[2017 Six Nations] - England

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Apparently today England trained with Faz at 10 Teo at 12 and Daly at 13 with May on the wing

Any news of Watson at FB?

Edit: He'll probably be in the 23 shirt

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What was Watson's injury?
Is it not a bit of a risk having him come straight back in to start at 15?
23 shirt makes sense to me, and I'd bring him on early in the 2nd half

 

[Lé Ddanno]

The latest was hamstring

 

[Goodey]

Apparently today England trained with Faz at 10 Teo at 12 and Daly at 13 with May on the wing

Interesting but could just be a post-substitution exercise.

I think a lot of people are a little too eager to move on from the wildly successful Ford-Farrell combo, just because Te'o has done a good job against tired defences. It ain't broke...

 

[ratsapprentice]

They trained with all sorts of combinations.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Yeah, they probably trained with Ford at 10, Teo 12, JJ 13 Daly 15. All sorts of things incase players went down during the game. It's not that uncommon with a week extra to prepare is it?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Almost all training sessions at the beginning of the week have multiple lineups... and when I say multiple, I mean many.

 

[Maverick1987]

Almost all training sessions at the beginning of the week have multiple lineups... and when I say multiple, I mean many.

Don't know about that I wasn't there ..... Just saw an article about it which said what I said to you guys lol

 

[Raggs]

Interesting but could just be a post-substitution exercise.

I think a lot of people are a little too eager to move on from the wildly successful Ford-Farrell combo, just because Te'o has done a good job against tired defences. It ain't broke...

Perhaps, but the Ford - Farrell - Joseph combo has seen us losing the last two games until it was broken up in some way with Teo coming on. 60 minutes of Teo tiring defences is likely to lead to a lot more room and opportunities for a more agile/distributing backline to score from.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Perhaps, but the Ford - Farrell - Joseph combo has seen us losing the last two games until it was broken up in some way with Teo coming on. 60 minutes of Teo tiring defences is likely to lead to a lot more room and opportunities for a more agile/distributing backline to score from.

Then again it could lead to English attack becoming blunted as we use him like Tuilagi and all attacks die with him. Also 20 mins going all out as a sub against tired teams is very different to 60 mins moderating yourself against a team at the same level of fatigue.

 

[Reiser99]

Perhaps, but the Ford - Farrell - Joseph combo has seen us losing the last two games until it was broken up in some way with Teo coming on. 60 minutes of Teo tiring defences is likely to lead to a lot more room and opportunities for a more agile/distributing backline to score from.

I thnk this is partly more to do with the forwards than the backs. Backs can't do too much without good ball from the rucks and that's where we have been weakest. Look at the first try, with good service England were all over Wales. As soon as the dominated the breakdown it stopped. Also Te'o has come on late against sides tiring. Yes he has made an impact, but would it be the same impact from the start over 60 minutes. Dn't get me wrong, I'd like to see how England play with him from the start, but there is an assumption that how players play at 60 mins is the same as from the start. Some players are now being selected for the bench, purely on their ability to have an impact from the bench.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Teo is not starting material. Until he becomes a completely different player he won't be. We play a playmaking 12. That's how we've won all our games. Changing that is not a good idea. If we feel Ford is off form try a Farrell at 10 and Slade at 12 or loz at 10 with Farrell at 12.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Teo is not starting material. Until he becomes a completely different player he won't be. We play a playmaking 12. That's how we've won all our games. Changing that is not a good idea. If we feel Ford is off form try a Farrell at 10 and Slade at 12 or loz at 10 with Farrell at 12.

Generally speaking I agree the Farrell and Ford axis has been a key part of our winning streak. But recently it hasn't looked quite so well oiled and hasn't been the reason we've won.
What I don't understand however is why people are advocating for Teo at 13 when in Elliott Daly we have THE FORM 13 in the premiership. Then we could stick an actual winger on the wing - how about that.

 

[ratsapprentice]

But recently it hasn't looked quite so well oiled and hasn't been the reason we've won.

Except when it was the reason we won against Wales.

Te'o could perform well as a starter, but I'm not convinced it'd be that helpful. Te'o coming on has also coincided with better carriers coming on to replace worse carriers in the forwards.
That's also the big difference between this six nations and last year - forwards carrying hard. I think you're choosing the least likely reason as to why we've looked better in the last 20 mins, if you think it's primarily because of Te'o.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Except when it was the reason we won against Wales.

Te'o could perform well as a starter, but I'm not convinced it'd be that helpful. Te'o coming on has also coincided with better carriers coming on to replace worse carriers in the forwards.
That's also the big difference between this six nations and last year - forwards carrying hard. I think you're choosing the least likely reason as to why we've looked better in the last 20 mins, if you think it's primarily because of Te'o.

Oh don't get me wrong I'm not advocating for a change. That would be premature and I don't think we need that yet. I'm just saying that there's little reason to think that Teo can only function well as a sub and also to think that we shouldn't be thinking - probably down the line - of ways we can improve, even on something that's already working quite well. As we get better we'll end up having to make tougher choices we're not used to making - the sort that a very good team have to make if they want to be a great team. Again, we're not there yet, but it's worth remembering that virtually every element of our game can and should be improved.

Definitely take your point that the axis brought us that try against Wales. Equally though Teo was the one to get us in the position where Wales made that ****ty kick, with his line break.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The other thing is do we really want to make Teo central to England when we have a lot of other young centres we should be looking to build around now instead? Farrell, Daly, Slade, JJ and Hill as well as the ever present possibility of Tuilagi making it through a month without injury.

 

[Raggs]

If Teo is the best player, then yes, we should use him, he's hardly over the hill.

Our playmaker axis has lead to us being behind until Teo has come on. Now correlation is not causation, and I fully understand that things are different between the first 60 and the last 20, but let's not pretend that our current 10/12/13 axis has been tearing it up so far this 6n. I always feel that you want power to start the game, and pace/guile to finish it. Power will drain the legs, and guile can take advantage of it. I'm not saying we just want to turn in France/SA with just power runners, but an extra heavy carrier, especially in the backs, could be of great benefit.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If Teo is the best player, then yes, we should use him, he's hardly over the hill.

Our playmaker axis has lead to us being behind until Teo has come on. Now correlation is not causation, and I fully understand that things are different between the first 60 and the last 20, but let's not pretend that our current 10/12/13 axis has been tearing it up so far this 6n. I always feel that you want power to start the game, and pace/guile to finish it. Power will drain the legs, and guile can take advantage of it. I'm not saying we just want to turn in France/SA with just power runners, but an extra heavy carrier, especially in the backs, could be of great benefit.

As others have said, the problem for our last 2 games has been in the forwards. It's hard for the backs to produce much when the forwards are poor at clearing out the ruck so all ball is slow. Teo coming on has tended to coincide with the likes of Haskell and George coming on too. Wales have been saying for years that Roberts can tire defences but the reality is that he doesn't, what he does do is kill Welsh attack. The fact is battering defences doesn't tire them as much as some claim. Also last game we kept the 10-12 axis and it was that 10-12 axis that put him into the gaps.

 

[ratsapprentice]

For those who are on Sam Underhill watch, he's starting for the Ospreys against Munster this afternoon.

5:15 on Sky.

Not sure how many starts he's had since coming back from injury, can't be more than one or two...

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

for those who are on sam underhill watch, he's starting for the ospreys against munster this afternoon.

5:15 on completely legal streaming

not sure how many starts he's had since coming back from injury, can't be more than one or two...

ftfy