[2018 November Tests] Italy vs Georgia (10/11/18)

[Hap]

So tomorrow is the day. You cannot imagine how important is for us too, for our pride and selfconsciouness.
It's really a shame that both teams won't line up all the best players they have. I don't know georgians players but I can't help but think they'll be superior on scrummaging and breakdown while I'm not so sure that we'll be so brilliant with the backs.
Anyway no excuses, we must win.
Fair to choose Allan starting instead of Canna, we must begin with solid and organized play and if we won't be able to overcome Lelo's defence I hope COS'll throw in Zebre's 10 and his offensive style asap.
But I think we won't see fireworks guys, sorry for you external viewers

Key, in my opinion, will be the meters and lines gained by Polledri and Negri in order to get us some momentum and allowing Castello/Campa to break through.
Can't wait tomorrow!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

100% on the side of the Italians here. I live Italian rugby especially since they've started to chuck the ball around lately.

 

[Hap]

Can I be really sincere here? We've thrown away so many years lately but we started doing seriously since COS came here. Our 0 year is there.
The project is still very far to be complete but we are on the right path, as I wrote here so many times. I really hope, anyway it goes, that the future of italian rugby will NOT depend from the Georgia game but I'm afraid it'll be.

Anyway, and I speak personally, I think COS is perfect as a DOR but I strongly want Michael Bradley to coach Italy soon or late, even if we'd loose him at Zebre.

 

[bushytop]

Can I be really sincere here? We've thrown away so many years lately but we started doing seriously since COS came here. Our 0 year is there.
The project is still very far to be complete but we are on the right path, as I wrote here so many times. I really hope, anyway it goes, that the future of italian rugby will NOT depend from the Georgia game but I'm afraid it'll be.

Anyway, and I speak personally, I think COS is perfect as a DOR but I strongly want Michael Bradley to coach Italy soon or late, even if we'd loose him at Zebre.

Don't worry, the future of Italian rugby does not depend on winning tomorrow... although it probably feels that way to Italian fans. Your under 20's are seriously good and both Benetton and Zebre are more than decent rugby teams travelling in the right direction. A lot of hard work has been put in and will continue to be put in, this will reap rewards at international level eventually.

 

[profitius]

I'm hoping for an Italian win because if they lose we'll never hear the end of people wanting to drop them out of the 6 nations.

If they play smart rugby, avoid too many scrums, they should win comfortably.

 

[Toko_11]

Don't worry, the future of Italian rugby does not depend on winning tomorrow... although it probably feels that way to Italian fans. Your under 20's are seriously good and both Benetton and Zebre are more than decent rugby teams travelling in the right direction. A lot of hard work has been put in and will continue to be put in, this will reap rewards at international level eventually.

That is the case for both nations. It might seem important because of the current hype but as far as long term progress goes this game will be pretty irrelevant. Both countries are on the road for progress, especially coming from the youth systems

I'm hoping for an Italian win because if they lose we'll never hear the end of people wanting to drop them out of the 6 nations.

Why not just support them cause you want them to win ?... Any call to drop them from 6n is either trolling or just plain stupid. However the calls to change the way international rugby works today are completely legitimate, It just needs to happen to benefit all sides involved and not at the expense of Italy or someone else... Either way tomorrows game is irrelevant to the debate.

 

[bushytop]

That is the case for both nations. It might seem important because of the current hype but as far as long term progress goes this game will be pretty irrelevant. Both countries are on the road for progress, especially coming from the youth systems


Why not just support them cause you want them to win ?... Any call to drop them from 6n is either trolling or just plain stupid. However the calls to change the way international rugby works today are completely legitimate, It just needs to happen to benefit all sides involved and not at the expense of Italy or someone else... Either way tomorrows game is irrelevant to the debate.

As I've stated elsewhere, I'd like a 7N with Georgia involved. Yes players play too much rugby etc. but that can be managed. This would enable every nation to have 3 home international championship games each tournament and prevent the current fluctuations in National Union annual turnovers as a result of playing 3 one year and 2 the next.

Also, it is obvious that Georgia would embrace the championship like no other... I'd personally want to be at that first home Georgian 7N match, regardless of who they would be playing.

 

[mosfeldt]

I think the narrative around this game is a bit blown out of proportion. If Italy lose there is no way their position in the 6 Nations is being undermined, they have become a part of the family and even though they get hockeyed a lot I wouldn't want them to leave. It took France 30 years of being the whipping boys until they started winning and they eventually become one of the tournament's strongest teams in it's history. Plus, the 6N is a business at the end of the day and Italy bring in a lot more € than Georgia will.

I would love if Georgia joined to make it a 7N though. What does it take for this to happen? Given the old boy's recent comments on the 6N not being a developing tournament for other nations (or whatever), it doesn't seem like this is on the agenda any time soon. If ever.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think the only nations with a realistic chance of joining the 6N in the future are Germany, Spain and USA. It's not ever been advertised as deciding who the best team in Europe is, it has its own identity really. To get into the 6N you need to offer something more than just good rugby and Georgia don't.

I think eventually rugby will need to look towards a European or "Euro-North American" championship to replace Lions tours if it really wants to be seen as a sport trying to grow.

 

[Hap]

I can see you feeling the hype a bit out of control. But I really ensure you that if we lose tomorrow rugby.it/forum will be the home of one of the greatest mass suicide of the history
It's like we are waiting years for this match and with all the voices going around the world, with or without meaning, we really need to win this. It's much more related to pride than any other rational matter.

 

[Toko_11]

I think the only nations with a realistic chance of joining the 6N in the future are Germany, Spain and USA. It's not ever been advertised as deciding who the best team in Europe is, it has its own identity really. To get into the 6N you need to offer something more than just good rugby and Georgia don't.

I think eventually rugby will need to look towards a European or "Euro-North American" championship to replace Lions tours if it really wants to be seen as a sport trying to grow.

With the current state of affairs that is true however is that how we want it to be ? I'm dismayed by the adversity I get when I make a point about merit and sporting principle in Rugby. The fans really need to start asking themselves questions about what their sport is and what they want it to be in future. When you start playing rugby you're bombarded with these values of fair and honorable conduct on and off the field but when you go up to the governing bodies that just seems to completely lost on everyone.
Does Rugby have it's values figured out ? do people want it to be a proper sport based on sporting integrity and principle ? or should it be just a quick money spinner forever or do the principles only expand to certain chosen nations ? I understand that in modern day it's hardly possible but why not work towards the better future ? why not take into consideration that 20-40-60 years from now things can be better if we start to work for it today. It's only possible if people who care about Rugby actually see past the "I hope Georgia lose so they STFU" and think about what's good for everyone in the long run. But of course historically most of us are not capable of seeing past our noses. Hell, climate change is the perfect example.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

With the current state of affairs that is true however is that how we want it to be ? I'm dismayed by the adversity I get when I make a point about merit and sporting principle in Rugby. The fans really need to start asking themselves questions about what their sport is and what they want it to be in future. When you start playing rugby you're bombarded with these values of fair and honorable conduct on and off the field but when you go up to the governing bodies that just seems to completely lost on everyone.
Does Rugby have it's values figured out ? do people want it to be a proper sport based on sporting integrity and principle ? or should it be just a quick money spinner forever or do the principles only expand to certain chosen nations ? I understand that in modern day it's hardly possible but why not work towards the better future ? why not take into consideration that 20-40-60 years from now things can be better if we start to work for it today. It's only possible if people who care about Rugby actually see past the "I hope Georgia lose so they STFU" and think about what's good for everyone in the long run. But of course historically most of us are not capable of seeing past our noses. Hell, climate change is the perfect example.

I'm not endorsing the status quo by any means. I just think Georgia and the six nations is an idea that unfortunately should be forgotten about, they're just not compatible as they don't add to the cash cow.

As for rugby and its values I tend to think they extend to two clubs/international sides treating each other well after they play no matter the level but beyond the pitch its a business from top to bottom. Obviously I have the luxury of having this point of view and not caring too much because I'm from a tier 1 nation with a powerful union and I only care so much about the game's growth (I accept this is a pretty poor attitude. However, I definitely think that to convince the top dogs to try to expand the game you're going to need a lot more than asking about rugby's ethos.

Tomorrows game will get people talking as much as they do after Italy have a terrible 6N or lose to another tier 2 nation but the chat will result in nothing. Its just another test match, possibly a very well balanced one.

 

[bushytop]

I'm not endorsing the status quo by any means. I just think Georgia and the six nations is an idea that unfortunately should be forgotten about, they're just not compatible as they don't add to the cash cow.

As for rugby and its values I tend to think they extend to two clubs/international sides treating each other well after they play no matter the level but beyond the pitch its a business from top to bottom. Obviously I have the luxury of having this point of view and not caring too much because I'm from a tier 1 nation with a powerful union and I only care so much about the game's growth (I accept this is a pretty poor attitude. However, I definitely think that to convince the top dogs to try to expand the game you're going to need a lot more than asking about rugby's ethos.

Tomorrows game will get people talking as much as they do after Italy have a terrible 6N or lose to another tier 2 nation but the chat will result in nothing. Its just another test match, possibly a very well balanced one.

It's extremely tough on Georgia but sadly it probably is the reality they are facing. Real shame though as there are only a small number of countries that consider Union their national sport (five, if Squidge Rugby has gotten his research correct) and only two of those five get to play in regular 'meaningful' competitions.

 

[FrenchFan]

Georgia should be part of the 6 Nations. They're better ranked than Italy. Their continuing exclusion makes no sense at all.

This is one of the reasons international rugby is sliding. Save for Argentina, there's nobody else coming thru in the Top 10 to counter the decline of Australia SA and France. This in turn reduces the number of genuine contenders for the next RWC when that number should be expanding. World Rugby are down to 4 or 5 serious candidates. Pathetic.

WR is run with the same old boys scout mentality.

 

[FrenchFan]

I would love if Georgia joined to make it a 7N though. What does it take for this to happen? Given the old boy's recent comments on the 6N not being a developing tournament for other nations (or whatever), it doesn't seem like this is on the agenda any time soon. If ever.

Would vote for 7 Nations. We had the 5 Nations, we've moved to 6 Nations who says we can't have 7 Nations?

I would also be in favour of Relegation-Promotion. There's got to be a way in for newcomers (and a way out for the T1 nations that can't compete). It's healthy and it's the best way to develop the game.

Club rugby in Europe is going to be the biggest winner of the current paralysis.

 

[Toko_11]

I'm not endorsing the status quo by any means. I just think Georgia and the six nations is an idea that unfortunately should be forgotten about, they're just not compatible as they don't add to the cash cow.

As for rugby and its values I tend to think they extend to two clubs/international sides treating each other well after they play no matter the level but beyond the pitch its a business from top to bottom. Obviously I have the luxury of having this point of view and not caring too much because I'm from a tier 1 nation with a powerful union and I only care so much about the game's growth (I accept this is a pretty poor attitude. However, I definitely think that to convince the top dogs to try to expand the game you're going to need a lot more than asking about rugby's ethos.

Tomorrows game will get people talking as much as they do after Italy have a terrible 6N or lose to another tier 2 nation but the chat will result in nothing. Its just another test match, possibly a very well balanced one.

My point was completely different. South Korea was a country of fishermen 60 years ago. Today it's one of the most successful stories in capitalism. If there's a will there's a way.

 

[FrenchFan]

I think the only nations with a realistic chance of joining the 6N in the future are Germany, Spain and USA. It's not ever been advertised as deciding who the best team in Europe is, it has its own identity really. To get into the 6N you need to offer something more than just good rugby and Georgia don't.
I think eventually rugby will need to look towards a European or "Euro-North American" championship to replace Lions tours if it really wants to be seen as a sport trying to grow.

None of them are rugby nations. GDP can't be the main factor.

Georgia and Romania are rugby nations with a culture of the game and they're based in Europe. How about developing genuine rugby nations on our doorstep as a priority before crossing the Atlantic. The USA are the most congested nation when it comes to media sports coverage. You're not going to get a look in.

 

[bushytop]

My point was completely different. South Korea was a country of fishermen 60 years ago. Today it's one of the most successful stories in capitalism. If there's a will there's a way.

Yeah a lot of that was down to America investing considerable dollar to use it as a 'poster child' for capitalism over communism... it is very unlikely that the transformation of South Korea would have happened organically.

But still I'm with you, although it's highly unlikely... I would have Georgia in a 7N in 2019 if it were possible.

 

[Hap]

Georgia should be part of the 6 Nations. They're better ranked than Italy. Their continuing exclusion makes no sense at all.

I've nothing against Georgia and a possible 7 Nations but I just want to say a thing: ranking it's not a so precise parameter in this case. We have to manage TMs every damn year against the strongest teams in the world, very rarely we clash against tier2 sides. I can remember Georgia only playing vs Wales recently (and getting a very good result indeed) while they usually play much more vs low ranked nations.
Just as an example, these are our opponents during 2018 season:
- 6 Nations contenders;
- Japan
- Australia
- New Zealand
Georgia's:
-Belgium
-Germany
-Spain
-Russia
-Romania
-Tonga
-Fiji
-Japan
Source: ESPN scrum.

That's where the ranking cames from.
That said, I really don't wanna to understimate the value of the caucasic friends because I'm sure they'd play with very pleasure much more frequently against tier1 if only they were allowed and they deserve it indeed, in my opinion.
I was just tring to put in perspective how the ranking should be considered, in this case, because the contact area beetween Tier1 and 2 (where Italy and Georgia lie) is not interpretable as the tier 1 block alone.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Georgia should be part of the 6 Nations. They're better ranked than Italy. Their continuing exclusion makes no sense at all.

This is one of the reasons international rugby is sliding. Save for Argentina, there's nobody else coming thru in the Top 10 to counter the decline of Australia SA and France. This in turn reduces the number of genuine contenders for the next RWC when that number should be expanding. World Rugby are down to 4 or 5 serious candidates. Pathetic.

WR is run with the same old boys scout mentality.

Where pessimism meets realism.