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[2015 Six Nations] England

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Also I don't get the calls for Goode. It's not like his form has suddenly sky rocketed, hes always been really good for Sarries but never translated that to international level. I don't think that will have changed in the last 12 months.

No, but people's memories have...

In fairness, he does have some plus point at international level; his positioning and return kicking are very good. His biggest weakness was as a ball carrier, which was being exacerbated by being part of the most pedestrian back three England have seen in some time. Someone needed to be axed to allow for the inclusion of someone with actual talent in that field, and moving Brown to 15 for Goode was the most obvious move. Now, Brown is probably the least dangerous carrier in the back three on current form, and a lot of people are predicting the need for a territorial game. Who knows? Maybe it would work. Maybe they'd even allow him to try the whole second distributor thing he was meant to be doing.

Personally, I wouldn't, but at the same time, I do feel it would be kinda a shame if England never took a second swing at a player with the brain and technical skills of Goode. But then, I'm not sure a guy with such poor athleticism (by tier 1 international full-back standards) should get a second swing. I think what I'm saying is he needs to go back to fly-half...
 
Matt Banahan is doing very well in the air for Bath again. I rate Johnny May but he is more a player for a team that keeps possession. If England play a kicking game, might Banahan be the better option for kick chases?

Mate let it go HMS Banahan wasnt/isnt good enough for International rugby its the same with Jordan Crane, Tom Williams, Dan Hipkiss, Andy Goode etc etc. Great club players but thats it. No disgrace I used to struggle to get in the 3rds.
 
As I said - there's been some good reasons. But if you're saying he had no choice, I'm going to disagree vehemently. He had experienced players and chose not to use them. Take Haskell. You say he didn't really kick off. I say he put in a big performance that was instrumental in us getting a draw out of that third test in South Africa but never really received many starts as a result. Bluntly, I'd say he still hasn't kicked off for Lancaster. He's put in some very good games against top opposition, and his club form's been impeccable, he has a lot of international attributes and is our most experienced forward. But he hasn't kicked off and has never started two games in a row for Lancaster. Whose fault is that? Haskell's or Lancaster?
Haskell's the guy that people used to debate back on the 606 board on BBC whether he had any rugby intelligence to go with his brawn. That is, it's easy to point to Haskell as a player that Lancaster should have picked now that Haskell's doing well, but at the time I thought it was fairly unanimous that he wasn't worth all the caps he received under MJ and wasn't worthy of a starting spot going forward. He had the experience, but not the skill, and deserved to be overlooked. Different argument now maybe, or maybe not, because he has had pockets of form for his club sides in the past, and not once have I been overly impressed with him for England.

On the other hand, Robshaw had all the skill and none of the experience. You can find people calling for Robshaw to start for England all the way back to the middle of Johnson's reign. This is what I mean by MJ's failings - why did Haskell have all the caps he had, and Robshaw, easily the best flanker available at the time, had none?

Is it Foden's fault that after a solid Six Nations in 2012, Lancaster moved him to the wing and then only gave him one further start at full back? Did Lancaster do enough to play to Flood and Ashton's strengths? How comes Wilson only played 281 minutes between the end of World Cup and the 2014 Six Nations?
Foden: Foden on the wing was ridiculous, but I'm not sure what you would suggest he should have done with Foden otherwise? Foden dipped massively after 2010 and Brown not only earned his place, but has been one of England's star players over the Lancaster era.
Ashton: Another player that tanked after 2010 and hasn't looked the same since. This isn't him looking bad for just England; he hasn't looked international-level for Saints in the year before his move to Sarries, Sarries and England under two different coaches. Maybe Lancaster doesn't play to his strengths, but you don't restructure your game plan around an average player.
Flood: Fair enough, one player that was hard done by.

Talking about players being too old is bullcrap as well. The comparison between him and Schmidt came up; well, last year, Schmidt won a 6N with no small number of geriatrics, one of whom definitely won't make the World Cup and another couple who might not. But he's got a trophy and a confident squad to drop players into. We've got no trophies and a squad that's coming under pressure. Playing some older guys to help settle the transition and maybe win something - nothing wrong with that. I accept Nick Easter is not BOD, but the principle remains sound (and was used with Botha and Dowson, save they didn't actually have experience). Not to mention the fact that Nick Easter's back in the squad age 300, while Charlie Hodgson would probably be in the squad if he hadn't retired because some *** told him he wasn't needed long term. A prime example of valuing experience.
Easter was terrible in 2011. Honestly one of the worst starting players under MJ. There was also the controversy over his remarks made after going out to France in the WC. His renaissance in form 2012 onwards is good for him (in fact, didn't O'Shea say that it's the best he has ever been?) but if you go back to when Lancaster took over, I can't see a case for Easter at all, especially when Morgan was emerging as a fantastic player (and should have started the first 2012 Six Nations match). In fact, I'm still not sure whether he'll step up to international level. He never did before. It's worth a shot for his form I guess.

Not to mention the other experienced guys outside of the squad. Tait's the most versatile and experienced outside back in the country, and was playing some lovely stuff, but he's away. Monye's the best defensive wing available and a Lions tourist, but ignored. Would have been a far better fit than Strettle. Christ, Cueto would have been a better fit than him.
Cueto is not fast enough for international wing play, Tait is not dependable to keep injury-free and not good enough to be worth the risk. Monye? Meh...

Lancaster made some mistakes on wingers, but it's not because of experience. It's that he waits so long to change strategies that don't work. Has anyone been impressed with Goode in all the time he's been with Lancaster? Why did it take Lancaster so long to realise that fullback-on-the-wing never worked and that Ashton was terrible? Why bring in May so late, when his ability has been so blatant for so long?

Not saying every decision has been wrong. But there's been a good pool of guys with experience available and he's basically ignored it as much as possible. If experience has been a key issue, Lancaster's made some big mistakes.[/QUOTE]
 
Mate let it go HMS Banahan wasnt/isnt good enough for International rugby its the same with Jordan Crane, Tom Williams, Dan Hipkiss, Andy Goode etc etc. Great club players but thats it. No disgrace I used to struggle to get in the 3rds.

Except Banahan was last used internationally quite a while back so his current club form hasn't been tested internationally. His ability under the high ball isn't something that will just vanish when it comes to the international stage and considering England love using a kicking game without having good chasers, it seems like a sensible consideration. May is a fast chaser but I wouldn't bet on him to regain a kick or to take one in defense, I would with Banahan. If we were looking to play a possession and running game then fair enough but since we frequently use the kicking game, why don't we even consider a winger who has proven himself to be very good under high ball?
 
I love Banahan - he's a very entertaining player to watch when in form, but he isn't an international calibre player.
 
What can I say...

Anyone else seeing the massive amount of territory gained by Burrell trucking it up?
 
Surely the point is that he sets a target over the gainlne not that he runs 10m with people on his back.

Which is the actual point I was saying all along.

He breaks enough contact there as well just a lot of our end with a try, and in the second italy hit up he makes about 20 meters after breaking the contact in what was an obvious hit up.

Of course that's a highlights reel, but he's the next best gasoline (lol - i mean gainline) payer we've got to manu.
 
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If Farrell is truely crocked then I think Cips could well make the bench.
Though I also wouldn't put it past Lancaster to put Farrell on the bench when not fully fit.

Does mean we probably don't have to see Farrell at 12, which'll be nice.
 
I think maybe Myler on the bench in place of Farrell? I think Lancs sees Myler as a backup for Farrell and Cips as a backup for Ford
 
What can I say...

Anyone else seeing the massive amount of territory gained by Burrell trucking it up?

I agree with you about Burrell, but like he said we have no other effective wrecking ball other than Tuilagi. I think JJ has done more than enough but I have lost faith in Lancaster to pick who should be picked.
 
Of course that's a highlights reel, but he's the next best gasoline (lol - i mean gainline) payer we've got to manu.

I don't disagree, but he's second by a long distance.

He might set a target, but he's going to do it slowly against any of the first 4 choice Welsh centres, because he doesn't have the sort of physicality required to dominate them.
I don't think Burrell/Barritt are good enough in this regard to open up space out wide consistently.
Burrell might be one of the better options if you pick someone who has the ability to put him into a half gap/soft shoulders - he's a good strike runner.

Could a Ford or Cipriani do that on their own with someone like Barritt at 12?
I'm not convinced they could.
 
Since no one else has said it...

... what money on Burgess straight in?
 
And if we're going to be picking our team based on the way Wales play, then surely Burrell is ruled out based on his defence?

For me, you either cave to pressure and say "**** it, let's pick our best defending team" and go for 12. Barritt, 13. JJ
Or you pick the best all round combo we can and opt for Eastmond/JJ.

What would help any centre/backline combo we pick is forwards running on to the ball with a SH who doesn't bunch the team outside him to put their defensive line on the back foot for us to run at.

Since no one else has said it...

... what money on Burgess straight in?

Let's just hope that doesn't happen.
 
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Madness, but madness which I wouldn't entirely put past Lancaster/Farrell though.

Burrell, regardless of how he fits into the back line with his style of play is just on pretty poor form, isn't he? I haven't seen yesterday's game but it sounds like he was pretty awful, especially in defence, and Roberts opposite him was brilliant which doesn't exactly scream out to start him against Wales, even at 13. I rate him but he hasn't been great since coming back from injury.
 
Just realised that I've been saying all this on the assumption that 36 isn't going to be picked. :(
 
Just realised that I've been saying all this on the assumption that 36 isn't going to be picked. :(

Well he hasn't done anything noteworthy recently apart from missing a certain try by not passing to May.
 
i think people are being a bit harsh on Lancaster, he hasn't done much wrong in his time in charge - like most England Coaches he's got a poisoned chalice in regards to players being injured and building his first choice, but he hasn't exactly made loads of wild selection choices, i'm struggling to think of a decision he and his coaching team have made that can't be obviously rationalised if we're truly honest about it.

Yeah some are against the run of players being fit/in form but there isn't an international coach on the planet who doesn't do just that - AB's and Nonu anyone?

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I don't disagree, but he's second by a long distance.

I don't agree that he is... he's certainly a more complete player than Manu (he's just not as much a wrecking ball) and watching that video reminds us how awesome he was last 6Nations.

He might set a target, but he's going to do it slowly against any of the first 4 choice Welsh centres, because he doesn't have the sort of physicality required to dominate them.

Did he struggle last year then?


I don't think Burrell/Barritt are good enough in this regard to open up space out wide consistently.
Burrell might be one of the better options if you pick someone who has the ability to put him into a half gap/soft shoulders - he's a good strike runner.[/QUOTE

Could a Ford or Cipriani do that on their own with someone like Barritt at 12?
I'm not convinced they could.

Well he played outside Farrell last year, who everyone here seems to think couldn't pass wind properly, and he plays club rugby outside Stephen Myler who people posisbly think even less of than Farrell..... yet.

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And if we're going to be picking our team based on the way Wales play, then surely Burrell is ruled out based on his defence?

Why? he had one bad game yesterday, and last year he had a drop in form right before the 6nations - people can't be excellent week in week out, sometimes peopel just have bad days.

What would help any centre/backline combo we pick is forwards running on to the ball with a SH who doesn't bunch the team outside him to put their defensive line on the back foot for us to run at.

well quite.
 
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