[2016 RBS Six Nations] Round 1: Ireland vs. Wales (07/02/2016)

[MojoPin]

How is Cuthbert still in the Wales 23?

If James does well then I can't see him being there for long when Liam Williams makes his inevitable return. My only guess is that they don't think Liam is quite ready yet and they want some cover in case James has a howler, or if they have to move North into the centre? Even then I probably would have gone with Morgan instead.

 

[munstermuffin]

Wait where is Gatland gone. Wasn't expecting this bold, brave and kind of exciting looking selection. Where has Gatland gone???? On Cuthbert he always seems to have good games against us so maybe that was part of the reason as well as Williams surely needs more time.

 

[Thingimubob]

I think last time you were in Ireland you got humped off the park in the first half didn't you ? And last years first game Wales really should have lost by 20 to England not 5 . Haskell ran into the post and Attwood scored a try that was disallowed harshly imo

This will be a real toughie for Wales but if they win it will set them up beautifully for the rest of the tournament

You mean rightfully disallowed for blatant crossing earlier in the move? (probably not best to get back into it, there's a whole thread in the archives for that one!)

We're notoriously slow starters, but hopefully the world cup effect could help lessen that.

Last time round Ireland ground us out of the game via defence and rolling mauls, we weren't out of it by half time by a long shot, but didn't look like we were ever finding our way back either. In contrast, we outmuscled Ireland in Dublin last August, though admittedly not Ireland's completely 1st choice side.

Really happy with this team though, couple of the form players in Wales rightfully picked alongside the same established team!

Excited to see how they play!

 

[Slamdunk]

Thats one hell of a lot of responsibility on the shoulders of Samson Lee with Evans not a known scrummaging efficianado. Im not shocked by anything other than that one but i cant work out why Cuthbert would bench when Amos can clearly cover a number of positions if we are stuck.

That aside, im delighted to see Tipuric and Warburton together as it means Wales will have a slightly faster game. Warburton can hold his own at 6 at this level but the combination of him and Tips really puts some wheels into the back row. Faletau has never been a 'bowl em over' 8 like Heaslip but he does everything else absolutely brilliantly.

The game will be won up front and i think Wales can get parity up front with an edge in the second and back rows.

I suppose Evans or someone needs to be tried, brought in and brought up to speed because Gethin cant go on for ever.

I am quite happy with the 15 but the bench is very strong, so that will count for a lot too.

Gatland seems to be discreetly rebuilding the side slowly. Our backs are looking better and better with people like Scott Williams, Rhys Webb, Halfpenny, Morgan, Liam Williams and Sam Davies not in the 23 we have a bright future behind the scrum.

If the front row changes go well, all he needs to do is replace AWJ and we will be fine - lets hope the big man is immortal.

 

[AzaMatt]

I was not expecting a few of these choices even if most fans were calling out for them. Rob Evans was a big surprise but I can see him developing well into the mold of Jenkins, he's not huge for a prob and good in the loose. Just needs to work on getting turnovers! Haha. Warburton to 6 and tips at 7 makes perfect sense, I do like lydiate but throwing him back in now would be a risk as we don't wanna damage his shoulder(?) even further, can see him starting next week though to get him some game time. Excited to see Tom James play and I'm sure north started internationally at 14 and played really well there so he might get more involved in the game at 14. Finally I really rate anscombe, not sure why as we've not seen him do anything outstanding over here yet but his distribution could be handy as he alternates with Biggar at first receiver. All in all I'm really excited to see this team play, as long as we are not well behind after the first half we should win as we always seem to stage a comeback in second half against Ireland it's just that if they have hammered us for the first 15-20 mins then it will be hard to comeback

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Tipuric, Evans, James and Anscombe starting for Wales!

Gareth Anscombe; George North, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, Tom James; Dan Biggar, Gareth Davies; Rob Evans, Scott Baldwin, Samson Lee, Luke Charteris, Alun Wyn Jones, Sam Warburton (capt), Justin Tipuric, Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements: Ken Owens, Gethin Jenkins, Tomas Francis, Bradley Davies, Dan Lydiate, Lloyd Williams, Rhys Priestland, Alex Cuthbert.

Very happy with this squad on the whole, very strong. Not sure about Cuthbert on the bench but glad to see Tom James get his shot! Glad to see Williams isn't being rushed back but still think he would have been a better bench option as he covers all the back positions.

I've seen scarier Welsh sides! On the other hand I doubt I'll be over awed by the Ireland side that are going to march out! Pack battle will be interesting Ireland will be stronger on paper at 1, 2 and 3 with Wales having some parity at 4 and 5. The back row battle will be great and looking at that I've changed my mind completely and think Ireland need a 'proper' 7, Stander/Ruddock, Van Der Flier/Henry and Heaslip is probably the most balanced outfit to take them on and with O'Brien on the bench Ireland would have the better substitute. This isn't a game I'd want to see something like Ruddock, O'Brien and Heaslip could work too but experience is the only place I see them being stronger than any of the other variations mentioned as of now. It can't get worse than the Murphy, Henry and Heaslip axis that got roasted against Argentina in Ireland's poorest back row performances of the Schmidt era!
10 is still going to be where all is won and lost for Ireland, Sexton and Murray on form will do the job but form has completely escaped Murray this season and for the most part Sexton as well. With an on form Henshaw Ireland would have the best centre on the pitch but Roberts and Davies would fancy their chances of doing damage against McCloskey and wouldn't be worried facing Payne in attack. Both Trimble and DK could handle North and both our fullback options are better than Anscombe.

The side I'd like to see would be:

1. McGrath
2. Best
3. Ross
4. McCarthy
5. Ryan
6. Stander
7. VDF
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Trimble
12. McCloskey
13. Henshaw
14. Kearney
15. Payne

16. Herring
17. Cronin
18. Furlong
19. Dillane
20. O'Brien
21. Reddan
22. Madigan
23. Earls

Don't expect anything near that but a man can dream.

 

[Amiga500]

Is Ross not injured?

I expect he'll go with Ruddock and O'Brien.

I fear he'll go with Henshaw-Payne then Kearney.

I shiver at the thought of Zebo starting.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Is Ross not injured?

I expect he'll go with Ruddock and O'Brien.

I fear he'll go with Henshaw-Payne then Kearney.

I shiver at the thought of Zebo starting.

He is! Slipped my mind, Furlong to Start with Moore on the bench I suppose then!

 

[corny]

He is! Slipped my mind, Furlong to Start with Moore on the bench I suppose then!

Hate to break this to you but Marty Moore is injured too. Its highly likely Nathan White will be starting.

JVF starting ahead of SOB is probably the most ludicrous thing i've ever heard btw. Ruddock, SOB and Heaslip are easily a match for the Welsh trio. No need to stray from that.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Hate to break this to you but Marty Moore is injured too. Its highly likely Nathan White will be starting.

JVF starting ahead of SOB is probably the most ludicrous thing i've ever heard btw. Ruddock, SOB and Heaslip are easily a match for the Welsh trio. No need to stray from that.

Who gives a **** about tight head props...
Sean O'Brien sat out training today, has been constantly struggling with fitness this season and hasn't played as well with Leinster as VDF has. Ruddock, SO'B and Heaslip have all had sketchy form this season, VDF is the form backrow at Leinster and Stander is one of the form players in the country, it's not ludicrous to suggest any of that, picking a form backrow against the Welsh is bloody important and that one is on form and very balanced.

 

[munstermuffin]

Who gives a **** about tight head props...
Sean O'Brien sat out training today, has been constantly struggling with fitness this season and hasn't played as well with Leinster as VDF has. Ruddock, SO'B and Heaslip have all had sketchy form this season, VDF is the form backrow at Leinster and Stander is one of the form players in the country, it's not ludicrous to suggest any of that, picking a form backrow against the Welsh is bloody important and that one is on form and very balanced.

If and its a big IF team was on form my team would be

McGrath
Best
Furlong
McCarthy
Dillane
Ruddock
VDF
Stander
Murray
Jackson
Kearney
McCloskey
Henshaw
Trimble
Payne

That's the form team. Excluded Ringrose and put Henshaw in as Ringrose trained with Ireland but not in squad officially or will he be considered.

But taking everything in I think Schmidt will go
McGrath
Best
White (50/50 with Furlong hope it Furlong)
Toner
Ryan
Stander
SOB
Heaslip (I'd have Stander 8 Ruddock 6)
Murray
Sexton (Big worry is both aren't in good form and have been awful since RWC)
Earls (Schmidt is a fan and he's a finisher)
Henshaw
Payne
Trimble
Kearney (Another very lucky)

Cronin
Cronin
Furlong
McCarthy
Ruddock
Reddan
Jackson
Zebo/D. Kearney. If it's Zebo it'd be just as he's more capable of covering 15. D. Kearney on much more form

 

[corny]

Who gives a **** about tight head props...
Sean O'Brien sat out training today, has been constantly struggling with fitness this season and hasn't played as well with Leinster as VDF has. Ruddock, SO'B and Heaslip have all had sketchy form this season, VDF is the form backrow at Leinster and Stander is one of the form players in the country, it's not ludicrous to suggest any of that, picking a form backrow against the Welsh is bloody important and that one is on form and very balanced.

Is it? Warburton basically doesn't play club rugby anymore so how do you know if is he on form?

Look, O' Brien has played twice since the start of December. He was MOM against Munster and against Ospreys he was probably best of the rest Sexton aside. He is a proven top performer at this level. VDF is a young lad who shows great potential but there is a chasm between Pro 12, even Champions Cup, and International Rugby. He'd be a débutante to boot.

BTW its likely O' Brien is being managed by the IRFU's player welfare policy and his injuries are somewhat overstated. Like i said on the two occasions i've seen him recently he's looked impressive.

 

[munstermuffin]

Is it? Warburton basically doesn't play club rugby anymore so how do you know if is he on form?

Look, O' Brien has played twice since the start of December. He was MOM against Munster and against Ospreys he was probably best of the rest Sexton aside. He is a proven top performer at this level. VDF is a young lad who shows great potential but there is a chasm between Pro 12, even Champions Cup, and International Rugby. He'd be a débutante to boot.

BTW its likely O' Brien is being managed by the IRFU's player welfare policy and his injuries are somewhat overstated. Like i said on the two occasions i've seen him recently he's looked impressive.

I think what he's saying is if all Welsh guys perform to ability it's very good. Regards SOB if anyone knows much about Ireland they know SeanO'Briens injuries were reason he's missed so much and not the player welfare. And SOBhimself has said he hasn't been on top form and is hoping to pick it up. He got MOTM against us in Pro 12 but both had average teams out and it was 1 of worst derbies in years. VDF has proven himself on every level so far.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Is it? Warburton basically doesn't play club rugby anymore so how do you know if is he on form?

Look, O' Brien has played twice since the start of December. He was MOM against Munster and against Ospreys he was probably best of the rest Sexton aside. He is a proven top performer at this level. VDF is a young lad who shows great potential but there is a chasm between Pro 12, even Champions Cup, and International Rugby. He'd be a débutante to boot.

BTW its likely O' Brien is being managed by the IRFU's player welfare policy and his injuries are somewhat overstated. Like i said on the two occasions i've seen him recently he's looked impressive.

I meant 'that one' as my proposed backrow. Warburton is a risk for Wales regardless. The way he's being managed but when preparing for a game it's best to expect that the opposition will be at their very best. Lack of playing time is my main concern with O'Brien and I haven't thought it out as well as you have but if O'Brien is deemed fit and in form he's our man and if that's the case I'd likely go for your proposed backrow if I was the coach. As a fan I'm excited about the new crop of players coming through the ranks and want to see what they can do and I'm not exactly waiting patiently after the disappointment of the RWC QF, I think both backrows would put up a strong fight against the Welsh but Ruddock, SOB and Heaslip are definitely stronger over all not taking any opposition into account.

 

[corny]

If and its a big IF team was on form my team would be

McGrath
Best
Furlong
McCarthy
Dillane
Ruddock
VDF
Stander
Murray
Jackson
Kearney
McCloskey
Henshaw
Trimble
Payne

I think you boys are just playing fantasy rugby A backrow of Stander, Ruddock, VDF would be eaten alive at the breakdown by Warburton and Tipuric.

I've said enough on this already but if i saw the Welsh team picked the first two names on my team sheet would be Heaslip and SOB.

 

[munstermuffin]

I think you boys are just playing fantasy rugby A backrow of Stander, Ruddock, VDF would be eaten alive at the breakdown by Warburton and Tipuric.

I've said enough on this already but if i saw the Welsh team picked the first two names on my team sheet would be Heaslip and SOB.

Well if you read first line it said clearly the form players are in each position. I can't say Stander is a form 6 when he's not.

But again Heaslip is like marmite some would agree other would hugely disagree. He isn't rated by a lot any more and others rate him highly. SOB I think everyone agrees is a starter for sure.

 

[LukeFitzgerald]

Lol at Ruddock/JVdF/Stander. Heaslip does more dog work than any of those players which is absolutely essential now that POC is missing. SOB is far better on the ground that any of those and has been in great form when he has played this year. Stander is unproven at international level, but I have no doubt he will be a starter for us for the next few years. Stander off the bench against a tired Welsh side would pose some serious problems for them, considering his immense ball carrying and work rate.
Ryan is completely out of form and McCarthy is one of the form locks in the country.
It is pretty much a toss up between White and Furlong, but Furlong should be our starter by the end of the tournament.

 

[Slamdunk]

Hate to break this to you but Marty Moore is injured too. Its highly likely Nathan White will be starting.

JVF starting ahead of SOB is probably the most ludicrous thing i've ever heard btw. Ruddock, SOB and Heaslip are easily a match for the Welsh trio. No need to stray from that.

The Welsh back row on Saturday is going to give a real injection of pace and two top quality 7's in tandem is a luxury many teams cannot muster. I simply don't believe Heaslip is as good as Faletau aside from his famed lung busting runs Toby is a better player in every aspect. Ruddock, SOB and Heaslip will do well to get parity, they are not 'easily a match' by any means.

We edge the second row on experience and grunt, I think AWJ and Charteris combined is a great pairing.

Up front is where I believe Wales simply need parity ( that will be tough ) to win the battle of the packs. Wales do struggle at scrum time but limiting the number of scrums is part of the game plan.

Evans is dynamic in the loose and his selection is interesting. Warburton at 6 will negate the need for Gethins turnover work and I think Gatland is going to play it tight, but with a very high tempo. Ireland are very effective at slowing it down and a punitive ref will favour the side looking to play the ball and clear the breakdowns.

For both teams the backs performance will be dependant on the pack but if Wales cope with the high balls, or get to an out of sorts Sexton then the game is afoot.

Wales to repeat their last performance in Dublin for me, but with a slightly wider margin of victory.

Ireland 12 Wales 23

 

[Ospreylian]

If James does well then I can't see him being there for long when Liam Williams makes his inevitable return. My only guess is that they don't think Liam is quite ready yet and they want some cover in case James has a howler, or if they have to move North into the centre? Even then I probably would have gone with Morgan instead.

I really can't understand why Liam Wiliams isn't on the bench over Cuthbert. Why have someone (who hasn't played well for Wales for years) who can only cover the wings over a better, more skilled player who covers wings and fulback?

Having said that, it's my only issue with the team. I'm just excited to finally see Warbs and Tips together again at last

 

[Amiga500]

The Welsh back row on Saturday is going to give a real injection of pace and two top quality 7's in tandem is a luxury many teams cannot muster.

I think Gatland is going to play it tight, but with a very high tempo.

Hmmm - I wouldn't fear your two flankers if you folks do decide to keep it tight.

But I would fear them if they decide to make the game more mobile, and spread the rucks around the field*.

I think our fellas can get parity on the ground if its a tight game, but do think Tipuric and Warburton are quicker across the ground and eventually that would pay dividends.



*But that means stepping away from Roberts on the crash ball as Plans A, B and C.

- - - Updated - - -

I really can't understand why Liam Wiliams isn't on the bench over Cuthbert.

'cos he's a wee d!ck? (albeit a talented one)

Cuthbert is a real weak link. If one of your back 3 got injured early on, we'd instantly be targeting him ruthlessly.