.

 

[curtbob7]

Statistically the best openside in the country despite missing two months through injury,
Has the record for most turnovers in a game,
He's been a dominant force at every level he's played up to and including international level.

Feel like people have forgotten how good he is because he was injured in the autumn.

Havent forgot how good he is. He is our best 7. Just know Ireland have serious depth, experience and quality at 7 and to say hes better than all of them, in my opinion, is premature.

 

[Amiga500]

Elliot Daly vs Robbie Henshaw
Jonny May vs Keith Earls
Henry Slade vs Garry Ringrose
Manu Tuiagi vs Bundee Aki
Jack Nowell vs Jacob Stockdale
Owen Farrell vs Johnathan Sexton
Ben Youngs vs Conor Murray

Mako Vunipola vs Cian Healy
Jamie George vs Rory Best
Kyle Sinckler vs Tadhg Furlong
Maro Itoje vs Devin Toner
George Kruis vs James Ryan
Mark Wilson vs Peter O'Mahony
Tom Curry vs John Van Der Flier
Billy Vunipola vs CJ Stander


When I compare across the teams, I see very few Englishmen I'd select in my composite team... A few tight calls, but can't see one where I'd definitely pick white over green. If Big BV had played a bit more, I'd likely take him , but other than that.

 

[McTallshort]

Ah, Wood, Robshaw and a fit Binny. Those were the days.

Not as good as Jones, Hazell and Worsley..2005 v Wales

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Genuine question: have you ever watched Curry or Wilson?
Curry is as good as Underhill in defence and carry, but better at the breakdown

Watched Curry in the South African tour and that mad Baabaas game which I discount, he did ok, I thought Kolisi fairly comfortably got the better of him and he wasn't noticeably better when SA rotated which is fair enough. I haven't seen him for Sale but Sale don't really play any rugby at a high enough level that would make me think he's better than Van der Flier who's shooting the lights out for Leinster and Ireland this season and has been a very positive contributor for both sides since 2016 and been part of all the success in that period. I'd also describe VdF as being as being as good as Underhill in defence and carry and better at the breakdown without the ball and he's almost almost as good as Underhill when rucking offensively which is what I think sets Underhill apart from a lot of competition and is something I definitely didn't see from Curry in SA. I strongly doubt Curry would make a Leinster 23 with VdF, SOB and Leavy available, not that that's a huge deal.

I've seen Wilson but I only have half watched a few Newcastle champions cup games, and he's never massively stood out in an England shirt imo, and yeah, we're comparing him to POM here. And again, he'd probably be 3rd/4th choice for Ireland behind POM, Ruddock and maybe SOB.

It is a good English backrow but I rate Ireland's as the best in the world along with NZ's when they have Cane, its definitely an are Ireland will be targetting come Saturday and one I'd expect will pay dividends.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Elliot Daly vs Robbie Henshaw
Jonny May vs Keith Earls
Henry Slade vs Garry Ringrose
Manu Tuiagi vs Bundee Aki
Jack Nowell vs Jacob Stockdale
Owen Farrell vs Johnathan Sexton
Ben Youngs vs Conor Murray

Mako Vunipola vs Cian Healy
Jamie George vs Rory Best
Kyle Sinckler vs Tadhg Furlong
Maro Itoje vs Devin Toner
George Kruis vs James Ryan
Mark Wilson vs Peter O'Mahony
Tom Curry vs John Van Der Flier
Billy Vunipola vs CJ Stander


When I compare across the teams, I see very few Englishmen I'd select in my composite team... A few tight calls, but can't see one where I'd definitely pick white over green. If Big BV had played a bit more, I'd likely take him , but other than that.

I'd have Maro over Giraffeman, and May over Earls probably. Binny maybe, like you say if he was at fitness yes

Daly Vs Henshaw though, how the **** do you make that choice? Which centre do you want at fullback?

(Obviously Slade over Ringpiece goes without saying)

 

[Jakedood]

A few things to spite the doom and gloom around that England team

1) That backrow has the best balance in at least 10 years for England, with breakdown nous, mobility, power, and grit amongst the three members

2) Ireland base most of their kicking game around Murray's box kicks, sending them down the channel 5 metres or so from touch, meaning that in most instances it will be the wings rather than the full back taking the high balls. Though still Daly will have to step up come game time

3) Tuilagi at 12 is something I've only personally seen once, when playing alongside O'Driscoll in a Lions tour game in Australia. He was simply magnificent there, if Slade runs good supporting lines, we could see a couple of deft offloads. And if England do want to go wide, they'll be able to simply slip it behind him to Slade, and who better to hold the defensive line from drifting?

I think Eddie has done well here, admittedly I may still have started Brown at Full back, but I dont think Daly being there is quite the monstrosity it's being made out to be

 

[curtbob7]

Elliot Daly vs Robbie Henshaw Henshaw
Jonny May vs Keith Earls Close but probs Earls
Henry Slade vs Garry Ringrose Ringrose
Manu Tuiagi vs Bundee Aki Silly really, ones a 12, ones a 13. Aki
Jack Nowell vs Jacob Stockdale Stockdale
Owen Farrell vs Johnathan Sexton Sexton
Ben Youngs vs Conor Murray Murray

Mako Vunipola vs Cian Healy Healy, just.
Jamie George vs Rory Best Close, Best.
Kyle Sinckler vs Tadhg Furlong Furlong by a mile.
Maro Itoje vs Devin Toner Itoje
George Kruis vs James Ryan Ryan
Mark Wilson vs Peter O'Mahony O'Mahony
Tom Curry vs John Van Der Flier Very close but Van Der Flier currently.
Billy Vunipola vs CJ Stander again close but Billy.


When I compare across the teams, I see very few Englishmen I'd select in my composite team... A few tight calls, but can't see one where I'd definitely pick white over green. If Big BV had played a bit more, I'd likely take him , but other than that.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ay?
Curry got the better of kolisi in pretty much every exchange

 

[Amiga500]

Daly Vs Henshaw though, how the **** do you make that choice? Which centre do you want at fullback?

Toner is awkward, but effective, Itoje is a disciplinary disaster.

Henshaw has played many, many games at FB for Connacht in the past - he's not green to the role - and he was a class operator when playing at full back too.

(And kudos for getting Alpha agitated.)