[2016 RBS Six Nations] Round 5: Wales vs. Italy (19/03/2016)

[TRF_heineken]

Venue: Principality Stadium
Time: 14:30 GMT​

 

[Thingimubob]

Been posted elsewhere on here, but here's the Welsh team anyway:

Liam Williams (Scarlets), George North (Northampton Saints), Jonathan Davies (ASM Clermont), Jamie Roberts (Harlequins), Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Webb (Ospreys); Rob Evans (Scarlets), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Bradley Davies (Wasps), Luke Charteris (Racing 92), Dan Lydiate (Ospreys, capt), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).


Replacements: Ken Owens (Scarlets), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester Rugby), Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Rhys Priestland (Bath Rugby), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues).

Happy with bits, unhappy with others - Notably Baldwin over Owens, and the Priestland - Anscombe bench combination. Missed a great opportunity to get Morgan on the pitch in my opinion!

Anyway, hoping we come out with a point to prove and really take it out on Italy on the scoreboard. Italian strength in depth is really getting tested too with Campagnaro (probably their standout player of the tournament) the latest in a long list of injuries to key players.

 

[dai_seven]

Agreed - I would have liked to see Ross Moriarty start as well instead of Lydiate. Not that Dan has done anything wrong, but we know what he can do and it would be a chance to see Ross prove himself.
I don't know what the situation with James King is (or Morgan Allen/Dan Baker/Josh Navidi) but I would have liked to see one of them start at 8 mainly because we need to find a replacement for Taulupe if he gets injured at some point.

 

[Hendo74]

I think there have been quite a few players who, for various reasons, haven't played to their highest possible standards - both in the England game and the whole competition. For example, Baldwin - out of form e.g. poor line-outs and bad handling in attack; AWJ - carrying injury / fatigue; Warburton returning from injury, not quite as energised as he has so often been. Biggar also hasn't hit the heights, through (I think) a mix of injury (Ireland game) and general tiredness.

So it's good that some of the others will/should have more of an oportunity this Saturday. Ken Owens is, as usual, unlucky to miss out, but as long WG's tactic is to build a platform first and then introduce impact players, then that's going to be his role (which he is extremely good at).

Feel a bit sorry for Gareth Davies after what he's done since the start of RWC 2015 but it is good to see Webb back. Also hope Priestland gets a good run-out because he has looked GOOD - and surely Anscombe must get more minutes this time, otherwise what's the point?

What this 6N has really hammered home, to me, is how much we have missed Halfpenny. Liam Williams is great but Halfpenny offers a solid, commanding presence that, along with his kicking prowess, makes him a formidable proposition. I think most opposing players see his name on the sheet and think "hmmm...".

Anyway, hoping for more rugby like the build-up to North's try last weekend, it was beautiful!

 

[Thingimubob]

Agreed - I would have liked to see Ross Moriarty start as well instead of Lydiate. Not that Dan has done anything wrong, but we know what he can do and it would be a chance to see Ross prove himself.
I don't know what the situation with James King is (or Morgan Allen/Dan Baker/Josh Navidi) but I would have liked to see one of them start at 8 mainly because we need to find a replacement for Taulupe if he gets injured at some point.

Yeah really looking forward to seeing Moriarty play, though I kinda see him as a potential option at 8 more than 6, considering his running abilities. We badly need a quality player who can step in if Faletau is ever forced off the pitch, but we are pretty covered in the 6 and 7 department.

I don't really rate King that much. He's a good regional player, but not convinced by his Wales performances so far. Baker and Allen I still have high hopes for, and Navidi should've been in the squad a long time ago... Gatland is convinced that he's "too small", despite the fact his size has never really been shown up for the Blues.

 

[Irish boy]

Campagnaro out for Italy along with others could be embarrassing Wales by 40

 

[ElRoach]

Campagnaro out for Italy along with others could be embarrassing Wales by 40

That is a massive loss to Italy. Don't see them troubling Wales at all really, been really disappointed with Italy this 6N.

Would love to see Wales put them to the sword like last year. Was a fan of Webb, so good to see him back. I just wish they would throw the ball around a bit more like they did against us in the last 15, was horrible to watch for an England fan, but I appreciated the quick ball and attacking rugby they were putting on. Don't you think Biggar needs a rest? Priestland attacked the line more which is much more like the Wales I think most Welsh would like to see. JD just isn't doing it for me at the moment. Tipuric always frightened me as an Englishman and had big role in the 2013 trouncing we received, I think its great he gets to start.

Overall, I would like to see Wales with a new coach. I don't think Gatland is the answer anymore.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Overall, I would like to see Wales with a new coach. I don't think Gatland is the answer anymore.

The popular opinion from Welsh supporters on here seems to be that Rob Howley is the problem not Gatland. To me, Gatland must shoulder some of the blame - as the big cheese, he must take some responsibility for the performance of his subordinates. To be fair, maybe the WRU took the decision out of his hands, although he doesn't strike me as the sort of character to allow his efforts to be undermined by suits making rugby decisions.

 

[dai_seven]

The WRU showed they wanted Howley because they renewed his contract really quickly after the World Cup, but dithered over Shaun Edwards. Howley is supposed to be the "attack" coach and says he wants to play a more expansive game now. He harps on about the need to "earn the right to go wide" and get "high numbers on the ball". Bit difficult to achieve that with "Warrenball" where size seems to be a big advantage in selection.
I give the example of Leigh Halfpenny who was moved to full back. In my opinion they seemed to try to "hide" him there to "protect" him for his goal kicking. If you look at last year's game against Italy when Liam Williams came on his first instinct was to counter-attack and we scored a couple of tries through him doing that.
Leigh Halfpenny seems to field a high ball and kick (instead of run) and didn't involve himself as much as Liam does when we are attacking which I think is down to the coaches telling him to do that.
As was said on Scrum V - don't forget that in 2013, Biggar and Davies were in the side and we put 30 points on England. They were both in the starting 15 when we put 60 points on Italy last year. The big difference for me is that we knew we had to score points in both those games and the "shackles" of "Warrenball" were taken off as seemed to be the case in the last 15 mins at Twickenham last week.
As for score difference - if we play like we did against England in the first 65 mins we could lose against Italy. If we play like the last 15 mins it could be a cricket score.
IF is a huge word though!

 

[AzaMatt]

gutted for owens, i would have liked him to start as baldwin had a shocker last week. after that first half performance this week i expect wales to come out all guns blazing, webb looked really sharp when he came on last week. Gareth Davies has been great for us and has outstanding pace but doesnt seem to have the sharp delivery webb has and its not as though webb isnt quick either so he ticks both boxes. id settle for just a win but with italy's injuries i think a score difference of 20+ is on the cards.

 

[RedruthRFC]

The WRU showed they wanted Howley because they renewed his contract really quickly after the World Cup, but dithered over Shaun Edwards. Howley is supposed to be the "attack" coach and says he wants to play a more expansive game now. He harps on about the need to "earn the right to go wide" and get "high numbers on the ball". Bit difficult to achieve that with "Warrenball" where size seems to be a big advantage in selection.

If the WRU are cutting Gatland out of decisions like Howley's appointment, then the whole camp has a pretty big problem. Even if this is the case and Gatland had no say in the decision (which would be crazy in itself), surely it falls to him to make the best of the hand he's been dealt and get his coaches singing from the same song sheet.

 

[ElRoach]

If the WRU are cutting Gatland out of decisions like Howley's appointment, then the whole camp has a pretty big problem. Even if this is the case and Gatland had no say in the decision (which would be crazy in itself), surely it falls to him to make the best of the hand he's been dealt and get his coaches singing from the same song sheet.

How long have Wales had this coaching set up? Seems like a long time to me. A number of people have mentioned Wales' lack of ability to change their tactics, but I just don't see where that change is going to come from. The last 10 mins against England could have gone horribly wrong, and I feel the 1 man advantage made it a lot easier.

What are you thoughts on changing the Doc out for someone with more ball skills? Liam Williams came on for 1/2P for the game last year, and Wales instantly looked more dangerous. Biggar, Doc, 1/2P and maybe JD2, for me, point towards a game of rugby that doesn't suit what Wales are capable of. I really don't think Cuthbert is the answer aswell. Priestland looks very dangerous and attacks the line well. For me:

15 Williams
14 Amos (EDIT: don't know this guy well, so will give him the benefit of the doubt)
13 Davies
12 (someone other than Doc)
11 North
10 Priestland
9 Webb

 

[Slamdunk]

How long have Wales had this coaching set up? Seems like a long time to me. A number of people have mentioned Wales' lack of ability to change their tactics, but I just don't see where that change is going to come from. The last 10 mins against England could have gone horribly wrong, and I feel the 1 man advantage made it a lot easier.

What are you thoughts on changing the Doc out for someone with more ball skills? Liam Williams came on for 1/2P for the game last year, and Wales instantly looked more dangerous. Biggar, Doc, 1/2P and maybe JD2, for me, point towards a game of rugby that doesn't suit what Wales are capable of. I really don't think Cuthbert is the answer aswell. Priestland looks very dangerous and attacks the line well. For me:

15 Williams
14 Amos (EDIT: don't know this guy well, so will give him the benefit of the doubt) Halfpenny
13 Davies
12 (someone other than Doc) Scott Williams
11 North
10 Priestland or Biggar with a different gameplan but we also have Matthew Morgan and Sam Davies coming through and both are better than Ford i think
9 Webb

If Scott Williams and Halpfenny came into that backline it would have serious wheels, reall attacking verve and a genuine cutting edge to trouble anyone. Williams (scott) is a better rugby player than Jamie, he is faster, has great hands and is a natural runner with the ball. I think that as long as Wales have Jamie available Gatland will use Warrenball but there is no new Jamie coming through, so i think he will simply have to change tactics before RWC2019 anyway.

Warrenball was put to bed in this 6 nations and if he doesnt realise it, he is stupid. I dont think Gatland is stupid though.

 

[Thingimubob]

How long have Wales had this coaching set up? Seems like a long time to me. A number of people have mentioned Wales' lack of ability to change their tactics, but I just don't see where that change is going to come from. The last 10 mins against England could have gone horribly wrong, and I feel the 1 man advantage made it a lot easier.

What are you thoughts on changing the Doc out for someone with more ball skills? Liam Williams came on for 1/2P for the game last year, and Wales instantly looked more dangerous. Biggar, Doc, 1/2P and maybe JD2, for me, point towards a game of rugby that doesn't suit what Wales are capable of. I really don't think Cuthbert is the answer aswell. Priestland looks very dangerous and attacks the line well. For me:

15 Williams
14 Amos (EDIT: don't know this guy well, so will give him the benefit of the doubt)
13 Davies
12 (someone other than Doc)
11 North
10 Priestland
9 Webb

All boils down to whether you see it as the player's natural style of play, or orders from the coaching staff. I myself am fairly convinced it's the gameplan set by the coaches. @dullonien actually wrote a great post in the England vs Wales thread questioning whether our really talented backs have actually developed their attacking game under Gatland, Howley and Edwards?

Think of it like this - Halfpenny came onto the scene as a quick, agile winger full of attacking potential whenever he got the ball. While he never quite learned how to naturally hit the line from fullback, he has shown plenty of times that he is capable of creating something from nothing - Shane's try vs Samoa in 2011, multiple times of the 2013 Lions tour, etc. So I'm convinced the whole idea of him just kicking the ball constantly is down to orders from above.

Same goes for JD2 - He came onto the scene as a natural line breaking centre with a decent passing game (I still love that long pass to put 1/2p in the corner for the u20s in 2008). He seems to be under orders to hoof the ball a lot now, which can work sometimes (Lions 3rd test, Wales vs France 2016) but essentially breaks down when it he / players inside him gets closed down.

Even Jamie Roberts himself, the crash ball man extraordinaire - when he first came on the scene he was a fullback / winger with good hands and a hell of a right boot. Even when he first switched to centre, he put in some wonderful passes / offloads to put people into space.

Can't help but feel this Wales team is all about following instructions and sticking rigidly to the battering ram gameplan. One reason Liam Williams has been a breath of fresh air is that he is a heads up rugby player who plays by instinct rather than being stuck to the gameplan. Even he hasn't looked quite himself in attack this year, though that might be down the injury.

 

[AzaMatt]

Yea I think we'll start to see Scot Williams play a bigger part in the Wales setup in future as he is very classy and can beat defenders rather than crash through them. Jamie will be 33 (I think) by the next World Cup so I think that's pushing it a bit to be crashing the ball up as he does, and as someone noted above we do not have another centre capable of his power, the guys coming through are anything but direct, all great movers of the ball and great steps on them.

It will be a shame if any of the under 20's lads at the moment do not see a senior Wales jersey in future as they are playing brilliantly and are great to watch, offloads galore and they nail them where as I can probably count the seniors offloads from the last 3 years on 2 hands if that

 

[ThebigARena]

I know this seems like a nothing match but we've had a decent tournament as long as we can put on a good rugby performance tomorrow and hopefully open up a bit and run in some tries . At the end of the day 2nd isn't bad we narrowly lost to England who probably will achieve the grand slam tomorrow and talking of grand slams our U20s have achieved that feat tonight it looks great for the future of Welsh rugby some excellent looking young players in that team Williams , keddie, , Williams, Browns, philiips the future is bright so let's be positive tomorrow and get a good result

 

[ncurd]

Right lads super Saturday let's hope for no controversies and good day of rugby.

 

[ThebigARena]

Welcome to international rugby hallam amos

 

[TommiG88]

Wales getting the rub again. Poor by Italy though.

 

[ThebigARena]

Get try Webb good strength

- - - Updated - - -

Wales getting the rub again. Poor by Italy though.

What rub lol Wales well on top what game you watching