[2018 November Tests] Scotland vs Argentina (24/11/18)

[TRF_heineken]

Venue: BT Murrayfield Stadium
Time: 16:30 CAT (SA, GMT+2)​

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Scotland: 15 Stuart Hogg, 14 Blair Kinghorn, 13 Huw Jones, 12 Finn Russell, 11 Sean Maitland, 10 Adam Hastings, 9 Greig Laidlaw (c), 8 Josh Strauss, 7 Hamish Watson, 6 Jamie Ritchie, 5 Jonny Gray, 4 Grant Gilchrist, 3 Simon Berghan, 2 Fraser Brown, 1 Allan Dell

Replacements: 16 Stuart McInally, 17 Alex Allan, 18 WP Nel, 19 Sam Skinner, 20 Ryan Wilson, 21 George Horne, 22 Alex Dunbar, 23 Byron McGuigan

++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Finn at 12 instead of your top defender Dunbar is curious to say the least. I rate Finn highly but he's not exactly a running threat is he?

A chance for the Pumas here to show I've not been overhyping them. Stop making me look a fool boys!

 

[MikeTheNative]

It's going to be entertaining regardless if works or not. Argentina have one of the smaller backlines at tier 1 level so your more likely to get away with it against them than other teams. Argentina have looked a lot better this AI but I still expect Scotland to win by 7.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Argentina: 15 Emiliano Boffelli, 14 Bautista Delguy, 13 Matias Moroni, 12 Jeronimo De La Fuente, 11 Ramiro Moyano, 10 Nicolas Sanchez, 9 Gonzalo Bertranou, 8 Javier Ortega Desio, 7 Rodrigo Bruni, 6 Pablo Matera (c), 5 Tomas Lavanini, 4 Guido Petti, 3 Santiago Medrano, 2 Augustin Creevy, 1 Santiago Garcia Botta

Replacements: 16 Julian Montoya, 17 Juan Pablo Zeiss, 18 Lucio Sordoni, 19 Matias Alemanno, 20 Tomas Lezana, 21 Martin Landajo, 22 Matias Orlando, 23 Sebastián Cancelliere

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

I think Moroni can be an upgrade over Orlando at 13. I know nothing about Bruni at 7. Argentina could really do with a win here to build some confidence.

Scotland don't have the ability of France or Ireland to dominate the breakdown so the Pumas should breach the 20 point mark. The issue is that Scotland's backs will also get a lot more of the ball than normal, which means more points for them too.

I've been consistently overestimating the Pumas a little, so...

Scotland by 3

 

[MikeTheNative]

I'm not sure why people aren't more interested in this game. I think it's going to be the most entertaining game of the weekend.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Scots getting away with a lot of obstructing kick chasers and lying on the wrong side after tackles preventing proper clearouts. The more I watch it, the more it looks like, when they double up a tackle one of the players looks to intentionally fall on the wrong side whilst a support player goes for the turnover. The player on the wrong side stays there just long enough so someone coming in to clear out the Scottish player has nowhere to put their feet.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

This is getting silly. 3 high tackles in 5 minutes.

 

[MikeTheNative]

I'm not sure why people aren't more interested in this game. I think it's going to be the most entertaining game of the weekend.

I withdraw my statement.

 

[FNS]

Same old. Did not expect anything from us and they gave nothing as usual.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Comparatively low quality, not helped by a sodden pitch. Despite the rain stopping the ball seemed to be like a bar of soap. I'm surprised World Rugby don't appear to experiment with grippier fabrics for the ball.

Anyway, Scotland were so unthreatening with ball in hand with Laidlaw & Russell at 12. No running threat at all. Pumas were well below their level from the last two matches and they again show they don't have a functioning game plan for wet weather due to a lack of bulk. Maybe they remain the second worst Tier1 nation after all.

 

[General Melchett]

While the Nov internationals were a good opportunity to give Hastings some experience at this level, him at 10 and Russell at 12 didn't really work and I would restore Russell at 10 with Horne/Dunbar & Jones at 12/13 for the 6N. The back row lacks a bit of size and power with both Watson and Ritchie there. Would like to see Barclay and Blade Thomson lining up at the 6N. Skinner is a good find and should partner J Gray/Gilchrist in the second row.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

While the Nov internationals were a good opportunity to give Hastings some experience at this level, him at 10 and Russell at 12 didn't really work and I would restore Russell at 10 with Horne/Dunbar & Jones at 12/13 for the 6N. The back row lacks a bit of size and power with both Watson and Ritchie there. Would like to see Barclay and Blade Thomson lining up at the 6N. Skinner is a good find and should partner J Gray/Gilchrist in the second row.

Yes. When they get enough possession, Scotland are among the most 'fun' teams to watch, and are certainly much-improved compared to five years ago. However, compared to the top five teams in the world, Scotland lack (a) strength-in-depth, (b) strong forwards, (c) a good defence and (d) a reasonable away record. As for the match itself, not unlike the Wales-SA match it was good in patches but sloppy (by both teams) at other times.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It was a borderline Andy Robinson performance, today.
The Scotland of the Six Nations would have blown Argentina out of the water - hell the Scotland of a week or two ago would have.

Weirdly subdued performance, especially considering the attacking threat in the 10/12.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

It was a borderline Andy Robinson performance, today.
The Scotland of the Six Nations would have blown Argentina out of the water - hell the Scotland of a week or two ago would have.

Weirdly subdued performance, especially considering the attacking threat in the 10/12.

The Scotland of the 6N wasn't that good - it was heavily defeated by Wales and Ireland and very nearly lost to Italy.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The Scotland of the 6N wasn't that good - it was heavily defeated by Wales and Ireland and very nearly lost to Italy.

Argentina are a bad team though, I wouldn't expect them to run any 6N side other than Italy that close at home, especially as Scotland battered them over the summer

 

[bushytop]

Argentina are a bad team though, I wouldn't expect them to run any 6N side other than Italy that close at home, especially as Scotland battered them over the summer

There is no doubt that Argentina right now are considerably better than they were when Scotland (& Wales... twice...) beat them in the summer.

At the time I had genuine concerns (even though I'm not Argentinian... no way I'd qualify!) that they were going to get 'smashings' the likes of which us on here have never been witness to during the Rugby Championship.

I thank the rugby gods that Ledesma managed to work some kind of miracle that that was not the case... but their a decent side... for at least 60 mins and maybe more. They have not been overawed by anyone this Autumn and it was a decent win for Scotland as a result.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Their performances during the rugby championship are strange - they look decent during it and pick up some wins, but then play the NH sides and get beaten pretty much every time.
I've got no idea when the last time we lost to them was - I remember a draw during the 09 lions but other than that?
They get comfortably beaten by all the 6N sides at home.

Maybe they just get up for the RC more than mid/end of year tours?

 

[bushytop]

There is no doubt that Argentina right now are considerably better that they were when Scotland (& Wales... twice...) beat them in the summer.

At the time I had genuine concerns (even though I'm not Argentinian... no way I'd qualify!) that they were going to get 'smashings' the likes of which us on here have never been witness to. I thank the rugby gods that Ledesma managed to work some kind of miracle that that was not the case... but their a decent side... for at least 60 mins and maybe more. They have not been overawed by anyone this Autumn and it was a decent win for Scotland as a result.

Their performances during the rugby championship are strange - they look decent during it and pick up some wins, but then play the NH sides and get beaten pretty much every time.
I've got no idea when the last time we lost to them was - I remember a draw during the 09 lions but other than that?
They get comfortably beaten by all the 6N sides at home.

Maybe they just get up for the RC more than mid/end of year tours?

For this season at least I think it's that the NH have attained parity (or as close as you could ever objectively argue) with the SH (we've actually got a record suggesting more than that but for reasons involving home advantage, times of the respective seasons and 'importance' placed on the respective tours we'll leave it at that) I honestly thought Arg would come up North and do around as well as they have done (TRC evidence-wise).

Scotland didn't blow the doors off but a win over Arg isn't to be sniffed at by anyone other than NZ and Ireland right now.

 

[All Black]

Their performances during the rugby championship are strange - they look decent during it and pick up some wins, but then play the NH sides and get beaten pretty much every time.
I've got no idea when the last time we lost to them was - I remember a draw during the 09 lions but other than that?
They get comfortably beaten by all the 6N sides at home.

Maybe they just get up for the RC more than mid/end of year tours?

Yep. I'm actually a little disappointed in the Pumas because I expected them to do so well in the A.Is after showing promise in the RC.

I'd say they went pretty close with Scotland though.

 

[Tooting Carmen]

Argentina have won several times away against Scotland, France and Italy; they have beaten Wales twice in Cardiff and England once at Twickenham. Of the 6N, only Ireland have yet to lose to them at home (but like the others, they have done a few times away). They may be the weakest country in the Rugby Championship but are still considerably better than Italy or any Tier Two country.