[2017 Rugby Championship] Round 5: South Africa v Australia (30/09/2017)

[SomeOke]

11 Lleyds
14 Nkosi
15 Combrinck

11. Lleyds 14. Combrink 15.Gelant 23. Nkosi

 

[TRF_heineken]

I see that AC's remarks on certain players have fallen on deaf ears, with Gary Gold now also questioning AC's remarks on Francois Hougaard:
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/gold-puzzled-by-coetzees-hougaard-comments-20170928

"It's a tough call on Francois, who has been a loyal servant of South African rugby for a long time,"Gold wrote via a column for The Times. "I find Coetzee's comments regarding Hougaard's axing bizarre, and I would like to see what elements of his game he struggled with technically according to the national coach."

It's not like our other scrumhalves are technically superior to Francois. Sure, each of them have areas in which they can improve. And AC's remarks about Hougaard switching between wing and scrumhalf is also outdated. Hougaard has been consistently playing scrumhalf for the past 2 years while being at Worcester.

 

[saulan]

It's not like our other scrumhalves are technically superior to Francois. Sure, each of them have areas in which they can improve. And AC's remarks about Hougaard switching between wing and scrumhalf is also outdated. Hougaard has been consistently playing scrumhalf for the past 2 years while being at Worcester.

To be honest I am not upset about this at all. I was a massive fan of Hougaard when he came on the scene and even in the past few years, but his passing from the base of the ruck and scrum is inaccurate and slow. He is an electric player when he sniffs some space, but his basics are a bit wanting. He has often put our backline on the backfoot with his two steps from the ruck and then has cost more precious milliseconds on our flyhalves or first receivers who have to recover from receiving passes that are high or they need to reach for in different directions.

Edit: Although let me make it clear, I don't understand why AC would be stupid enough to say all this about Hougaard in public. Why would he do this? He just based the player's self confidence even further and basically said look you can't play the position you are meant to play. Surely the best thing to do would be to take him aside and speak about the areas he needed to improve on.

I mean look at how he protected Rhule, why did he not do the same thing with Hougaard and speak to him on the side, very strange.

 

[TRF_heineken]

To be honest I am not upset about this at all. I was a massive fan of Hougaard when he came on the scene and even in the past few years, but his passing from the base of the ruck and scrum is inaccurate and slow. He is an electric player when he sniffs some space, but his basics are a bit wanting. He has often put our backline on the backfoot with his two steps from the ruck and then has cost more precious milliseconds on our flyhalves or first receivers who have to recover from receiving passes that are high or they need to reach for in different directions.

Edit: Although let me make it clear, I don't understand why AC would be stupid enough to say all this about Hougaard in public. Why would he do this? He just based the player's self confidence even further and basically said look you can't play the position you are meant to play. Surely the best thing to do would be to take him aside and speak about the areas he needed to improve on.

I mean look at how he protected Rhule, why did he not do the same thing with Hougaard and speak to him on the side, very strange.

My issue is that if Hougaard is really so poor, then why did AC pick him? And kept on selecting him ahead of other more "technically" gifted scrumhalves??? AC is basically now saying "thank you Hougie, but I won't pick you again", and that is a very short-sighted statement to make.

But on Hougie, and his 2-step shuffle, there are pro's and con's in him doing this. I think when we are playing for territory, or need an exit strategy, then he should clear from the ruck (which he does most of the time), but when there's space and we want to run, then that shuffle can create more room, and he even can make a break himself, which he has also done in the past.

I think Hougie has been poorly treated, and his mentality has been taking a knock and that is why he's been preforming poorly. I won't be at all surprized if he performs well for Worcester upon his return.

EDIT: Australia has announced their team and I've added it to the OP

 

[saulan]

I think Hougie has been poorly treated, and his mentality has been taking a knock and that is why he's been preforming poorly. I won't be at all surprized if he performs well for Worcester upon his return.

I don't doubt that, he is one of the players, like Lambie, who have constantly been stuffed around by the Boks and that has to have an effect on your psyche in game. I think he was playing really well for the Warriors before he joined the squad, I'm sure he will get right back into it.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

Jack Dempsey is an interesting call, but a good one imo. Hanigan has been sub-par all year for the Wallabies.

 

[SomeOke]

Jack Dempsey is an interesting call, but a good one imo. Hanigan has been sub-par all year for the Wallabies.

Really? I thought the entire Tahs pack looked bang average in SR (other than Hooper) Hanigan/Dempsey both aren't really international quality but I understand they want a more workman-like six to try and shore up the poor breakdown performance they had agaisnt us last time.

It's pretty much a classic Aussie team, average tight 5, some decent loosies, and a extremely threatening backline.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

Really? I thought the entire Tahs pack looked bang average in SR (other than Hooper) Hanigan/Dempsey both aren't really international quality but I understand they want a more workman-like six to try and shore up the poor breakdown performance they had agaisnt us last time.

It's pretty much a classic Aussie team, average tight 5, some decent loosies, and a extremely threatening backline.

Not saying I think Dempsey is good lol, just think he's worth giving a game because imo Hanigan hasn't delivered from the ample opportunities he's had. Higginbotham would be better than both of them and Scott Fardy even better still, but Chieka being the genius he is completely snubbed those guys for his beloved Waratahs boys.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

The Springbok team to face Australia in Bloemfontein:

15. Andries Coetzee (fullback), Emirates Lions – 7 caps, 0 points
14. Dillyn Leyds (wing), DHL Stormers – 3 caps, 0 points
13. Jesse Kriel (centre), Vodacom Bulls – 23 caps, 30 points (6 tries)
12. Jan Serfontein (centre), Vodacom Bulls – 33 caps, 20 points (4 tries)
11. Courtnall Skosan (wing), Emirates Lions – 7 caps, 5 points (1 try)
10. Elton Jantjies (flyhalf), Emirates Lions / NTT Shining Arcs (Japan) – 18 caps, 179 points (2 tries, 32 conversions, 35 penalties)
9. Ross Cronje (scrumhalf) Emirates Lions – 4 caps, 5 points (1 try)
8. Uzair Cassiem (flank), Toyota Cheetahs – 5 caps, 5 points (1 try)
7. Francois Louw (flank), Bath (England) – 52 caps, 40 points (8 tries)
6. Siya Kolisi (flank), DHL Stormers – 23 caps, 20 points (4 tries)
5. Franco Mostert (lock), Emirates Lions / Ricoh Black Rams (Japan) – 13 caps, 0 points
4. Eben Etzebeth (lock, captain), DHL Stormers – 61 caps, 15 points (3 tries)
3. Ruan Dreyer (prop), Emirates Lions – 2 caps, 0 points
2. Malcolm Marx (hooker), Emirates Lions – 9 caps, 10 points (2 tries)
1. Tendai Mtawarira (prop), Cell C Sharks – 94 caps, 10 points (2 tries)
Replacements
16. Chiliboy Ralepelle (hooker), Cell C Sharks – 22 caps, 5 points (1 try)
17. Steven Kitshoff (prop), DHL Stormers – 17 caps, 0 points
18. Trevor Nyakane (prop), Vodacom Bulls – 32 caps, 5 points (1 try)
19. Pieter-Steph du Toit (lock), DHL Stormers – 27 caps, 20 points (4 tries)
20. Jean-Luc du Preez (loose forward), Cell C Sharks – 8 caps, 5 points (1 try)
21. Rudy Paige (scrumhalf), Vodacom Bulls – 10 caps, 5 points (1 try)
22. Handré Pollard (flyhalf) Vodacom Bulls – 21 caps, 188 points (2 tries, 29 conversions, 37 penalties, 3 drop goals)
23. Damian de Allende (centre), DHL Stormers – 25 caps, 15 points (3 tries)

 

[Ospervat]

I was also willing to give AC the benefit of the doubt but that's long gone.
At best we will be looking at being 3rd or 4th in the World during his tenure. He just had no imagination, willingness to change or even ability to motivate a team.

In terms of the strategic transformation plan the aim is to be among the top three in IRB rankings not no1.

Mediocrity - the new excellence!

 

[TRF_heineken]

Interesting to see Chilliboy on the bench ahead of Bongi... Other than that, it's pretty much as expected.

Although, it would be nice if Kitshoff and Beast maybe rotate a bit...

 

[Ospervat]

Edit: Although let me make it clear, I don't understand why AC would be stupid enough to say all this about Hougaard in public. Why would he do this? He just based the player's self confidence even further and basically said look you can't play the position you are meant to play. Surely the best thing to do would be to take him aside and speak about the areas he needed to improve on.

I mean look at how he protected Rhule, why did he not do the same thing with Hougaard and speak to him on the side, very strange.

Performance management 101 -
Correction should occur as soon as possible, but in private. An individual has the right to know what they are doing wrong and why, so they can take steps to improve performance. If embarrassed, angered, or humiliated an individual will lose ground in terms of the relationship as well as performance.

Don't think AC is familiar with this basic principle. Could it be he is simply underskilled for the role?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Could it be he is simply underskilled for the role?

I have no doubt about that. But then again most of us thought that even prior to his appointment...

Surely he should have gotten some training in the mean time.

 

[SomeOke]

Not saying I think Dempsey is good lol, just think he's worth giving a game because imo Hanigan hasn't delivered from the ample opportunities he's had. Higginbotham would be better than both of them and Scott Fardy even better still, but Chieka being the genius he is completely snubbed those guys for his beloved Waratahs boys.

Haha OK yeah point taken. Interesting you bring up Higgers, I know Fardy is out of the country but Higgers seems like the obvious option to slot in. It allows McMahon to play his usual position as well.

Edit:
As for our team it is obviously improved, Cronje is a much better scrumhalf in terms of game management which is what we need, and has better chemistry than Jantjies.

Flouw for Kriel is alright.

Leyds for Rhule is a straight up improvement, Leyds is great on attack, has a varied skillset and most importantly has a 78% tackle rate in SR as opposed to the 60% Rhule had.

 

[The Jones Boy]

It's gonna be a humdinger and I haven't got a clue how it's going to pan out after the blow out in NZ.
Aussie will be kicking themselves they didn't win in Perth when they had the Lions share of possession.

 

[User1245]

That Bok back line... 92 caps and 14 tries... Strike rate in sy moer in.

You guys have already covered the obvious positive in Rhule. I get where AC is coming from about Hougie. He's never been a good starting 9 and his two step pass does my head in like nothing else. BUT love him off the bench though. That's his niche in the international set up. AC has treated him poorly, yes he didn't have a great match but he didn't completely duff it. Why not just bump him down to the bench. Meanwhile Paige is part of the furniture nowadays... Literally, I think the guy is slowly merging with the bench.

 

[galumay]

I am not game to make any predictions on this game, Wobblies should win on form, but Boks at home is always tough. Looking forward to the game!

 

[mosfeldt]

Gonna throw a 10er down on the Wallabies at 2/1. Anyone else backing the Ozzies?

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

I'm picking the Boks but certainly wouldn't bet on it. Could genuinely go either way.

 

[SomeOke]

Tough one honestly, it'll come down to whether the Bokke can reclaim their set-piece, break down and collision dominance. The Aussies have miles more at the back and if we kick to them all day we are going to be in trouble.

I'd go Bokke at home and at altitude, but a loss wouldn't surprise me.