[2015 Six Nations] England

[goodNumber10]

Brown/Foden on the wing didn't work, but I don't necessarily mind that experiment, as they have the skills. Tuilagi, on the other hand...

I didn't mind Foden on the wing to be honest, don't think we had many options at the time, didn't like brown there at all..

 

[Peat]

I'd kinda like to see Foden on the wing again tbh. And as for Brown on the wing, well, it was about as successful as much our wingers recently tbh. Only real glaring issue with that one was wasting our far and away best choice out of position. See Tuilagi on the wing.

GN10 - Yup.

 

[TheSaffycen]

In fairness Foden has all the pace a winger needs and is a good finisher. Having 2 fullbacks is also great for high balls, would be great against Ireland next Sunday.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Brown did significantly more than Foden did on the wing.

 

[goodNumber10]

Brown did significantly more than Foden did on the wing.

How do you reckon that?

 

[j'nuh]

My main problem with Brown was his defensive positioning. He just didn't know where to stand and how to move on the wing. That kind of thing inevitably comes with practice though, so if we had a long term vision of having him on the wing, then it could work out. But positional awareness is so key for a back three, that it would have to be a fairly committed position swap. I just don't see the point of it.

 

[Every Time Ref]

You read any of Greenwood's books? Found them a great aid in my brief venture into coaching.

I'd say, that in any case, instinct is analysis... it's simply when the brain does it so quickly and well, that you don't have any of the working out. Well. Hopefully well. Some people have bad instincts after all, and they're really difficult to coach.

I haven't read anything academic, thanks for the recommendation, I'll look into it. I have watched a fair amount of stuff on YouTube and The Rugby Site (which is excellent); I am quite badly hampered however by having zero coaching experience - I was supposed to be player-coaching my club this season but a mini-implosion at the start of the year has left us without a venue or enough players for training, so I haven't taken a single session ... !

I agree to some degree that instinct is analysis, but I do think there's slightly more to it. Maybe it makes a connection/follows a logical path which "slow analysis" (whatever you want to call it) wouldn't think of. Maybe it's analysis stripped of some of the assumptions and truisms built into "slow analysis"? Either way, do you agree there is some fundamental difference between "slow" and "fast" analysis?

good course, i did IRB level 2 (as i'm in France), but it was delivered by the RFU guy who came over and did it.

Found it much more useful than my level 1 which whilst cool didn't really give me the foundations i was looking for (I coach adults and it felt more geared towards teaching kids).

Yeah, I think they've changed it recently but it's now divided so L1 is kids and L2 is adults, and you can jump straight to L2 after the introductory courses, which is what I'm doing

There is a degree of experimentation that you can do on the international stage. You can play around with the backrow for balance. As Peat said, Wood at 8 wouldn't nearly be as bad if there was a ball carrying 6 and 7 alongside him. But the reason this works is that Wood is essentially a blindside with an 8 on his back. He doesn't have to adapt his game. The experiment is effectively over whether he can control the ball at the base of the scrum.

However, when he replaces the England 8, there's a level of carrying that goes missing that isn't filled. This is the type of experiment that is predictably going to go wrong. It assumes that Wood will suddenly improve his carrying game to be worthy of an international 8. It is never, ever going to happen in the brief time Lancaster has Wood for international periods. It's the type of experiment that needs to happen at club.

Brown/Foden on the wing didn't work, but I don't necessarily mind that experiment, as they have the skills. Tuilagi, on the other hand...

So yeah, experimentation isn't necessarily bad. But expecting a player to come up with skills that they don't have in order to adapt to a new position isn't quite so good.

Agree with this. Some choices seem bad just through common sense - but then, maybe coaches see something in training that we don't? Or even, something on the pitch? For all our discussion here, there is after all a good reason Lancaster is a high level coach and we're not. Sod's law, I can't think of a good example now, but there must be players who have excelled after switching position when all logic suggested they weren't right for it. Brad Thorn, league player to lock maybe?

 

[Every Time Ref]

In fairness Foden has all the pace a winger needs and is a good finisher. Having 2 fullbacks is also great for high balls, would be great against Ireland next Sunday.

Which is why I'm not surprised Lancaster looks like bringing in Goode rather than moving Watson

 

[goodNumber10]

I haven't read anything academic, thanks for the recommendation, I'll look into it. I have watched a fair amount of stuff on YouTube and The Rugby Site (which is excellent);

This is good: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Total-Rugby-Fifteen-man-Coach-Player/dp/0713666722

Greenwood is basically the forefather of Modern Rugby coaching:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Greenwood_(rugby_union)
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2010/sep/22/jim-greenwood-obituary-rugby

I am quite badly hampered however by having zero coaching experience - I was supposed to be player-coaching my club this season but a mini-implosion at the start of the year has left us without a venue or enough players for training, so I haven't taken a single session ... !

I feel your pain mate, we've struggled to get players along to training this year, and have had a really fractured season with big gaps which haven't helped.

When i first took over we were a nomadic team, trained at one clubs ground, played on a park picth and so on... but we ended up partnering up with a Federal club and use their facilities and play on their pitches.... it's worked out well .

 

[ratsapprentice]

How do you reckon that?

He didn't require space in order to be effective, Foden did.
Particularly in the team at that time, you weren't getting space as a winger.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Interesting piece of Matt Symons:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...acens-now-captaining-Sonny-Bill-Williams.html

 

[Every Time Ref]

This is good: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Total-Rugby-Fifteen-man-Coach-Player/dp/0713666722

Greenwood is basically the forefather of Modern Rugby coaching:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Greenwood_(rugby_union)
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2010/sep/22/jim-greenwood-obituary-rugby






I feel your pain mate, we've struggled to get players along to training this year, and have had a really fractured season with big gaps which haven't helped.

When i first took over we were a nomadic team, trained at one clubs ground, played on a park picth and so on... but we ended up partnering up with a Federal club and use their facilities and play on their pitches.... it's worked out well .

Ordered from Amazon, cheers.

The problem we have is the cost of hiring a ground, I'm sure it's the same in Paris but here in London it's so expensive so without enough players committing to it the committee understandably don't want to stump up over £100 a week for a session for 8 players

- - - Updated - - -

Interesting piece of Matt Symons:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...acens-now-captaining-Sonny-Bill-Williams.html

Very good story - interesting to hear him say that NZ cater better for late developers, I wonder how / why that is? Are there any other examples of players who were picked up outside of the academy system and became professionals, anywhere in the world? I can think of Rokoduguni and Easter off the top of my head.

Sounds like he is a man well worth trying to tempt back here, I cant' say I'd heard of him before reading but captaining the Chiefs can't be a bad thing. Do you reckon the NZRU would agree to an exchange for Ricky Flutey?

 

[TommiG88]

I will be honest, I've never heard of him. Hope he gets into the NZ side!

 

[Irishkid]

He is being heavily linked with us.

Brown did not work on the wing because he is to slow to play there.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Very good story - interesting to hear him say that NZ cater better for late developers, I wonder how / why that is? Are there any other examples of players who were picked up outside of the academy system and became professionals, anywhere in the world? I can think of Rokoduguni and Easter off the top of my head.

Sounds like he is a man well worth trying to tempt back here, I cant' say I'd heard of him before reading but captaining the Chiefs can't be a bad thing. Do you reckon the NZRU would agree to an exchange for Ricky Flutey?

Slater is another one.

 

[goodNumber10]

Slater is another one.

Owen Williams came through the clubs, he got let go by Ospreys academy as a teenager and played club rugby and then got picked up of the back of that.

Also Ben Morgan came through the junior ranks.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

He is being heavily linked with us.

Enjoying the prospect of this very much!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Very good story - interesting to hear him say that NZ cater better for late developers, I wonder how / why that is?

I think it's because they have much stronger links between levels - you can play for your amateur then semi pro then NPC then Super Rugby as a progression, whereas that doesn't really happen in England. Obviously there are "feeder" clubs, and also guys in the championship sometimes get picked up by Prem sides, but Premiership clubs tend to be self contained, identifying teenagers, getting them into their academy and then working with them until they're adults. They're not going to be looking at 20yr olds playing in the 4th tier as potential players (though this has happened a few time - I think Billy Meakes was playing third tier rugby before Gloucester).

 

[ratsapprentice]

Their system is far better rugby-wise.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

What do we all think of the rankings that put us above the Irish?

The following is the conclusion to the article I wrote.

To be honest, it doesn't really matter. People are getting worked up over nothing, but it is helping to fuel the hype before the game. Everything will be settled on March 1st, with the English looking to secure a vital victory away at the AVIVA and the Irish looking to assert themselves as the third, possibly second best team in the world. It will be a passionate contest and the more build-up we get to it the better it is as far as I'm concerned, flaring tempers and harsh banter will make this one of the biggest games of the year, even with the World Cup coming up.

Full article here: http://fourballsblog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/do-england-deserve-to-be-ranked-higher.html

Wondering what you guys think because there has been a lot of heated debate on Facebook!