[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 4: Wales v Ireland (11/02/2017)

[dunney77]

It's when the rules are enforced differently throughout the game.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

How about your players effing roll away them? Its in the bloody lawbook.

Sorry comments like this wing me up "waaahhhh the ref is enforcing the laws and if we break them in this way it benefits us why won't he enforce them the way we want them".

Plus if you do you have to be fit as you'll be rushing to bolster your defence.

He's referencing this fixture from two years ago when Barnes was outrageously harsh for the first 15 minutes while Wales had most of the ball and built a 9 point lead, Ireland were dominant for the rest of the game and Wales weren't reffed as strictly, followed by a typical Barnes bottle job late in the game where he gave a clear Irish scrum penalty to Wales when we could have salvaged a draw (we should have won the game regardless, did f all with possession). Rewind another three years and he gave a penalty and yc to Stephen Ferris for a perfectly fine tackle which allowed 1/2p kick the winning penalty late in the game! Add the ghost ball from 2011 (no involvement from Barnes) and I think its reasonable that any Irish fan is worried about the officiating in this one. Wales always seem to get the rub of the green!

2008 was the last 6n game Wales beat us without a dodgy call or three, who reffed it? Wayne Barnes! Stick your money on the Welsh, lads!

 

[ncurd]

Yes I remember and it was typical fan moaning without any appreciation of what went on.

After the first 15 minutes players in general made a concerted effort to roll away throughout the rest of the match which led to a better game as players weren't slowing down the ball at every breakdown (which is what was happening in the first 15 minutes). Barnes in turn lets his gas off the pedal in being so strict as players were for the most part playing how they should of been from the start. He was managing the game without it becoming a penalty fest just because it didn't favour Ireland as they came a cropper when he was making a point of telling players they need to not play silly buggers.

 

[munstermuffin]

I think its more than 17.
Stander, Ringrose, VdF, Dillane, McCloskey, Bealham, TO'H, Healy, Carbery, N Scannell, J Ryan, Tracy, Roux, Reidy all played outside of the Canada match and then you have McGrath, Leavy, O'Donoghue, Holland and Adeolokun.

That's 19 and outside of Reidy, Roux, Holland, Adeolokun and Healy all these guys have the potential to be 20 cap internationals. McCloskey will struggle, O'Donoghue will bave to fight Conan and Stander for them and TO'H will need to improve but its promising. Tadhg Furlong and Zebo have established themselves as starters in this time too. And in all liklihood Adam Byrne, RO'L/Stockdale/Kelleher, Sweetnam, R Scannell, Aki and Bleyendaal/R Byrne will debut in the next 15 months our depth will be in rude health for the foreseeable future.

True wasn't disputing. But like out of lads you named Healy Roux and Reidy for example won't be internationals. It is good rate though

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yes I remember and it was typical fan moaning without any appreciation of what went on.

After the first 15 minutes players in general made a concerted effort to roll away throughout the rest of the match which led to a better game as players weren't slowing down the ball at every breakdown (which is what was happening in the first 15 minutes). Barnes in turn lets his gas off the pedal in being so strict as players were for the most part playing how they should of been from the start. He was managing the game without it becoming a penalty fest just because it didn't favour Ireland as they came a cropper when he was making a point of telling players they need to not play silly buggers.

So he changed thevway he reffed after 15 mins?! Terrible reffereeing, consistency is all that is asked for.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Doesn't matter how fit you are when Barnes is blowing for not rolling away

That's because you're not rolling away...

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So he changed thevway he reffed after 15 mins?! Terrible reffereeing, consistency is all that is asked for.

Wait what? He didn't change anything, the players changed what they were doing - that's the point.


Overall Barnes does come across as somewhat Evangelical when it comes to the breakdown but only because by contrast many referees don't do much at all.

 

[ncurd]

So he changed thevway he reffed after 15 mins?! Terrible reffereeing, consistency is all that is asked for.

Taking your foot off the gas when players are in general playing the way you want them to for the most part is hardly changing the way you ref. I'm sure had players consistently started making minimal effort to move like they were he'd have gone back to pinging them every time.

Sometimes things are more than about consistency its about making sure the game is managed well. How many games have we seen ruined by over officious referees who even when players are making every effort to do what they want?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

That's because you're not rolling away...

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Wait what? He didn't change anything, the players changed what they were doing - that's the point.

He was way less strict after the players changed what they were doing, there were examples of not rolling away that would have been penalties in the first 15 minutes that weren't blown for the rest of the game. He went out to make a point, did so at the cost of a 9 point lead and then failed to remain as strict for the rest of the game because the infringements became less frequent rather than disappearing.

 

[ncurd]

Overall Barnes does come across as somewhat Evangelical when it comes to the breakdown but only because by contrast many referees don't do much at all.

Have to say when it comes to refs I wish we were allowed to be reffed by Barnes (JP Doyle I'd prefer through) some of the silly buggers at breakdown wind me up something chronic. Although this year I have no real gripe with anyone who has reffed us yet I think in general the standards been pretty high.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Taking your foot off the gas when players are in general playing the way you want them to for the most part is hardly changing the way you ref. I'm sure had players consistently started making minimal effort to move like they were he'd have gone back to pinging them every time.

Do you not see how that affects the result of an international? He started the game reffing the breakdown to the letter of the law and didn't finish that way, bad refereeing. The bottled scrum decision was the cherry on top.

 

[dunney77]

Alternative facts

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Have to say when it comes to refs I wish we were allowed to be reffed by Barnes (JP Doyle I'd prefer through) some of the silly buggers at breakdown wind me up something chronic. Although this year I have no real gripe with anyone who has reffed us yet I think in general the standards been pretty high.

I've been quite impressed by Garces who I used to regard as a troll parachuted in by the IRB.

Re. the game in question I'll probably need to watch it again because my recollection isn't too strong, and I had less reason to get worked up by it in the first place. However, setting out your stall early isn't. problem for me and more to the point if there is the usual pre-match liaison with the referee I fail to see how a team can be caught with their pants down as both were. They just didn't seem prepared.

 

[ncurd]

Do you not see how that affects the result of an international? He started the game reffing the breakdown to the letter of the law and didn't finish that way, bad refereeing. The bottled scrum decision was the cherry on top.

No because both teams were reffed the same for the first 15 mins and both were for the next 65.

If Ireland had not taken 15 mins to realise what he wanted and adapting to it. Instead at each breakdown they tried to do the bare minimum Barnes wanted or not at all. I moan about England not adapting for 20 mins to Italy's tactics in the last round why are you complaining about the ref when Ireland showed not intent to adapt?

The first 3 points fair enough, the second there is some argument but I'd have thought the players might have got it through their thick skulls by before the third.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Have to say when it comes to refs I wish we were allowed to be reffed by Barnes (JP Doyle I'd prefer through) some of the silly buggers at breakdown wind me up something chronic. Although this year I have no real gripe with anyone who has reffed us yet I think in general the standards been pretty high.

I've been quite impressed by Garces who I used to regard as a troll parachuted in by the IRB.

Re. the game in question I'll probably need to watch it again because my recollection isn't too strong, and I had less reason to get worked up by it in the first place. However, setting out your stall early isn't. problem for me and more to the point if there is the usual pre-match liaison with the referee I fail to see how a team can be caught with their pants down as both were. They just didn't seem prepared.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

No because both teams were reffed the same for the first 15 mins and both were for the next 65.

If Ireland had not taken 15 mins to realise what he wanted and adapting to it. Instead at each breakdown they tried to do the bare minimum Barnes wanted or not at all. I moan about England not adapting for 20 mins to Italy's tactics in the last round why are you complaining about the ref when Ireland showed not intent to adapt?

The first 3 points fair enough, the second there is some argument but I'd have thought the players might have got it through their thick skulls by before the third.

I said as much after the game in relation to it taking Ireland 15 minutes and a 12--3 scoreline to get their act together but this isn't a kids game, its a tier 1 international where the ref can't afford to teach a lesson to the players and then change the way he refs. What's a penalty in the 1st minute should be a penalty in the last and I want to see that whether I'm playing or watching a match, being incredibly strict for a certain amount of time just so you can loosely get what you want and all but ignore it strikes me as lazy rather than clever.

Two opposing views here though, I think we can both see where the other is coming from but there won't be an agreement.

I am more worried about what Barnes will or won't do than anything Wales will do tbh.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I said as much after the game in relation to it taking Ireland 15 minutes and a 12--3 scoreline to get their act together but this isn't a kids game, its a tier 1 international where the ref can't afford to teach a lesson to the players and then change the way he refs. What's a penalty in the 1st minute should be a penalty in the last and I want to see that whether I'm playing or watching a match, being incredibly strict for a certain amount of time just so you can loosely get what you want and all but ignore it strikes me as lazy rather than clever.

Two opposing views here though, I think we can both see where the other is coming from but there won't be an agreement.

I am more worried about what Barnes will or won't do than anything Wales will do tbh.

Wouldn't be worried if I were you - Wales are currently the worst side for never completely releasing in the tackle or rolling away. They stand to suffer a lot more from Barnes' wrath than Ireland right now.

I also don't think Barnes will take kindly to be shouted at by either side: "Sir, Sir, holding on!!"

 

[ALJ]

Wouldn't be worried if I were you - Wales are currently the worst side for never completely releasing in the tackle or rolling away. They stand to suffer a lot more from Barnes' wrath than Ireland right now.

The bottom line is you play to the ref.

First few minutes you chance your arm and see what you can and can't get away with and then adjust accordingly.

Can't say I've noticed too much inconsistency from 6N refs over the years (different to making mistakes, which is always going to happen) but I think the view gets blurred through the eyes of a subjective supporter (it happens to me anyway no matter how hard I try to prevent it).

I know Barnes isn't well liked but I think he's pretty good for the most part.

 

[corny]

Yes I remember and it was typical fan moaning without any appreciation of what went on.

After the first 15 minutes players in general made a concerted effort to roll away throughout the rest of the match which led to a better game as players weren't slowing down the ball at every breakdown (which is what was happening in the first 15 minutes). Barnes in turn lets his gas off the pedal in being so strict as players were for the most part playing how they should of been from the start. He was managing the game without it becoming a penalty fest just because it didn't favour Ireland as they came a cropper when he was making a point of telling players they need to not play silly buggers.

This is just disingenuous or straight up wrong. If Barnes applied the rules strictly for the first 15 in an effort to lay a platform he failed miserably. Sorry, he achieved it with Ireland but he consistently allowed Wales dive all over the ball in the second half. Surely if his 'stall' was that important to him he'd have laid the ground rules again for Wales when they'd obviously forgotten on their own line? Everything i know about Barnes (overly officious) suggests he'd be well up for that. He wasn't. His interpretation wasn't time dependent, it was team dependent.

PS Not why Wales won. They deserved the win.

 

[ALJ]

This is just disingenuous or straight up wrong. If Barnes applied the rules strictly for the first 15 in an effort to lay a platform he failed miserably. Sorry, he achieved it with Ireland but he consistently allowed Wales dive all over the ball in the second half. Surely if his 'stall' was that important to him he'd have laid the ground rules again for Wales when they'd obviously forgotten on their own line? Everything i know about Barnes (overly officious) suggests he'd be well up for that. He wasn't. His interpretation wasn't time dependent, it was team dependent.

PS Not why Wales won. They deserved the win.

You do see the irony of an Irish fan claiming a referee was biased against the Irish team, right?

Sorry but I just can't take this sort of stuff seriously.

 

[corny]

You do see the irony of an Irish fan claiming a referee was biased against the Irish team, right?

No more ironic than an English fan compromised by the fact the man in question is English no.