[2016 RBS Six Nations] Round 5: France vs. England (19/03/2016)

[ElRoach]

To be fair to Davies, he is currently where Webb was a year or two ago. Guy is a prolific try scorer and adds a lot to a team, but his decision making at the top level isn't quite there yet. Wasn't that long ago that Webb was throwing silly passes and getting intercepted by onrushing blitz defenders by picking the wrong receiver (did it twice vs Aus in 2013 - had he picked the right guy to pass to ,we'd have been in for a try both times).

Obviously he's worked hard on that aspect to get to where he is now, and I'm confident that Davies will up his game and work on his decision making now that Webb is back fit!

Anyway back on topic!

I find Youngs' passing style odd in the sense that it looks as if it shouldn't really come off, but yet it still does!

Watching the game last week, when he went off on one of his little runs around the fringes, it seemed really obvious where the ball was going, yet more often than not the pass came off and England made decent ground.

Obviously as a spectator, I'm always gonna have a better overview of what's happening than any of the guys in the defensive line would, but it still looks so telegraphed!

A fair point, but an on form Webb looks a lot better than an on form Davies to me.

I think a nine he has a few things to do: Firstly, get to the breakdown asap. Secondly he has to decide the direction he is going. Then he has to decide to Pass, kick, step and pass (crabbing) or run the ball. Youngs has the ability to do all these things but sometimes he seems to get to the ball and then start to think about what he is going to do, which in turn slows us down. It comes down to decision making, and then committing to that decision. He needs quick look at our line on both side, and then a quick look at the opposite line and bang off he goes. Obviously easier said then done, but hopefully this makes sense. The question I would like answered, is how many phases does the scrum half "know" what way they are going because its part of a set move?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

To be fair to Davies, he is currently where Webb was a year or two ago. Guy is a prolific try scorer and adds a lot to a team, but his decision making at the top level isn't quite there yet. Wasn't that long ago that Webb was throwing silly passes and getting intercepted by onrushing blitz defenders by picking the wrong receiver (did it twice vs Aus in 2013 - had he picked the right guy to pass to ,we'd have been in for a try both times).

Obviously he's worked hard on that aspect to get to where he is now, and I'm confident that Davies will up his game and work on his decision making now that Webb is back fit!

Anyway back on topic!


I find Youngs' passing style odd in the sense that it looks as if it shouldn't really come off, but yet it still does!

Watching the game last week, when he went off on one of his little runs around the fringes, it seemed really obvious where the ball was going, yet more often than not the pass came off and England made decent ground.

Obviously as a spectator, I'm always gonna have a better overview of what's happening than any of the guys in the defensive line would, but it still looks so telegraphed!

When you say 'odd' are you referring to the fact that he often passes into thin air?!
He basically can't pass. It's like he hasn't got fingers.
Wales' charge down was mostly Youngs' fault for the pass

 

[McTallshort]

When you say 'odd' are you referring to the fact that he often passes into thin air?!
He basically can't pass. It's like he hasn't got fingers.
Wales' charge down was mostly Fords fault for standing too far away

ftfy

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Hope it's a draw. That'd be unsatisfactory...

England by 2 Nowell tries.

 

[Thingimubob]

When you say 'odd' are you referring to the fact that he often passes into thin air?!
He basically can't pass. It's like he hasn't got fingers.
Wales' charge down was mostly Youngs' fault for the pass

Haha he does do that too, but I meant the passes that actually go to hand. Looks like the receiver should get smashed straight away as it looks soo obvious where the ball is going.

Charge down was a bit of both imo, poor pass from Youngs to a too deep Ford.

 

[johnmac99]

When you say 'odd' are you referring to the fact that he often passes into thin air?!
He basically can't pass. It's like he hasn't got fingers.
Wales' charge down was mostly Youngs' fault for the pass

Youngs is very bulky for a scrum half and that makes long passes awkward for him. If the plan is to run off the fringes and feed Binny, then Youngs is your man because if he can't get to Binny then he can use that bulk to drive through himself.

Care is a lot nimbler, even though he's older, and his passing is quicker and box kicking better, so making him slightly better for feeding the backs on both open and blind sides.

There was only one man to blame for the chargedown try, and that was Ford.

Even my 16 yr old grandson said that as Biggar had committed himself fully all Ford had to do was a dummy and sidestep and he would have been presented with a gap.

Ford needs to show that he has flexibility in his actions and not just single-minded ideas during play. Youngs pass wasn't good, but once he'd taken it Ford should have been adaptable in his thinking.

 

[ncurd]

Ford needs to show that he has flexibility in his actions and not just single-minded ideas during play.

Lets be honest this usually what Ford excel's at and it's not like he's expecting a ****ty pass, he probably didn't see Biggar until it was too late (it's really easy to spot when you know it's coming but lets give Ford the benefit of the doubt here).

Should he have gone through with kick? Obviously not and hopefully he'll learn from that mistake. But both are culpable here, Youngs shouldn't be screwing up a basic pass for a clearing kick, and Ford shouldn't be kciking are a ****ty pass.

 

[johnmac99]

Ford had plenty of time to pass to his right to Joseph, or to sidestep, but he obviously had it in his mind that he was going to kick come what may and we all know what happened.

To excuse his poor decision by saying it's what he usually excels at, holds no weight. A better pass from Youngs may have helped, but if he didn't see Biggar commit himself early, then he has major problems.

Expect a few more chargedown attempts now.

 

[optimuswolf]

Did someome say care was better at box kicking?! Its a weakness in his game which I'll admit is surprising given he looks like a footballer who has been on the protein shakes...

 

[Every Time Ref]

Ford had plenty of time to pass to his right to Joseph, or to sidestep, but he obviously had it in his mind that he was going to kick come what may and we all know what happened.

To excuse his poor decision by saying it's what he usually excels at, holds no weight. A better pass from Youngs may have helped, but if he didn't see Biggar commit himself early, then he has major problems.

Expect a few more chargedown attempts now.

Ford was clearly culpable for the chargedown, but let's not pretend Youngs's pass wasn't a shocker

 

[johnmac99]

Ford was clearly culpable for the chargedown, but let's not pretend Youngs's pass wasn't a shocker

You really have got a down on Youngs.

I would describe his pass as 'poor' as Ford still managed to gather it in good time. For me to call a pass a 'shocker' would be if it had been behind Ford or over his head such that he left himself wide open to a tackle, or if it hadn't quite reached him.

- - - Updated - - -

Did someome say care was better at box kicking?! Its a weakness in his game which I'll admit is surprising given he looks like a footballer who has been on the protein shakes...

Yes that was me.

When Care went on his binge and was dropped by Lancaster he was kicking everything and much too far.

Before then, and since, he has straightened himself out, and his box kicking has been excellent, as you will no doubt see against France.

 

[Every Time Ref]

You really have got a down on Youngs.

I would describe his pass as 'poor' as Ford still managed to gather it in good time. For me to call a pass a 'shocker' would be if it had been behind Ford or over his head such that he left himself wide open to a tackle, or if it hadn't quite reached him.

Semantics I guess, maybe "shocker" is an exaggeration, but I'd say it was unacceptably bad from an international scrumhalf. It was off the top of the lineout, a rehearsed set play with no decision to make and no pressure on the execution. To me that is what makes it a particularly bad pass

 

[RedruthRFC]

Semantics I guess, maybe "shocker" is an exaggeration, but I'd say it was unacceptably bad from an international scrumhalf. It was off the top of the lineout, a rehearsed set play with no decision to make and no pressure on the execution. To me that is what makes it a particularly bad pass

+1. For an international fly half in the circumstances you describe, I would make a case for it being a shocker personally. johnmac99's definition of a shocker is setting the bar far too low for an international scrum half in this situation IMO.

 

[Tony Manx]

+1. For an international fly half in the circumstances you describe, I would make a case for it being a shocker personally. johnmac99's definition of a shocker is setting the bar far too low for an international scrum half in this situation IMO.

+2!

 

[Every Time Ref]

+1. For an international fly half in the circumstances you describe, I would make a case for it being a shocker personally. johnmac99's definition of a shocker is setting the bar far too low for an international scrum half in this situation IMO.

Presume you mean scrum half?

Not that I am letting the fly half off, you understand. Although for me the real moment of awfulness from Ford was the moment he ran straight into Roberts 10m from his own line. That decision was at least 5 Haskells

 

[johnmac99]

+1. For an international fly half in the circumstances you describe, I would make a case for it being a shocker personally. johnmac99's definition of a shocker is setting the bar far too low for an international scrum half in this situation IMO.

.....and Ford's kick that was charged down was a shocker esp. for an international fly-half.

Wales 5 pts came from the kick chargedown, not from the poor pass which could have been dealt with differently by Ford. IMO it was Ford's slowness of thought that caused the score.

 

[ncurd]

For some people it doesn't matter what Ford does unless he has a blinder they're going to pick up and rag on him regardless of what he does. In this fact both players were culpable but some people just won't concede that.

 

[RedruthRFC]

.....and Ford's kick that was charged down was a shocker esp. for an international fly-half.

That's irrelevant to the question of whether Youngs' pass was a shocker. I would agree that given the time he had, Ford's decision / execution was shocking too.

Wales 5 pts came from the kick chargedown, not from the poor pass which could have been dealt with differently by Ford. IMO it was Ford's slowness of thought that caused the score.

And (IMO) we wouldn't be having this conversation if the pass had been decent. If either player has done their job to the level expected from an international 9 / 10, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[Every Time Ref]

.....and Ford's kick that was charged down was a shocker esp. for an international fly-half.

Wales 5 pts came from the kick chargedown, not from the poor pass which could have been dealt with differently by Ford. IMO it was Ford's slowness of thought that caused the score.

There's no one cause of anything that happens on the pitch, I think that's simplistic.

I'm not defending Ford's poor decision making at all. Wales wouldn't have scored if he hadn't made that massive error - I agree, unacceptable for an international fly half. But he wouldn't have been in a position at all if it weren't for Youngs's horrible pass. They are both culpable.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Presume you mean scrum half?

Not that I am letting the fly half off, you understand. Although for me the real moment of awfulness from Ford was the moment he ran straight into Roberts 10m from his own line. That decision was at least 5 Haskells

Sorry, I did indeed. I really must learn to proof read all my posts.