[2015 Six Nations] Scotland vs Wales (Round 2)

[ae15]

I don't really understand why people are calling for a return to the team for Paul James. He has no real international future at 32, is not very good in the loose and has been as weak as Jenkins in the scrum since the change in scrum laws. If anyone is to be brought in surely it has to be Rob Evans, he has a bright future, has looked good in the scrums at club level and also has a chance of actually being first choice loosehead in the World Cup.

 

[Josht36]

I don't really understand why people are calling for a return to the team for Paul James. He has no real international future at 32, is not very good in the loose and has been as weak as Jenkins in the scrum since the change in scrum laws. If anyone is to be brought in surely it has to be Rob Evans, he has a bright future, has looked good in the scrums at club level and also has a chance of actually being first choice loosehead in the World Cup.

I agree on Paul James. In alot of Bath fans opinion our young 22 year old Nick Auterac has overtaken him in the set piece this season after joining. He is certainly more mobile as well. It's a tough one for Wales. Jenkins seems to be a penalty machine these days in the scrum but there don't seem to be that many clear choices that would definitely be a superior option by the world cup.

If it were up to me I would give someone like Rob Evans a go and hope he can make the step up. Would be better than Wales being hindered by Jenkins collapses all day.

 

[dullonien]

Whilst I'm a huge fan of Jenkins, there's simply no denying that he's getting on the wrong side of too many ref's atm.

So I'd be tempted by Rob Evans as well. However, I think he's vulnerable in the scrum against a compact, intelligent tighthead, as he's got such a long back. He can be prone to folding in half if he can't get his back straight, and his opposite number get's beneath him. This is where the new laws have benefitted him though, as he can get himself in position, nice and low before the pressure comes on.

Pity Nicky Smith is injured, he was looking a class act beforehand, both in the scrum and the loose. Ospreys have really missed him. Too late for him to make the world cup, considering his inexperience, coupled with a nasty injury?

 

[Every Time Ref]

I agree on Paul James. In alot of Bath fans opinion our young 22 year old Nick Auterac has overtaken him in the set piece this season after joining. He is certainly more mobile as well. It's a tough one for Wales. Jenkins seems to be a penalty machine these days in the scrum but there don't seem to be that many clear choices that would definitely be a superior option by the world cup.

I second that opinion on Auterac James has been pretty poor for us most of this season - although I still don't think he's as bad as Jenkins in the scrum, and Jenks' loose play doesn't seem to be what it was either. I don't know enough about what's behind those two in the pecking order but I'd certainly pick PJ over GJ if it was up to me.

From what I've seen of Wales in their recent internationals, I really think they need to focus on the set pieces, and that means picking your best scrummaging props, your best throwing hooker and at least 2 1/2 lineout jumpers (by which I mean 2 specialists and one who's reliably good). I don't see any of that with Wales and I just don't think you can realistically aspire to win the World Cup without a solid set piece because someone, somewhere along the line, will go for one or the other or both and stop you playing. I think Charteris needs to come in for Ball (agree with @Peat's assessment of him as a Jack of all trades / master of none) and I'm reliably informed Ken Owens is seen as your best throwing hooker so I'd go with him. I agree with the conversations upthread that the lineout problems are fundamentally about coaching and preparation, but in terms of selection, your best players certainly help.

I'd also drop JD for Scott Williams, but that's just a personal thing as much as anything. He's just one of those players I don't rate that much, and he has been particularly poor recently.

 

[Peat]

That was Henry Chinaski, not moi.

 

[Every Time Ref]

So it was. So many intelligent things said by so many intelligent people, sometimes its hard to keep up with all the intelligence flying around.

 

[Maverick1987]

As for Scotland they played well last week, for me they were the stand out team from our 4 nations, Ireland weren't up against much as Italy seem to be in transition and We contrived to make England look good.

I think it's the opposite tbh I think England made Wales look poor by stopping you playing . Realistically all we had to do is take your forwards off the front foot at the scrum(not a hard thing to do), bring in some heavies at the breakdown and have good line out and maul. We did all these things really well. Sometimes being humble is good for you, you should try it . The score line flattered Wales tbh .

Anyway as far as this game goes I think Wales will win by 10 points or so . Get your forwards going in the right direction again get Roberts over the gain line and warrenball will work. Only changes I'd make is Charteris for Ball and Liam Williams for North (presuming he's injured) I'd like to see Cuthbert swapped out but you don't have anyone else with the necessary quality unless Walker has come along well ? Harry Robinson looked good the other day but it was in a one off game so could be his only good game .

Btw did you know you have posted 9 times on this forum and every time you have posted its been a little snipe at England or baiting someone. You aren't doing yourself any favours . Your just coming across like a bitter horrible little man. I think the major trouble has come since you have pulled out your armchair because the six nations has started . When the six nations finishes hang around and watch some domestic rugby . You might even like it ......

Valley Commando ? ..... Keyboard Warrior would suit you better .....

 

[wayevs]

We all know england were the better team but on the same token wales didn't play to full potential. How did the scoreline flatter us?? Its these stupid ass excuses in rugby that are always debatable , I seem to remember halfpenny missing a simple kick for him we also threw away a couple if attacking line outs had those things gone right it could of been a different story. The score is the score at the end of the day and rules are rules in a rugby field , England were the better team and deserved to win by the margin they did , end of story!

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As for the 11am selection I'm hoping to hear a change on the wing - Williams in for Cuthbert is a must- I would keep gethin for know assess the first couple if scrums and if needed bring James on. Ball keeps his place for me - SW should be in for JD- Scott will bring more danger in open play and will break the line better than JD- keep Hibbard for now.

 

[Maverick1987]

We outplayed you fairly confortably for a large part of the game and really should have scored more points . Ford missed 8 points worth of kicks ? The post stopped Hask ... Attwoods try was touch and go . Another day that gets given . The same with Webbs try . Just the 2 tries and the missed kicks are 22 points . Like I said it could have been worse for Wales but that's rugby and even a 1 point win is better than a loss .

But I still stand by the score line flattered Wales slightly in the same respect as England's games against NZ and SA we're flattered in the autumn

 

[wayevs]

We outplayed you fairly confortably for a large part of the game and really should have scored more points . Ford missed 8 points worth of kicks ? The post stopped Hask ... Attwoods try was touch and go . Another day that gets given . The same with Webbs try . Just the 2 tries and the missed kicks are 22 points . Like I said it could have been worse for Wales but that's rugby and even a 1 point win is better than a loss .

But I still stand by the score line flattered Wales slightly in the same respect as England's games against NZ and SA we're flattered in the autumn

Yes this is rugby there are certain referee decisions that go for and against in every game of rugby I think its fair to say we all have our fair share of bad decisions a certain red card at a WC semi final still comes to light for me !

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Upon reflection I'm not to disheartened with the performance considering the scrum was non exisitant and the line out didn't function (shocker)!! I thought defensively we were pretty good considering , just needed more forward ball but then again a functioning set piece helps causes

 

[wayevs]

Wales team to face Scotland:

Wales side to face Scotland: Leigh Halfpenny; Alex Cuthbert, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, Liam Williams; Dan Biggar, Rhys Webb; Gethin Jenkins, Richard Hibbard, Samson Lee, Jake Ball, Alun Wyn Jones, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton (capt), Taulupe Faletau.

Replacements: Scott Baldwin, Paul James, Aaron Jarvis, Luke Charteris, Justin Tipuric, Mike Phillips, Rhys Priestland, Scott Williams

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So it seems north isn't fit after all , 1 positive is that liam starts still would like to have seen Cuthbert replaced

 

[Thingimubob]

Really disheartens me that Gatland still doesn't acknowledge when players simply aren't on form.

Actually baffles me how Cuthbert can retain his starting spot.

 

[bw245]

Gatland needs to go. Really think Wales need a change. His failure to recognise on form players baffles me.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Probably because when the game plan works Cuthbert scores. He isn't far off a 1:2 try record for Wales and Cardiff, on the front foot he is a great finisher.

 

[psychic duck]

I don't really understand why people are calling for a return to the team for Paul James. He has no real international future at 32, is not very good in the loose and has been as weak as Jenkins in the scrum since the change in scrum laws. If anyone is to be brought in surely it has to be Rob Evans, he has a bright future, has looked good in the scrums at club level and also has a chance of actually being first choice loosehead in the World Cup.

That is just complete and utter rubbish. Go watch him destroy Leicester this season and last season, or how he reversed the scrum problems Wales were having with Gethin on last year against England.

I second that opinion on Auterac James has been pretty poor for us most of this season - although I still don't think he's as bad as Jenkins in the scrum, and Jenks' loose play doesn't seem to be what it was either. I don't know enough about what's behind those two in the pecking order but I'd certainly pick PJ over GJ if it was up to me.

James hasn't been poor for Bath this season though. May not be the complete international package, but is still an elite scrummaging prop who I'm glad is returning to the Ospreys next season. Also Gethin, despite getting regularly penalised off the park over the last 12 or so months, still has looked surprisingly sound despite various injuries in the loose. Notably put in a great shift against Leinster recently, and had one of his best loose performances against South Africa last year.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Yes this is rugby there are certain referee decisions that go for and against in every game of rugby I think its fair to say we all have our fair share of bad decisions a certain red card at a WC semi final still comes to light for me !

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Upon reflection I'm not to disheartened with the performance considering the scrum was non exisitant and the line out didn't function (shocker)!! I thought defensively we were pretty good considering , just needed more forward ball but then again a functioning set piece helps causes

Really not sure how the world cup red card is relevant to this at all. @Maverick1987 clearly wasn't suggesting that bad decisions only go against England!

Have you never looked at the scoreboard and thought to yourself "This doesn't tell the whole story"?
Sometimes a five point difference is nothing, for example in the context of 10 try game. Friday wasn't one of those games, I don't think; the 5 point difference felt like a mountain to climb(I'm sure the Wales players would agree) and it didn't seem like there was any way it could happen. This is another way of saying that, the second half dominance by England was such that the scoreboard probably did 'flatter' Wales somewhat - notwithstanding that England need to take responsibility for not finishing all the chances they had.

Really disheartens me that Gatland still doesn't acknowledge when players simply aren't on form.

Actually baffles me how Cuthbert can retain his starting spot.

To be fair, with North out, this is the best option, despite Cuthberts poor performances. Changing two wingers at the same time wouldn't be ideal.

 

[MojoPin]

Feeling a bit torn about the selection - I'm worried that we're not getting a chance to give our younger, more inexperienced players more game time, but then after last weekend maybe the established XV need it more!

Good to see Liam gets a place but I still would have swapped out Cuthbert for Hallam Amos or someone else. Might be wrong but I don't think Cuthbert even scored against a 14-man Scotland last year. He's still got a great record but really isn't looking happy or confident and if he has another dry run against Scotland then he really does need to come off. Still, if he hits the kind of form he had out in South Africa last year then he'll earn his place back with interest. Think Tipuric deserves a chance to show what he can do too - he never seems to be an 'impact' sub to me whereas I can imagine Lydiate's abilities boosting a flagging defence in the final 20 minutes.

Really hope we can see more of the up-and-comers against Italy at least - very much want to see Anscombe, Dacey, Evans and Scott Williams given a good run out before the World Cup.

 

[ncurd]

Yes this is rugby there are certain referee decisions that go for and against in every game of rugby I think its fair to say we all have our fair share of bad decisions a certain red card at a WC semi final still comes to light for me !

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Upon reflection I'm not to disheartened with the performance considering the scrum was non exisitant and the line out didn't function (shocker)!! I thought defensively we were pretty good considering , just needed more forward ball but then again a functioning set piece helps causes

Really it comes down to this rather than thinking about dominance and other things I prefer to think about how the scoreboard could be different in missed kicks and disallowed/allowed tries. At best for Wales it was 2 point game as opposed to a 5 point game as both England tries hold up to scrutiny and 1/2p missed one kick.

At worst:
1/2p still misses his penalty.
Falateu's try gets disallowed -7pts so 12 pt game.
Ford kicks penalty +3pts, 15pt game
Ford makes conversion +2pts, 17pt game
Attwood's try is allowed and is converted +7pts, 24pt game

Those are things which regardless of performance on the night could of happened differently a potential 24 point game doesn't suggest to me Wales sured up well defensively as they could of lost by more than three try's if decisions/kicking had gone other ways.

 

[goodNumber10]

Really it comes down to this rather than thinking about dominance and other things I prefer to think about how the scoreboard could be different in missed kicks and disallowed/allowed tries. At best for Wales it was 2 point game as opposed to a 5 point game as both England tries hold up to scrutiny and 1/2p missed one kick.

At worst:
1/2p still misses his penalty.
Falateu's try gets disallowed -7pts so 12 pt game.
Ford kicks penalty +3pts, 15pt game
Ford makes conversion +2pts, 17pt game
Attwood's try is allowed and is converted +7pts, 24pt game

Those are things which regardless of performance on the night could of happened differently a potential 24 point game doesn't suggest to me Wales sured up well defensively as they could of lost by more than three try's if decisions/kicking had gone other ways.

agree, the scoring opportunities England eventually created show a lot more dominance in general play then the score suggests.

Of course converting those chances is another matter, but that is a different problem.

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That is just complete and utter rubbish. Go watch him destroy Leicester this season and last season, or how he reversed the scrum problems Wales were having with Gethin on last year against England.



James hasn't been poor for Bath this season though. May not be the complete international package, but is still an elite scrummaging prop who I'm glad is returning to the Ospreys next season. Also Gethin, despite getting regularly penalised off the park over the last 12 or so months, still has looked surprisingly sound despite various injuries in the loose. Notably put in a great shift against Leinster recently, and had one of his best loose performances against South Africa last year.

is the issue with Jenkins nowadays not more about consistency than ability?

 

[Every Time Ref]

James hasn't been poor for Bath this season though. May not be the complete international package, but is still an elite scrummaging prop who I'm glad is returning to the Ospreys next season.

He's been fine at best, if he gets away with his outrageous scrummaging angle he's pretty good, if he doesn't he's ineffective. Overall, that's not really top class in the premiership and certainly below parr for an international - however, I'm still saying he's better than Jenkins and should be starting for Wales.