[2018 Super Rugby] Quarter-Finals: 20-21 July 2018

[Durbanite]

Apparently Moyano is out of the Lions clash with a hamstring injury? All the articles I've found are in Spanish, can anyone confirm? A huge pity if true, really starting to enjoy how he plays and it would be a shame to see such a great attacking asset out of the playoffs for the Jags.

Apparently the Crusaders are 18/0 in playoff games in Christchurch, will make the hiding the Sharks give them on Saturday all the more sweeter

Hometown refs are such a bad idea, SANZAR are really foolish if they're doing this purely to save a bit of cash on airfare. Even if each ref is 100% down the middle there will still be accusations of bias and in the other hand, some refs might overcompensate to demonstrate how unbiased they are which could tip the game the other way. Why even leave any space for doubt? Neutral officials during the POs is a no brainer ffs.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Apparently Moyano is out of the Lions clash with a hamstring injury? All the articles I've found are in Spanish, can anyone confirm? A huge pity if true, really starting to enjoy how he plays and it would be a shame to see such a great attacking asset out of the playoffs for the Jags.

Apparently the Crusaders are 18/0 in playoff games in Christchurch, will make the hiding the Sharks give them on Saturday all the more sweeter

Hometown refs are such a bad idea, SANZAR are really foolish if they're doing this purely to save a bit of cash on airfare. Even if each ref is 100% down the middle there will still be accusations of bias and in the other hand, some refs might overcompensate to demonstrate how unbiased they are which could tip the game the other way. Why even leave any space for doubt? Neutral officials during the POs is a no brainer ffs.

I think the referees were appointed as a matter of convenience, but with that said, SANZAAR has admitted the refereeing situation not working as it should and that a review will happen:
https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/sanzaar-admits-tmo-system-is-not-working-20180716

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

@Durbanite It appears so, Moyano's out.

Hometown refs are such a bad idea, SANZAR are really foolish if they're doing this purely to save a bit of cash on airfare. Even if each ref is 100% down the middle there will still be accusations of bias and in the other hand, some refs might overcompensate to demonstrate how unbiased they are which could tip the game the other way. Why even leave any space for doubt? Neutral officials during the POs is a no brainer ffs.

Agree. Even if he is genuinely neutral there are interpretations for which the locals will be used to and the opposition not so much.
As if being a ref wasn't hard enough, everyone is going to forensically scrutinize every single decision he makes with a fine comb.

The home advantage is big enough with your own field, crowd and no travelling. Adding the ref to the equation is just silly.

I don't get what is so complicated about this to be honest. I can only see three bottle necks but they all make no sense

- Cost: i refuse to believe SR cannot afford flights and hotel for QFs,SFs and Final. I can understand if we are talking for all games, but play offs should be manageable. Add two bloody banners somewhere, that should pay for it. These are cents we are talking about. 4Q + 2SD + 1 F, 7 games minus chiefs vs hurricanes and another potential NZ clash, say 5 games. So that is 5 return tickets and 5 3-night stays.
How much can that be.
- Availability: not enough good refs to export from one conf to another. Sounds silly. As an example, just send the Jaco to Tahs vs Landers and bring Angus to joburg, end off.
- Ref's refuse to go for some reason? Find the reason and fix it.

 

[petite]

isnt that justice? how many times has lavanini been suspended for dirty tackles? in fact how many times has he gotten away with his highly illegal grasscutting shoulder charges?
im kind glad really, lavanini is one of the dirtiest players around. awesome when he plays legitimately but a grub.

well he is a moron! and he got carded so many times i cant remember. and probably got away with some of those grass cutting tackles. but thats nothing compared with a deliverate shoulder to head contact. but they did call matera for a every day ruck wich wasnt even called penaly during the game
the performace by the reff in the game vs bulls stands as one of the laimest and biased i´ve witnessed in a rugby pich.

 

[argie]

Just in: according to ESPN, Jaguares' appeal was successful and Matera will be able to play.

It seems so
https://twitter.com/JaguaresARG/status/1019521964145291264

The bad things are:
Javier DIAZ -torn ligament-
Ramiro MOYANO -tear in the hamstring-

 

[mania]

Just checked the stats for lavanini

Lavanini ycs in 2017: 2
Lavanini rcs in 2017: 1

Lavanini ycs in 2018: 0
Lavanini rcs in 2018:: 0

All games excluding play offs.
Facts > opinions, every single time.

except for the stats of how often lavinini got away with it

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

except for the stats of how often lavinini got away with it

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I backed up my claims with stats, you did not.

 

[mania]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I backed up my claims with stats, you did not.

sorry im so not a stats person. all stats need to be justified meaning they always have a context from a certain point of view.
but from my point of view for the few pumas games s ive watched last couple of seasons is lavinini got away with a few.
i dont need to provide stats to know he's a dirty player. u can use all the stats you want to obscure or mitigate his grubbiness. but he's dirty

 

[mania]

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I backed up my claims with stats, you did not.

saying lavinini is a dirty player is not an extraordinary claim

 

[argie]

It seems that there are nervous people who see their supremacy in Super Rugby endangered.
Well, you have to know. A new Sheriff has arrived in the city.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

No dillon hunt which is weird and I would rather have see fletcher smith and McKay on the bench

 

[mania]

Hurricanes: Nehe Milner-Skudder, Julian Savea, Jordie Barrett, Ngani Laumape, Ben Lam, Beauden Barrett, TJ Perenara, Blade Thomson, Gareth Evans, Brad Shields/Reed Prinsep, Sam Lousi, Michael Fatialofa, Jeff To'omaga-Allen, Ricky Riccitelli, Toby Smith. Reserves: James O'Reilly, Chris Eves, Ben May, Vaea Fifita, Reed Prinsep/Sam Henwood, Jamie Booth, Ihaia West, Wes Goosen/Jonah Lowe.

cant believe julians made the starting side

 

[TRF_heineken]

saying lavinini is a dirty player is not an extraordinary claim

Indeed. Found this article too: http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2017/10/04/lavanini-sets-new-pumas-yellow-card-record/

What is interesting, and this won't ever show on the stats, is the amount of times he wasn't carded or cited. But in this article they mention that grass cutter he made on Nathan Hughes, which broke his knee. Infringements like that won't ever show on stats, except as a penalty conceded.

The thing is that the bad boys of rugby will always have a few cards and stats against their name. But it is the things they got away with that remains stuck in people's minds. It might not be extraordinary evidence, but then again, we all know the history so just because a minority few would look past this, doesn't take away the fact that those incidents happened.

Anyway, this discussion can drag on forever, but to prevent the detriment of this thread being derailed, I propose we either end the discussion on Lavanini's fowl play, or start a thread on it's own.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

sorry im so not a stats person. all stats need to be justified meaning they always have a context from a certain point of view.
but from my point of view for the few pumas games s ive watched last couple of seasons is lavinini got away with a few.
i dont need to provide stats to know he's a dirty player. u can use all the stats you want to obscure or mitigate his grubbiness. but he's dirty

That's like claiming that 2+2=5 and that you're not a numbers guy, but that the rest should nevertheless should respect your opinion.
If you are not a stats person, i strongly suggest don't argue about stats.

saying lavinini is a dirty player is not an extraordinary claim

It's amazing. You don't even understand what we are talking about.
Lavanini was extremely dirty, i am not arguing that. No one is. The problem with your argument is that he got penalized for it.
The problem here was that ANOTHER player was also was dirty and didn't get penalized for it.

You said that there was justice in Lavanini being dirty (and being penalized for it) and getting hit by another player (who didnt get penalized accordingly for it).
If you can't see the contradiction in the above i can't help you.

Again, third time, no one said Lavanini wasnt dirty. He has changed, thou. A lot.

What is interesting, and this won't ever show on the stats, is the amount of times he wasn't carded or cited.

That is precisely my point, thank you.
In order to make his point relevant to the issue being discussed he would need to provide evidence of precisely that, lavanini getting away with murder, and consistently so.
As every jaguares fan here will attest, we've all screamed at the tv his name for penalties due to his recklessness, so i'd be very, very surprised if he got away which more than the average player.
He has the label of dirty, so i'd even go as far as saying it would have been more difficult for him to get away with it, but that's me speculating, or making an educated guess.

This is not rocket science: saying it's ok, sorry, "justice", for a player to hurt (and get away with it) another one because the one he's hurting has done something bad in the past is one of the stupidest things ever posted on this forum.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Thanks this is specifically what i wanted to know. Where can one see this current format for the finals being announced/explained (where it says winner of qualifier # plays the winner of qualifier #)
The Sanzaar website just says TBC

Haven't looked for the announcement anywhere, but on the official website they've got the finals draw up now:

 

[SomeOke]

My predictions:
Hurricanes vs Chiefs
Hurricanes have looked a little vulnerable in recent weeks and ultimately the Chiefs have gotten the same amount of wins and are on slightly better form. The calls of outrage to move D-Mac back to FB have quietened a little and for good reason in my opinion, his decision making has improved and he's just as much of a game breaker as always, Ngatai back is huge as he offers a massive secondary boot as well as their second choice being awful (Faauili is a bum), Retallick is back and fit, as is Harris. Honestly Chiefs are just the better side on paper for me and on better form, that said home advantage is huge, I'd say a narrow Chiefs victory, Chiefs by 3-5 points.

Crusaders vs Sharks
This one is really the easiest match on paper to predict, Saders are the complete team as they have been recently, strong back, organised backline, they may not be the most lethal attacking force in NZ, but they have an answer to every game plan you might throw at them and they know where to press where it hurts. That said Sharks are capable of putting up a huge performance, and their side is pretty world class on paper, it would take an off day for the Crusaders and a strong day for the Sharks but I do think an upside is possible. That said, smart money is on a Crusaders to win comfortably by 10 points.

Waratahs vs Highlanders
Another fairly close match for my money, the Tahs have been very vulnerable up front but I'm not sure the Highlanders have quite enough of a bullying pack to take advantage. Unfortunately for them the Highlanders backs are some of the most organised in the comp and their usual route to points is through aerial dominance through Folau, or just a rampaging Nairavoro in general, neither routes should world on the Highlanders. I predict the Tahs will be up for most of the game but the Highlanders to seal it at the end by 6 points.

Lions vs Jaguares
Jaguares are obviously a complete team this year and they've accomplished a lot, they have stars across the back (Delguy, Boffelli, Sanchez) and a very solid pack, but for whatever reason they do seem to struggle in South Africa.
Lions have most of their big guns back and looking good (Marx/Whiteley/Combrink) and have looked a little more assured lately, not a team that gets beaten at home very often, would be happy for the Jaguares if they can manage an upset here but I'd say Lions have it by 7.

 

[Durbanite]

Lions
15 Andries Coetzee
14 Ruan Combrinck
13 Lionel Mapoe
12 Harold Vorster
11 Aphiwe Dyantyi
10 Elton Jantjies
9 Ross Cronje
8 Warren Whiteley (captain)
7 Cyle Brink
6 Kwagga Smith
5 Franco Mostert
4 Marvin Orie
3 Ruan Dreyer
2 Malcolm Marx
1 Jacques van Rooyen

Substitutes: 16 Corne Fourie, 17 Dylan Smith, 18 Johannes Jonker, 19 Lourens Erasmus, 20 Marnus Schoeman, 21 Dillon Smit, 22 Courtnall Skosan, 23 Howard Mnisi

Crusaders
15 David Havili
14 Seta Tamanivalu
13 Jack Goodhue
12 Ryan Crotty
11 George Bridge
10 Richie Mo'unga
9 Bryn Hall
8 Kieran Read
7 Matt Todd
6 Jordan Taufua
5 Sam Whitelock (captain)
4 Scott Barrett
3 Owen Franks
2 Codie Taylor
1 Tim Perry

Substitutes: 16 Andrew Makalio, 17 Wyatt Crockett, 18 Michael Alaalatoa, 19 Luke Romano, 20 Pete Samu, 21 Mitchell Drummond, 22 Mitchell Hunt, 23 Manasa Mataele

Sharks
15 Curwin Bosch
14 Kobus van Wyk
13 Lukhanyo Am
12 Andre Esterhuizen
11 Lwazi Mvovo
10 Robert du Preez
9 Louis Schreuder
8 Daniel du Preez
7 Jacques Vermeulen
6 Philip van der Walt
5 Ruan Botha
4 Tyler Paul
3 Thomas du Toit
2 Akker van der Merwe
1 Tendai 'Beast' Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Chiliboy Ralepelle, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 John-Hubert Meyer, 19 Hyron Andrews, 20 Wian Vosloo, 21 Cameron Wright, 22 Marius Louw, 23 Makazole Mapimpi

Waratahs
15 Israel Folau
14 Alex Newsome
13 Curtis Rona
12 Kurtley Beale
11 Taqele Naiyaravoro
10 Bernard Foley (captain)
9 Nick Phipps
8 Michael Wells
7 Will Miller
6 Ned Hanigan
5 Rob Simmons
4 Jed Holloway
3 Sekope Kepu
2 Damien Fitzpatrick
1 Tom Robertson

Substitutes: 16 Tolu Latu, 17 Harry Johnson-Holmes, 18 Paddy Ryan, 19 Tom Staniforth, 20 Brad Wilkin, 21 Jake Gordon, 22 Cam Clark, 23 Bryce Hegarty

 

[SomeOke]

Sharks side really is good on paper, it's just Tyler Paul and Vermulen that strike me as out of place.
Anyone else really impressed by Bosch this year? I didn't rate him that highly last year viewing him as a fairly basic player with lots of pace (but no elusiveness) and a big boot.
This year he's shown great vision when joining the line from FB as well as developed quite a powerful step, while not losing his kicking abilities. I feel like compared to last year he's flown under the radar even though I'd say he's much improved.
Thomas du Toit has also really made huge strides in not even a year of playing TH.

 

[unrated]

The Sharks team looked like one of the best teams on paper since the beginning of the year. When so many Sharks got called up for the June Internationals they looked even better on paper, considering all those players were involved in the high performance setup that is International rugby. And they got to spend time with Nienaber and Erasmus. But yes i agree our Lock depth does not look good. Tyler Paul yet has to prove that he isn't one of those one or two season players when in turn he will move to a side such as the Kings or Cheetahs.

Vermeulen is good, not great though and certainly not Springbok quality. But JLDP is injured so we have to make do with him though. I do feel that the Sharks kind of needed JLDP to be able to win this game against the Crusaders.

Lastly i thought that the Sharks could have used a potent finisher such as Mapimpi in the starting team in place of Mvovo. But Mvovo is probably more rounded at this point in time and Mapimpi can make an impact of the Bench.

This game can either go like that one semi a few years back where the Hurricanes smashed us into pieces or it can go in line with the Sharks trend of doing well against NZ sides and teams that are considered better than them.

I really think we can win this game as we have done it before in Christchurch with 13 men (One red and one yellow), not to mention that the ref and the ball tends to bounce in favour of NZ teams in NZ.
If we lose badly then it might be a scary teaser of whats to come in the rugby championships later this year.

 

[petite]

sorry im so not a stats person. all stats need to be justified meaning they always have a context from a certain point of view.
but from my point of view for the few pumas games s ive watched last couple of seasons is lavinini got away with a few.
i dont need to provide stats to know he's a dirty player. u can use all the stats you want to obscure or mitigate his grubbiness. but he's dirty

we said it over and over he is a moron and a dirty player. but hes been punished when he crossed the line. as i said he sometimes got away with not so severe foul plays but got carded when deserved. really dont remember him getting away with a shoulder charge like that. Cant find it online but its so red!! and sanzaar didint even care to cite him