[2015 Six Nations] England

[ratsapprentice]

Austin Healey's team for Wales:

1. Marler
2. Youngs
3. Wilson
4. Parling
5. Attwood
6. Clark
7. Haskell
8. Vunipola

9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Eastmond
13. Joseph
14. Wade
15. Watson

Watching that team play would be interesting to say the least.

Could you imagine if an England coach picked that backline?
Actually try to visualise that happening for a second.

 

[goodNumber10]

Half of that I did not understand. Shorthand isn't always helpful.

I've translated it for you:

Front ROW - Corbs – no destructive form as yet on return from injury and refs are hotter now on LH going round the side. Scrum was Very Good in AIs. Dylan Hartley on lineout stats (more importantly better on big moment throws), but also Tom Youngs better suited to raising speed and intensity from the bench.

Second Row – Attwood grunt, carrying, Parling game intelligence, work rate and line out (Launchbury and Lawes though walk back in when fit)

BACK ROW – Robshaw is a brilliant 6 (never, ever going to happen), BV obvious, JH (genuine physical intensity at breakdown) – has even learnt to offload a bit as well and is a better support runner than Wood. Robshaw a good enough lineout option (not a genuine 7 but until they ask Armitage back) (They'll go with TW though as BV is a complete non-option in the lineout (Haskell is good – see Dai Young in the Guardian but not as good as TW) – I'm happy enough with TW although not my preference)

Ben Youngs – better kicking game, still offers a running threat

GEORGE FORD – obvious

JOHNNY MAY – been excellent in all facets recently

LUTHER BURREL – GEORGE FORD played very well with Burgess e.g. a big runner fixing defenders – gives England a get out clause if fluency and momentum, quick ball is lacking in backline

Johnathan JOSEPH – even developing a bit of a kicking game. Running threat obvious and has learnt how to pass.

Christian Wade – Jason Robinson was small but offered something different - nobody doubted his ability. AW based on the squad available

Antohny WATSON – would prefer AW at FULLBACKto MIKE BROWN – Brown is too one dimensional a threat and not in form of last year – CW on the wing would cause a different type of problem but Lancaster won't take the risk. MB also never works with his wings/passes, or volunteers himself as a wider kicking option from set plays in his own 22


Bench – impact and a plan B i.e. an increase in game pace, all good breakdown forwards, offloading threat and two receivers in backline. GK can also cover 4,5, and 6. All forwards mobile and increased carrying threat with TY and MK. Both the DCs can increase the pace and provide a different type of threat in attack (see the NZ tests) - Cips can also play a tactical field position based game if required (see Sale - they are nto the Harlem Globe Trotters!). No need for specialist wing and FB cover (Cips can cover FB and/or Watson/May) JJ can cover wing. Eastmond really is a tactic changer - a tiring Roberts wouldn't fancy that challenge.

Finally, imagine if Steffon Armitage was an impact sub – what a change of pace that could bring….here's dreaming

JOE MARLER DYLAN HARTLEY DAVE WILSON

GEOFF PARLING DAVE ATTWOOD

CHRIS ROBSHAW BILLY VUNIPOLA JAMES HASKELL

BEN YOUNGS

GEORGE FORD

LUTHER BURRELL
JONATHAN JOSEPH
JOHNNY MAY ANTHONY WATSON (CW)

MIKE BROWN (AW)

BENCH: MAKO VUNIPOLA, TOM YOUNGS (RW), KIERAN BROOKES (Dan C if fit), GEORGE KRUIS (?), TOM WOOD, Danny C *2, Kyle EASTMOND

You'll notice Owen Farrell's absence. Never a bench option. Too inflexible. Everybody bangs on about striking a winning penalty but what if it is a drop goal or if we're further behind? I've never seen a fly half worse at drop goals than Owen Farrell.

Only part of the post i don't really agree with...

- - - Updated - - -

Austin Healey's team for Wales:

1. Marler
2. Youngs
3. Wilson
4. Parling
5. Attwood
6. Clark
7. Haskell
8. Vunipola

9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Eastmond
13. Joseph
14. Wade
15. Watson

Watching that team play would be interesting to say the least.

Could you imagine if an England coach picked that backline?
Actually try to visualise that happening for a second.

I just did what you said and we lost to Wales by 30 points.....

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I just did what you said and we lost to Wales by 30 points.....

That would mean Wales would have to score about 70 points!


That backline would score points; screw defence, lets just score more than we concede!
However, Healy is either forgetting or just doesn't care, that Wade isn't in the squad.

 

[goodNumber10]

That would mean Wales would have to score about 70 points!

na, once jamie roburst has skittled that midfield once the pack will never give the ball to them again.

That backline would score points; screw defence, lets just score more than we concede!

They should go an play touch rugby

However, Healy is either forgetting or just doesn't care, that Wade isn't in the squad.

I think it's the latter.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Based on that time that midfield combo was skittled that point is perfectly justified.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I've said all along I'm in not favour of the Bath 10-12-13 being transplanted en masse to England, but I'd back JJ to handle Davies's attacking threat comfortably for 80 minutes before I'd handle Davies to handle JJ's

 

[goodNumber10]

Based on that time that midfield combo was skittled that point is perfectly justified.

 

[Aristodemus]

I could see a number of different coaches picking that backline (perhaps not Wade) but unfortunately one of those coaches isn't Lancaster.

 

[spudungeyee]

How is Waldrom not in the squad?

 

[goodNumber10]

He's getting game time in the Saxons with the view of maybe bringing him in after the wolfhounds game.

 

[yaboyjj]

Good article in the guardian on England having the option of a plan A and plan B, unlike Wales. I’d Like Lancaster to give himself these options though rather than pick identical options in the 1st team and on the bench.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...nations-wales-warren-gatland-stuart-lancaster

From what is available here we go…

You’ll notice Owen Farrell’s absence. Never a bench option. Too inflexible. Everybody bangs on about striking a winning penalty but what if it is a drop goal or if we’re further behind? I’ve never seen a fly half worse at drop goals than Owen Farrell.


FR - Corbs â€" no destructive form as yet on return from injury and refs are hotter now on LH going round the side. Scrum was VG in AIs. DH on lineout stats (more importantly better on big moment throws), but also TY better suited to raising speed and intensity from the bench.

SR â€" Attwood grunt, carrying, Parling game intelligence, work rate and line out (Launchbury and Lawes though walk back in when fit)

BR â€" Robshaw is a brilliant 6 (never, ever going to happen), BV obvious, JH (genuine physical intensity at breakdown) â€" has even learnt to offload a bit as well and is a better support runner than Wood. Robshaw a good enough lineout option (not a genuine 7 but until they ask Armitage back) (They’ll go with TW though as BV is a complete non-option in the lineout (Haskell is good â€" see Dai Young in the Guardian but not as good as TW) â€" I’m happy enough with TW although not my preference)

BY â€" better kicking game, still offers a running threat

GF â€" obvious

JM â€" been excellent in all facets recently

LB â€" GF played very well with Burgess e.g. a big runner fixing defenders â€" gives England a get out clause if fluency and momentum, quick ball is lacking in backline

JJ â€" even developing a bit of a kicking game. Running threat obvious and has learnt how to pass.

Christian Wade â€" Jason Robinson was small but offered something different - nobody doubted his ability. AW based on the squad available

AW â€" would prefer AW at FB to MB â€" Brown is too one dimensional a threat and not in form of last year â€" CW on the wing would cause a different type of problem but Lancaster won’t take the risk. MB also never works with his wings/passes, or volunteers himself as a wider kicking option from set plays in his own 22


Bench â€" impact and a plan B i.e. an increase in game pace, all good breakdown forwards, offloading threat and two receivers in backline. GK can also cover 4,5, and 6. All forwards mobile and increased carrying threat with TY and MK. Both the DCs can increase the pace and provide a different type of threat in attack (see the NZ tests) - Cips can also play a tactical field position based game if required (see Sale - they are nto the Harlem Globe Trotters!). No need for specialist wing and FB cover (Cips can cover FB and/or Watson/May) JJ can cover wing. Eastmond really is a tactic changer - a tiring Roberts wouldn’t fancy that challenge.

Finally, imagine if Steffon Armitage was an impact sub â€" what a change of pace that could bring….here’s dreaming

JM DH DW

GP DA

CR BV JH

BY

GF

LB
JJ
JM AW (CW)

MB (AW)

BENCH: MV, TY (RW), KB (Dan C if fit), GK, TW, Danny C *2, KE

I like the thinking behind most of that team, and bringing impact from the bench is something that should be an 'X' factor in the England squad given the depth and variety of choices available in each position.
My choices would be pretty much the same, although probably swapping Kitchener for Kruis and Ewers for Wood (either Wood starts or is not in the 23 as he would bring next to no impact from the bench) also Simpson would be nice.
Who would cover wing though with Cipriani/Eastmond on the bench?

 

[Peat]

I'm not sure it's not a fair comparison look at the make up of the ireland squad and look at the english squad - think haskell is the highest capped player (?), Irleand have a whole spine of british lions currently playing, england ave pockets of them...

Irelands captain last year, 141 caps, this year 96, and you run through the team.... the last AI's and 6nations and you get a similar pitcure.

also Gatland on the gob again:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/30924040

It's a valid point, but then Lancaster hasn't exactly made a virtue of experience. Haskell's not been that involved, Flood ended up on the sidelines, Easter was excluded for three years before magically popping back up, Monye's barely featured, Tait hasn't at all, Wilson got very little gametime until Cole's injury. Not that there haven't been good reasons for some of these, but it's been very much Lancaster's choice to rebuild from the bottom up.


edit: I initially thought tdh was advocating Charlie Walker.

Also... I think Burrell/Joseph is my preferred centre pairing for this. If I trusted Twelvetrees, I'd go back to Twelvetrees/Burrell with Joseph on the bench, but I'd need to see him in training and I can't. Eastmond/Joseph just asks too much of the pack imo.

 

[j'nuh]

He's getting game time in the Saxons with the view of maybe bringing him in after the wolfhounds game.

But isn't it odd that Easter simply leapfrogged Waldrom into the full squad? I mean, Lancaster talks about Easter being experienced and all, but he hasn't had a minute inside a Lancaster camp. Waldrom has been in and out of it fairly regularly, and has a bunch of experience himself, and is in cracking form

It's a valid point, but then Lancaster hasn't exactly made a virtue of experience. Haskell's not been that involved, Flood ended up on the sidelines, Easter was excluded for three years before magically popping back up, Monye's barely featured, Tait hasn't at all, Wilson got very little gametime until Cole's injury. Not that there haven't been good reasons for some of these, but it's been very much Lancaster's choice to rebuild from the bottom up.

tbf, Lancaster's experienced options were very thin when he took over, partially because of a few retirements and partially because MJ's failings. The England squad for the 2011 WC was:
Hartley, Mears, Thompson, Cole, Corbisiero, Stevens, Wilson, Deacon, Lawes, Palmer, Shaw, Croft, Haskell, Moody, Wood, Easter, Waldrom, Wigglesworth, Simpson, Flood, Wilkinson, Hape, Tindall, Tuilagi, Armitage, Ashton, Banahan, Cueto, Foden

Of this 30, 8 were too old (32+) to have a realistic England future and another 5 had less than 10 caps. The young enough and experienced options open to Lancaster were:
Hartley, Cole, Corbs, Lawes, Stevens, Wilson, Deacon, Croft, Haskell, Youngs, Flood, Hape, Armitage, Ashton, Banahan, Cueto, Foden

Between players not being good enough (Stevens, Deacon, Hape, Banahan, Cueto), injury (Croft, Corbisiero), France-movers (Armitage), you end up with:
Hartley, Cole, Lawes, Wilson, Haskell, Youngs, Flood, Ashton, Foden

Some of these just didn't really kick off under Lancaster (Youngs, Ashton, Foden, Haskell until now). And none of these players are 60+ cappers. They were all around 10-30ish caps. So yeah, not a particularly experienced squad to inherit.

Lancaster's failing, for me, is that he squandered too many caps in his rebuilding process by reacting too late to failed experiments/selections.

 

[Crapspray]

But isn't it odd that Easter simply leapfrogged Waldrom into the full squad?

Yes and no. Neither are likely to play any senior rugby; give the Saxons games to the player who might need the experience/be looked at in more detail.

Same for Kvesic over Clark really. I like to think (in complete denial) that Clark is just a placeholder and Kvesic was dropped down for the experience.

Plus the other 8 choices are moving Ewers across (a waste) or bringing in Crane (shudder), so I don't mind Waldrom dropping down.

 

[j'nuh]

Yes and no. Neither are likely to play any senior rugby; give the Saxons games to the player who might need the experience/be looked at in more detail.

Same for Kvesic over Clark really. I like to think (in complete denial) that Clark is just a placeholder and Kvesic was dropped down for the experience.

Plus the other 8 choices are moving Ewers across (a waste) or bringing in Crane (shudder), so I don't mind Waldrom dropping down.

Gareth Evans.

It's ridiculous that he was overlooked completely imo.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Lol

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Yes and no. Neither are likely to play any senior rugby; give the Saxons games to the player who might need the experience/be looked at in more detail.

Same for Kvesic over Clark really. I like to think (in complete denial) that Clark is just a placeholder and Kvesic was dropped down for the experience.

Plus the other 8 choices are moving Ewers across (a waste) or bringing in Crane (shudder), so I don't mind Waldrom dropping down.

I guess you haven't seen Clarke okay this season then? He has been fantastic, 10 times better than wood.

Fierce in the contact and the ruck and a good short carrier. Good target in the line out too.

Kvesic isn't as good as people make out. Robshaw has been brilliant, much better total form than kvesic

 

[ratsapprentice]

Lol

That's what it's like when you mention that Simpson lad.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

But isn't it odd that Easter simply leapfrogged Waldrom into the full squad? I mean, Lancaster talks about Easter being experienced and all, but he hasn't had a minute inside a Lancaster camp. Waldrom has been in and out of it fairly regularly, and has a bunch of experience himself, and is in cracking form


tbf, Lancaster's experienced options were very thin when he took over, partially because of a few retirements and partially because MJ's failings. The England squad for the 2011 WC was:
Hartley, Mears, Thompson, Cole, Corbisiero, Stevens, Wilson, Deacon, Lawes, Palmer, Shaw, Croft, Haskell, Moody, Wood, Easter, Waldrom, Wigglesworth, Simpson, Flood, Wilkinson, Hape, Tindall, Tuilagi, Armitage, Ashton, Banahan, Cueto, Foden

Of this 30, 8 were too old (32+) to have a realistic England future and another 5 had less than 10 caps. The young enough and experienced options open to Lancaster were:
Hartley, Cole, Corbs, Lawes, Stevens, Wilson, Deacon, Croft, Haskell, Youngs, Flood, Hape, Armitage, Ashton, Banahan, Cueto, Foden

Between players not being good enough (Stevens, Deacon, Hape, Banahan, Cueto), injury (Croft, Corbisiero), France-movers (Armitage), you end up with:
Hartley, Cole, Lawes, Wilson, Haskell, Youngs, Flood, Ashton, Foden

Some of these just didn't really kick off under Lancaster (Youngs, Ashton, Foden, Haskell until now). And none of these players are 60+ cappers. They were all around 10-30ish caps. So yeah, not a particularly experienced squad to inherit.

Lancaster's failing, for me, is that he squandered too many caps in his rebuilding process by reacting too late to failed experiments/selections.

Hopefully the new lot of U20's world cup winners will change the situation for England in the next few years. Too late for this world cup but leading up to the next one, the fruits of a good U20's system will begin to appear.

 

[j'nuh]

I guess you haven't seen Clarke okay this season then? He has been fantastic, 10 times better than wood.

Fierce in the contact and the ruck and a good short carrier. Good target in the line out too.

Kvesic isn't as good as people make out. Robshaw has been brilliant, much better total form than kvesic

Seriously, he's won like half of the Gloucester man of the match awards this season.