[2015 RWC] Warm Up Match: England vs France (15/08/2015)

[goodNumber10]

The fundamental issue with the absurd expectations placed on Burgess is that the vast majority of people haven't actually watched him play very many RL games, if any at all.

They watched one of the highlight videos and failed to appreciate what made him so exceptional - workrate paired with a consistently high level of physicality in defence and with ball in hand.

exactly, he is a monster but he is not a creative player - and to be fair neither is Sonny Bill Williams.

It's just abou do the core things over and over again and monstrously well.

 

[TobesHodges]

I think the best 12 at the moment and what every inside centre should try and mould there self on is Matt Toomua, great running game, hugely physical and a kicking game that rivals most world class 10's IMO..

 

[Every Time Ref]

I can't agree that Burrell doesn't offer much in attack for England - he's a little prone to forcing things it seems, but he definitely has ability - or that Twelvetrees is prone to mistakes in defence.

I also think people expect too much from crash 12s; you expect them to bend the line, not break it.

He has ability no doubt but since he's been at inside for England he hasn't really bent the line that hard, his hands and decision making have been fairly shaky and he has felt anonymous much of the time. I can't think of a recent game where he's really felt threatening.

With Twelvetrees I don't mean he makes noticeable howlers, but regular wrong decisions and/or positioning. I'm remembering the Australia game for example (I think the last time he started?) feeling he was a bit lost all the time.

The fundamental issue with the absurd expectations placed on Burgess is that the vast majority of people haven't actually watched him play very many RL games, if any at all.

They watched one of the highlight videos and failed to appreciate what made him so exceptional - workrate paired with a consistently high level of physicality in defence and with ball in hand.

...which suits a blindside's skillset better than a 12's, as Ford said all along.

I think the best 12 at the moment and what every inside centre should try and mould there self on is Matt Toomua, great running game, hugely physical and a kicking game that rivals most world class 10's IMO..

Agree entirely. I don't know why Australia have been messing around trying to work out what their best 10-12 combo is, 12 should've been nailed on, they just needed to decide between Foley, Giteau and (ha!) Cooper at 10.

 

[Peat]

He has ability no doubt but since he's been at inside for England he hasn't really bent the line that hard, his hands and decision making have been fairly shaky and he has felt anonymous much of the time. I can't think of a recent game where he's really felt threatening.

With Twelvetrees I don't mean he makes noticeable howlers, but regular wrong decisions and/or positioning. I'm remembering the Australia game for example (I think the last time he started?) feeling he was a bit lost all the time.

Still don't agree Burrell's ran hard and effectively - and also into space at times too - it's just his hands and decision making letting him down and throwing away good positions. That's a pretty major downside, but it you feel he simply doesn't carry the ball well enough at 12, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Ditto Twelvetrees' defence, although since I rarely inspect defence that hard, I might be wrong.

 

[goodNumber10]

Still don't agree Burrell's ran hard and effectively - and also into space at times too - it's just his hands and decision making letting him down and throwing away good positions. That's a pretty major downside, but it you feel he simply doesn't carry the ball well enough at 12, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Ditto Twelvetrees' defence, although since I rarely inspect defence that hard, I might be wrong.

36's biggest issue is his decision making on ball. His defence is OK, bar occasionally getting bumped.

On Burrell, maybe he just doesn't play well Off Ford, he is better off a 10 who passes flat (Fazlet, Myler & Cipriani) rather than a 10 like Ford who comes to the line or looks to pass deep to second wave runners.

Also agree about bend not break the line - that's a really big point.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Still don't agree Burrell's ran hard and effectively - and also into space at times too - it's just his hands and decision making letting him down and throwing away good positions. That's a pretty major downside, but it you feel he simply doesn't carry the ball well enough at 12, we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Ditto Twelvetrees' defence, although since I rarely inspect defence that hard, I might be wrong.

Stick to your rucks, OK flankboy?!

I do think it can be hard to assess defence on an individual level since it is so much a system thing, and one player's bad decision can leave another looking the idiot - so yeah, I could easily be misreading 12T unfairly. The reason the Aus game stuck in my mind is I happened to have a spot in Twickenham right at the top of the third tier and facing basically down the pitch, about the perfect spot to analyse the backs' defence from so I felt pretty confident of my assessments that day (you don't often get the best angles on TV)

Re: Burrell - thinking it over, it's not that he doesn't carry the ball well enough full stop, it's that he doesn't do it well enough to make up for the issues. Tuilagi also has weaknesses but I'm far more relaxed saying, whatever Manu, we'll work on that later, for now just take this and run that way, K?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Agree entirely. I don't know why Australia have been messing around trying to work out what their best 10-12 combo is, 12 should've been nailed on, they just needed to decide between Foley, Giteau and (ha!) Cooper at 10.

It's because they changed their whole selection process, potentially doing massive damage to domestic rugby, to get Giteau into the side....and he's then said he doesn't want to play 10, so now they've got to screw over Toomua and Leiliiafano for him.

 

[Every Time Ref]

It's because they changed their whole selection process, potentially doing massive damage to domestic rugby, to get Giteau into the side....and he's then said he doesn't want to play 10, so now they've got to screw over Toomua and Leiliiafano for him.

So you ... like Giteau?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Burrells defence leaves as much to be desired as 12trees imo. For a guy of his size, he is suprisingly passive defending and is very poor at stopping players from going around him. Ford struggles in defence because of his size but at least he consistantly makes the tackles, Burrell doesn't even make a proper attempt at tackling too many times. I don't think having those 2 trying to defend next to each other will work well.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Burrells defence leaves as much to be desired as 12trees imo. For a guy of his size, he is suprisingly passive defending and is very poor at stopping players from going around him. Ford struggles in defence because of his size but at least he consistantly makes the tackles, Burrell doesn't even make a proper attempt at tackling too many times. I don't think having those 2 trying to defend next to each other will work well.

As a saints fan I must say that's spot on, sometimes he just doesn't tackle, no attempt or anything which is probably a positioning/ communication issue.

If ppl didn't see it as well Jamie Roberts destroyed him in Euro games, it was embarrassing !