2018 NatWest Six Nations: Round 1 - France v Ireland

[stus768]

Stade France: 2 Euro deposit per glass but all bars close at half time so can't get deposit back!

 

[stus768]

Stade France: 2 Euro deposit per glass but all bars close at half time so can't get deposit back!

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Stade France: 2 Euro deposit per glass but all bars close at half time so can't get deposit back!

Bloody cheaty France!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

He's most certainly a tactical genius, he does alter his tactics from team to team, he's achieved an unprecedented amount of success with Leinster and Ireland because of it.

If you don't alter your tactics from team to team you are a highly flawed coach... But anyway, I struggle to see what was unprecedented about what Joe has achieved with these teams. He has a great pool of players including some who are the very best in their position and some incredible on the field leaders the likes of which other teams haven't seen for years. I'm not explaining away his success and don't get me wrong most sides would be lucky to have him, but I don't see much in irelands results or performances to make me think he is a tactical genius over and above the other best coaches out there.

 

[Jockstap]

4th best moment in Irish 6 Nations history.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

A crazy last 40 phases and a real bit of the old 'ooh lala' to finish it off. Can't believe he took the kick on from that distance. Glad I recorded the second half though and watched it at double speed.

I think Ireland need to experiment in the centres if Henshaw doesn't lift his level. He has been a bit of s passenger for about 18 months now in my opinion and Aki isn't rubbing off on him the way I'd have expected.

France, well... just too early to say anything really.

 

[munstermuffin]

Stade France: 2 Euro deposit per glass but all bars close at half time so can't get deposit back!

Wait until next game

 

[munstermuffin]

If you don't alter your tactics from team to team you are a highly flawed coach... But anyway, I struggle to see what was unprecedented about what Joe has achieved with these teams. He has a great pool of players including some who are the very best in their position and some incredible on the field leaders the likes of which other teams haven't seen for years. I'm not explaining away his success and don't get me wrong most sides would be lucky to have him, but I don't see much in irelands results or performances to make me think he is a tactical genius over and above the other best coaches out there.

As I'v said for months Schmidt's gameplan with Ireland is wear down more than go for tries. Tonight a prime example. We had 70% of the ball and looked like we could be there until next Spring and not get a try. However his plan is keep scoreboard ticking over and while we had element of luck tonight it is an approach that has got him results. And it is a result based business. He places a huge emphasis on structures and it could be argued that those structures don't produce many tries but the flip side is it served Ireland to be perfectly set up to get the DG as everyone knew their role.
Look Joe has flaws for sure and I am one of 1st to note that. But well has proven there is method to his pattern.

Also I really think Sexton has benefited more than we realise from his 2 years with ROG.

Also big questions over Stockdale defensive side now after his displays from Christmas on.

 

[Groundhog]

 

[big ginger 8]

Also I really think Sexton has benefited more than we realise from his 2 years with ROG.

.

Probably more from his Kerry heritage, maybe having Billy Keane as his godfather.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

As I'v said for months Schmidt's gameplan with Ireland is wear down more than go for tries. Tonight a prime example. We had 70% of the ball and looked like we could be there until next Spring and not get a try. However his plan is keep scoreboard ticking over and while we had element of luck tonight it is an approach that has got him results. And it is a result based business. He places a huge emphasis on structures and it could be argued that those structures don't produce many tries but the flip side is it served Ireland to be perfectly set up to get the DG as everyone knew their role.
Look Joe has flaws for sure and I am one of 1st to note that. But well has proven there is method to his pattern.

Also I really think Sexton has benefited more than we realise from his 2 years with ROG.

Yes but let's not pretend that ireland were in control of the outcome of that game. They were not deliberately in that position, shouldn't have been, and if you repeat that last 5 minutes another 10 times ireland would maybe have got that same outcome twice at best. Plus no other fly half around could have pulled that off.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

If you don't alter your tactics from team to team you are a highly flawed coach... But anyway, I struggle to see what was unprecedented about what Joe has achieved with these teams. He has a great pool of players including some who are the very best in their position and some incredible on the field leaders the likes of which other teams haven't seen for years. I'm not explaining away his success and don't get me wrong most sides would be lucky to have him, but I don't see much in irelands results or performances to make me think he is a tactical genius over and above the other best coaches out there.

So he changes his game plan to beat any team, because that was different to how we played beating NZ, which was different to how we beat England, which was different to how we last beat Aus!

Back to back Heinos and 6nations which was unprecedented with his sides, he beat NZ and SA away for the first time with Ireland. With Leinster he certainly picked teams apart and made a mockery out of the flaws of plenty of sides. It's not as easy to do in international rugby and any individual mistake is punished which is why we went down today, the tactical battle was comfortably in his favour though in a match where the ref had a noticeable effect too.

Is your point solely that he isn't the best coach in the world or that he's not a tactical genius? To get to this level of coaching it's obvious he's a tactical genius, he's at worst a top 3 coach in the world, take your pick between him, Jones and maybe Hansen right now for the best in the world. I also don't think people claim what you state at all, maybe in his Leinster days he had an international standard team that could change drastically from one week to another, the claims possibly even lasted as late as 2015, what he gets praise for these days is how he has brought players through at a rate no previous coach has and how he does have a game plan that can vary from very attacking to very defensive and work either way.

Coming in after that game and making the comment just seems like an opportunistic way to put a downer in a pretty special win. There's a time and a place and neither are here and now!

 

[munstermuffin]

Yes but let's not pretend that ireland were in control of the outcome of that game. They were not deliberately in that position, shouldn't have been, and if you repeat that last 5 minutes another 10 times ireland would maybe have got that same outcome twice at best. Plus no other fly half around could have pulled that off.

True but well you deal with the cards dealt and react how you were trained. A win is a win.

As I said I don't think Schmidt is as flawless as others think here but equally is hard to dismiss him.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Must say Earls doesn't get enough credit. Was excellent today again and his role in the crossfield kick.
The man is on form

I like to make fun of Earls, partly cause he looks like he sniffs glue down the skatepark and pinches kids bikes to sell at a car boot sale, partly cause his defence is ROG-like but he is in F I N E form,
One of the best attacking wings in Europe atm, I mentioned Sextons crossfield above but Earls' take and then ability to beat two defenders and buy time for the support to arrive was next level

 

[profitius]

Fair play to ireland and sexton not only for the DG but to go for that cross-field kick as well.

This aside, I have to say that this idea in ireland that Joe Schmidt is this absolute tactical genius who out thinks and out manoeuvres any opposition, is such incredible bullshit. It's unbelievable this idea exists in peoples brains.

+1.

 

[munstermuffin]

I like to make fun of Earls, partly cause he looks like he sniffs glue down the skatepark and pinches kids bikes to sell at a car boot sale, partly cause his defence is ROG-like but he is in F I N E form,
One of the best attacking wings in Europe atm, I mentioned Sextons crossfield above but Earls' take and then ability to beat two defenders and buy time for the support to arrive was next level

The key thing is he went in field. He is on best form of his career and has actually super wing defence. His defensive flaws are bogged up by media who judge him based on previous displays at 13. There is a big difference between wing and 13 as we all know. Also he is a left wing as opposed to right so fair play to him for transferring form to opposite wing also.

For next game vs Italy though I hope there is changes

 

[Leinster Fan]

game

I think Ireland need to experiment in the centres if Henshaw doesn't lift his level. He has been a bit of s passenger for about 18 months now in my opinion and Aki isn't rubbing off on him the way I'd have expected.

Dunno about that, he's a quality player and he's in great form for Leinster. I'd agree though that there's no attacking spark in the centre unless we have Ringrose there. I'd have Henshaw ahead of Aki though.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

That's a brilliant way to win a game. It took some balls to go for a drop goal on halfway to win the game.

Once the euphoria has died down, I hope it doesn't mask over the fact that Ireland were impotent in attack. A Bundee Aki and Robbie Henshaw isn't terribly creative and needs players running off them. That's never been Keith Earls' strength as he's more of a finisher. Rob Kearney doesn't have that in his locker any more. I was disappointed that Jacob Stockdale didn't fulfill this role.

A lot of players underperformed, most notably Peter O'Mahony who was anonymous and Conor Murray who was laborious at the base of rucks. Others like CJ Stander and Tadhg Furlong didn't play close to their best but came up with big moments to help the team.

Dan Leavy was Ireland's best player but Johnny Sexton had the games biggest moments.

He's just saving his tactics for the world cup!

Quarter final defeat, here we come!

For next game vs Italy though I hope there is changes

As do I. Need to develop a bit of squad depth, give young players a shot and rotate players who are very close in standard eg Healy/McGrath

Something like this for Italy:
Larmour, Earls, Henshaw, Aki, Stockdale, Sexton, Murray; McGrath, Cronin, Furlong, Henderson, Ryan, O'Mahony, Leavy, Stander (c).
Best, Healy, Porter, Dillane, Conan, McGrath, Carbery, McFadden.

 

[munstermuffin]

That's a brilliant way to win a game. It took some balls to go for a drop goal on halfway to win the game.

Once the euphoria has died down, I hope it doesn't mask over the fact that Ireland were impotent in attack. A Bundee Aki and Robbie Henshaw isn't terribly creative and needs players running off them. That's never been Keith Earls' strength as he's more of a finisher. Rob Kearney doesn't have that in his locker any more. I was disappointed that Jacob Stockdale didn't fulfill this role.

A lot of players underperformed, most notably Peter O'Mahony who was anonymous and Conor Murray who was laborious at the base of rucks. Others like CJ Stander and Tadhg Furlong didn't play close to their best but came up with big moments to help the team.

Dan Leavy was Ireland's best player but Johnny Sexton had the games biggest moments.


Quarter final defeat, here we come!


As do I. Need to develop a bit of squad depth, give young players a shot and rotate players who are very close in standard eg Healy/McGrath

Something like this for Italy:
Larmour, Earls, Henshaw, Aki, Stockdale, Sexton, Murray; McGrath, Best, Furlong, Henderson, Ryan, O'Mahony, Leavy, Stander.
Cronin, Healy, Porter, Dillane, Conan, McGrath, Carbery, McFadden.

I'd like to see Rory Scannell in at 12 for creativeness. He's had form.
15 needs to be changed and not because I'm slating RK. Zebo is out and RK is on decline so need to develop 1 if not 2 more 15s.
On hooker I'd nearly call Niall Scannell straight up. Best seemed a bit on the dip and was poor today. Again develop another option.
Backrow. Leavy was superb. I'd start him at 7 but bring a backrow like Murphy so we can test Leavy at 6 at some stage too.

Having rewatched highlights Stockdales defensive game is a worry.

On your frontrow bit snoop. It was said like McGrath and Ryan will start together and Healy/Furlong as in keep units.


Can I just add that it's also desperate that it all Ireland underachieved. And in a way they did like 0 linebreaks for all that possession is poor but France deserve massive credit. I was massively impressed and happy to see them back.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Wouldn't go with Rory Scannell myself but can see your logic behind it.

Rob Kearney is fine if Garry Ringrose is playing because Ringrose will create things. Kearney won't provide enough attacking spark to compensate for a Henshaw/Aki partnership. That's why I want to see Jordan Larmour in there. Agree that Ireland need to develop other talents in conjunction with Kearney at 15. We don't want to get to a situation like we did with John Hayes where his form fell off the edge of a cliff and there was no replacement.

Wouldn't complain if Niall Scannell was brought into the 23. Definitely think Rory Best's position should come under strong consideration. There are enough leaders in the team (the whole pack and Sexton) which means the Ulsterman's ability in this area isn't needed. He doesn't as much off the bench as Sean Cronin and may struggle to make Japan 2019 unless he's managed akin to Keith Wood in the lead up to Australia 2003.

Still not a fan of Peter O'Mahony. He'll stay in the team due to injuries but there are plenty who offer more.

I'd select Andrew Porter over John Ryan. Porter offers more off the bench and needs game time. That's not a slight on Ryan at all because he's done nothing wrong. Porter' is developing really quickly and has made massive improvements in the last 3 months. It's much like why I'd select Ultan Dillane and James Ryan ahead of Devin Toner despite Toner doing nothing to cost him his place. It's merely about looking to 2019.

Jacob Stockdale is showing a dip in form but is worth persevering with.