[2018 Super Rugby] Round 18: 6-7 July 2018

[unrated]

I probably went a bit overboard .
But i have to apologize for the horrendous spelling in my previous post, its all over the place and was typed in a big rush.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Wow, seriously Jag's fans. So much negativity around the referee and no blame towards your own guys?? It's as if you've become South Africans...

No mentioning the clear obstruction for Sanchez's try, or the many off the ball stuff as usual by your guys. Just the ref?

Intentional neck-roll? yeah I don't buy that. The Bulls player was trying to get the Jag player out of the way, and when he first made contact with the Jag player his arms was around his chest and as he was clearing, his arms moved upwards towards his neck and by then the movement was nearly completed. You got the penalty, which was a very fair call.

And the TMO was spot on with all his calls. Maybe your emotions are getting the best of you now that you are so close to the playoffs.

But congrats to the Bulls for beating Argentina! This after that smashing they got in Argentina. And the Bulls showed all the other teams how to play against the Jags going forward. There are certain rucks where the Jags don't commit defenders, and that's when the opposition should pounce and ruck over the ball. They should look at Creevy and Lavanini and whether they are close to the rucks. If they are out wide, then go for the turnover.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Both are not mutually exclusive. We dropped be ball, clearly, but even then we could have had a chance with a fair ref. Hard to do that when the ref awards advantages and then forgets about them or when opposition is allowed to tackle with no arms using shoulder to the head.

The cherry picking and bias in your post speaks volumes. Then again, we're not that many here and we know each other reasonably well, so i shouldn't be surprised.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Both are not mutually exclusive. We dropped be ball, clearly, but even then we could have had a chance with a fair ref. Hard to do that when the ref awards advantages and then forgets about them or when opposition is allowed to tackle with no arms using shoulder to the head.

The cherry picking and bias in your post speaks volumes. Then again, we're not that many here and we know each other reasonably well, so i shouldn't be surprised.

Ugh, okay, keep on attacking me like you usually do.

So I guess the whole system in South Africa is a farce, our referees, our TMO's, the AR's, basically, everyone with eyes... The 2 tries we scored where the TMO was called upon, in both instances the ball went backwards, and we saw it from different angles. Really don't understand why this is an issue, coming from someone in the Jaguares camp. Have you seen the poor communication and video footage when games are played in Argentina?? It's absolutely pathetic.

But yeah, keep on trucking man. You lost, now go cry in the corner.

 

[argie]

Cry???. Open your eyes man. We are happy.

Jaguares are into playoffs for first time.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Ugh, okay, keep on attacking me like you usually do.

and

You lost, now go cry in the corner.

The irony in the two quotes above is just outstanding. The fact that both came from the same poster in a single post is simply beautiful, almost paradoxical.
The lack of self awareness required to post that is on another level.

But i suppose you are right. I guess we'll have to see each other in the play offs for us to get back to you.
See you then.
Oh wait...

 

[petite]

Shame ons South African rugby?
I didnt watch the game so cant speak abouth those incidents but if you didnt learn after three years that the South African rugbynunions are differing entities then you will probably never learn. Its the same as teachinf that one kid that club sports are different than international sports and no barcelona cannot play Brazil in a match.

Shame on you for generalising. And shame on you for thinking that any team in Super rugby would go out to delibiratly hurt the opposition.

dear @unrated of couse im ignorant of SA rugby i dont pretend to know. and ill never will. im just an spectator.
but just think that no matter where a reff does that ridiculous display in argentina ill be ashamed. and ill have emphaty with the loosing side.
please watch the footage of that hit to lavanini and the tell me if these guys arent aiming to do some sort of dammage, at least in the heat of the moment. like bakkies botha didnt deliberately hit on williams jaja he just fell..
so finally shame on who the cup fits..

 

[TRF_heineken]

dear @unrated of couse im ignorant of SA rugby i dont pretend to know. and ill never will. im just an spectator.
but just think that no matter where a reff does that ridiculous display in argentina ill be ashamed. and ill have emphaty with the loosing side.
please watch the footage of that hit to lavanini and the tell me if these guys arent aiming to do some sort of dammage, at least in the heat of the moment. like bakkies botha didnt deliberately hit on williams jaja he just fell..
so finally shame on who the cup fits..

Do you have a link to the full match video? I can at the moment only find a highlights package and in none of those vids they show that incident.

Also, no citings have been made, so it appears that SANZAAR also doesn't have a problem with that incident.

Lastly, if it was aimed to do damage, then Lavanini had it coming with his never-ending list of indiscretions and late/high hits...

 

[unrated]

dear @unrated of couse im ignorant of SA rugby i dont pretend to know. and ill never will. im just an spectator.
but just think that no matter where a reff does that ridiculous display in argentina ill be ashamed. and ill have emphaty with the loosing side.
please watch the footage of that hit to lavanini and the tell me if these guys arent aiming to do some sort of dammage, at least in the heat of the moment. like bakkies botha didnt deliberately hit on williams jaja he just fell..
so finally shame on who the cup fits..

I wont be able to find the full match in South Africa due to broadcast restrictions but ultimately i wont be ashamed of my team if the ref fucks up! and i would be even more unashamed when another South African team played in a match with a **** ref and turned out to win. The players just play the game in front of them, its up to the ref to fairly control the game, but again i would not be ashamed of my team if a ref screwed up multiple calls and it turns out they won.


I didnt see the hit on Lavinini and if someone could point our the video i would appreciate it, but everyone who has played rugby knows that you sometimes want to tackle your opposite number as bloody hard as you can. But i dont think that any Super rugby team would plan to hurt another Super rugby team, he might have been the player who in the moment decided to hurt him but it would not have been a plan of the team.

Why have you Argentinians become so aggressive and self defensive the last few weeks? I know the competition is heating up but damn its still gonna get tighter than this.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Also, no citings have been made, so it appears that SANZAAR also doesn't have a problem with that incident.

Non sequitur. Look it up.

Following your logic umaga's tackle on O'driscoll was perfectly legal.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Why have you Argentinians become so aggressive and self defensive the last few weeks? I know the competition is heating up but damn its still gonna get tighter than this.

I will do my best to be objective, as hard (or delusional, why not) as that may sound.
If you look at our (i mean argentines') posts here over the last 2 year, we consistently blamed ourselves, even when evidence suggested the ref was biased against us. Look back the 2015 and 2016. We destroyed ourselves with comments about performance, planning, you name it. Hardly ever we blamed the ref.
So why now? Well, i believe the answer is twofold. First, in the first two seasons we had no chance of qualifying, now we do. The closer you are to "the margin", the more important margin calls become. Second, i sincerely believe this game was outstanding in terms of refereeing. It was simply unbelievable. Just ask yourself this: without using google, how many times have you seen a ref "forget" about giving a penalty advantage while you had the ball in your opponents' 22? He was told so by our captain, to no avail.

I can understand the ref missing something, it happens. But all the things above were pointed out and reviewed by the TMO
1) Two knock one that ended up in tries
2) Neck roll
3) Shoulder to head

plus forgetting an advantage. Those are 5 big calls (1 yc, 1 yc/rc, two tries, and one penalty for us 5 yds away from their in goal), all of which went the bulls way and controversially so.

All of them were reviewed. That's what we cannot understand. Mistake is when you do not see something. That was not the case here. They saw what happened, they just considered it not relevant. That's what was so infuriating.

The aggressiveness is quite mild things considering, given that the Sharks lost later. Had we been on the fence because of this, people would have exploded.

In case you are interested in eliminating my/our bias, do the following: go to any rugby portal and read the comments from non-Argentine people. It's not me, people who watch the game tend to agree. The ref played a big role.

I cannot watch Jaguares/Pumas with argentine commentators because i hate their bias. I do a conscious effort to be as objective as I can. I sincerely think this ain't my bias talking.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I will do my best to be objective, as hard (or delusional, why not) as that may sound.
If you look at our (i mean argentines') posts here over the last 2 year, we consistently blamed ourselves, even when evidence suggested the ref was biased against us. Look back the 2015 and 2016. We destroyed ourselves with comments about performance, planning, you name it. Hardly ever we blamed the ref.
So why now? Well, i believe the answer is twofold. First, in the first two seasons we had no chance of qualifying, now we do. The closer you are to "the margin", the more important margin calls become. Second, i sincerely believe this game was outstanding in terms of refereeing. It was simply unbelievable. Just ask yourself this: without using google, how many times have you seen a ref "forget" about giving a penalty advantage while you had the ball in your opponents' 22? He was told so by our captain, to no avail.

I can understand the ref missing something, it happens. But all the things above were pointed out and reviewed by the TMO
1) Two knock one that ended up in tries
2) Neck roll
3) Shoulder to head

plus forgetting an advantage. Those are 5 big calls (1 yc, 1 yc/rc, two tries, and one penalty for us 5 yds away from their in goal), all of which went the bulls way and controversially so.

All of them were reviewed. That's what we cannot understand. Mistake is when you do not see something. That was not the case here. They saw what happened, they just considered it not relevant. That's what was so infuriating.

The aggressiveness is quite mild things considering, given that the Sharks lost later. Had we been on the fence because of this, people would have exploded.

In case you are interested in eliminating my/our bias, do the following: go to any rugby portal and read the comments from non-Argentine people. It's not me, people who watch the game tend to agree. The ref played a big role.

I cannot watch Jaguares/Pumas with argentine commentators because i hate their bias. I do a conscious effort to be as objective as I can. I sincerely think this ain't my bias talking.

But all the TMO decisions were correct though. You might not agree with it, because it went against your team, but it still was the correct calls, even after extensive views and different angles.

Would you have been less aggressive if some of these decisions went your way? My guess is yes you would have. But because all those calls went against you (even though the right calls were made) you now feel the ref was biased against your team.

I haven't seen any remarks or comments from others anywhere else about this game that has jumped on this referee hating train like the Argentine posters have. So I don't get the hostility here.

I invite every poster on TRF to watch the highlights video and just look at the 2 tries the Bulls scored where the TMO was called, and say with all honesty that the wrong calls were made. This video is just 5 minutes long, so it wouldn't take up a lot of your time:

 

[WaterboySA]

C'mon guys, cool down.

 

[petite]

I wont be able to find the full match in South Africa due to broadcast restrictions but ultimately i wont be ashamed of my team if the ref fucks up! and i would be even more unashamed when another South African team played in a match with a **** ref and turned out to win. The players just play the game in front of them, its up to the ref to fairly control the game, but again i would not be ashamed of my team if a ref screwed up multiple calls and it turns out they won.


I didnt see the hit on Lavinini and if someone could point our the video i would appreciate it, but everyone who has played rugby knows that you sometimes want to tackle your opposite number as bloody hard as you can. But i dont think that any Super rugby team would plan to hurt another Super rugby team, he might have been the player who in the moment decided to hurt him but it would not have been a plan of the team.

Why have you Argentinians become so aggressive and self defensive the last few weeks? I know the competition is heating up but damn its still gonna get tighter than this.

i guess i thought a SA ref is a product of their rugby.. and if he cheats in such a way i´ll be ashamed. about lavanini you are completely right but it proves my point too BTW he was allways punished and carded.
i wasnt specially aiming to SA player. it was in this case, and went unpunished. bakkies was an example but lavanini, SBW and many others have done nasty things in a pich.
its strange to me that here you speak like you are heidi! como on guys!! of course its a no big deal but if there where any consistency, he would have to get the red for that. and a call from sanzaar.
at least you could agree in this one.
dont think that i`ve been agresive. apologize if i did. maybe "ashamed" sounds much worse in english than in spanish

if you read carefully my post you´ll notice that i said " in the heat of the moment" i´m sure there`s no conspirasy to hurt other teams. never said so.
in the post after, i spend a long paragraph complainig about the team´s performance and how they lost by demselves.
Guess that we all calm down after the sharks defeat. cos i think most of us thought that it was some complot "like now the sharks win to a non existant stormers and the next game a creative reff leaves us out of the play offs" i blame myself and us for thinking this with no profs. it´s clear that nothing like that happened.
i wrote in this forum how reffs where extra harsh on the first season and extra soft in the second. this season its been smoth mostly, our best in terms of dicipline.
but this game was something else.
@TRF_heineken that hit wasn`t red???? come on! i can agree with the trys not beeing knok-on (its more interpretation) but the constant off side, the hit on lavanini and the neck roll, where outrageous.
finally the secuence where the guy called, advantage then we kick the ball, and he "forgets" the fuking advantage he just called??? what the hack is that? never seen something like that in 15 years of playing and 40 of watching rugby.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

But all the TMO decisions were correct though.

Says who? The ref & TMO?
Hilarious. Those are precisely the ones who's judgement i am questioning and you use them as credible witnesses.
Hope you dont practice law anymore, for everyone's sake.

Ref forgets an advantage, there's video of it, and apparently it's a conspiracy theory of mine. And I'm the biased one.

You might not agree with it, because it went against your team, but it still was the correct calls, even after extensive views and different angles.

BoIIocks. I have no problem with losing. I have a problem with calls being wrong.
I would have said pretty much the same had the calls been in our benefit. I have done so in the past, use the search engine. Different tone, granted, but i wouldn't hesitate to admitting mistakes. I am not like you in that sense so kindly stop projecting your vices onto others.

I invite every poster on TRF to watch the highlights video and just look at the 2 tries the Bulls scored where the TMO was called, and say with all honesty that the wrong calls were made. This video is just 5 minutes long, so it wouldn't take up a lot of your time:

Pfff, that cut is incomplete, but you already knew that. Can't link Rugbypass's video to people without access i'm afraid.
Lets do that exercise when and if the full game is uploaded somewhere.
Again, name me one SR game where a ref forgot about the penalty advantage he just gave in the opponents' 22. One single case.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Says who? The ref & TMO?
Hilarious. Those are precisely the ones who's judgement i am questioning and you use them as credible witnesses.
Hope you dont practice law anymore, for everyone's sake.

Ref forgets an advantage, there's video of it, and apparently it's a conspiracy theory of mine. And I'm the biased one.


BoIIocks. I have no problem with losing. I have a problem with calls being wrong.
I would have said pretty much the same had the calls been in our benefit. I have done so in the past, use the search engine. Different tone, granted, but i wouldn't hesitate to admitting mistakes. I am not like you in that sense so kindly stop projecting your vices onto others.


Pfff, that cut is incomplete, but you already knew that. Can't link Rugbypass's video to people without access i'm afraid.
Lets do that exercise when and if the full game is uploaded somewhere.
Again, name me one SR game where a ref forgot about the penalty advantage he just gave in the opponents' 22. One single case.

Please keep on these personal attacks on me. I dare you.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Please keep on these personal attacks on me.

I see no personal attacks.
I treated you the way i've been treated in countless threads you were involved in and said nothing.
Having said that, it wouldn't be the first time you have a double standard when judging me.

We all remember that one time when i posted some news i had read, quoted the source, but since you didn't like them you went to ridiculous lengths to find a way to use the forum rules to threaten me.

There is no rule that I know of, but fake news can be regarded as spam, and if so, we have the right to delete the thread, and even ban the poster.

You were never intimidating and by now I'm used to your threats.

I dare you.

I'm bloody terrified know. Tough guys behind a monitor scare me to the bone.

You sure can through a punch, but the slightest banter going your way and that glass jaw of yours shatters. Outstanding.