[2015 RWC] Quarter Final 3: Ireland vs. Argentina (18/10/2015)

[tompaton7]

Tell you what, I reckon this game might have the best atmosphere of the tournament. Argies and Irish have had the best support of the tournament.

 

[munstermuffin]

Would the coaching staff ever consider doing that?...would rather he pulled out the team if that's the case

It's happened before at all provincial sides. But no they will not risk him if there is clear dangerous signs.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Two questions:
1) do you expect Ireland to put the same amount of pressure as, say, NZ?
2) That plan didn't appear to work against Italy, despite Italy losing a lot of balls to Irish high kicks because of own (unforced) handling errors. Why do you think that was?

1) In a different way, yes. NZ attack wide (once they're in the attacking third), Ireland tend to keep coming round the corner, rucking aggressively and going again and again, building pressure until something breaks. Not to say they are as good overall as the All Blacks, but as I said their particular gameplan is built on pressure and Argentina struggle with relieving pressure
2) I didn't watch that game unfortunately. As I understand it, Ireland played poorly and didn't keep that pressure on as they normally would; Italy probably defend more aggressively than Argentina which may have contributed, perhaps they also kicked better (although if Haimona was 10 I doubt it ... )

This is just my observation of course, I'd be interested to know if you agree as someone who I assume watches more Argentina games than me (although I try to catch as many as possible)

When Ireland have their tails up, they are one of the best teams at putting pressure. It happens rarely but as I mentioned before the French game (11 vs Eng, 13 vs NZ, 14 vs Wales and 15 vs England) - they play like men possessed.

Can they summon the energy to do it again against a physical Argentina? I suspect POC will galvanize them to do it. Problem is..SOB, POM and POC are the best at this.

Problem is any poor kicks (I agree with Every Time Ref) will gift some extremely talented Pumas space and possession. However, unlike Tonga and Namibia, it isn't likely they can score from their own 22 past Tommy B and D Kearney.

This is why Sexton is key. Sexton and Murray both kicking at their best, I can't see Argentina releasing the pressure; maybe if Madigan has a shaky day the field opens up and Ireland's gameplan starts to unravel.

 

[BridgnorthBruin]

Personally I don't believe Sexton will be fit and talk of him starting is more in hope than expectation. If nothing else it will keep Argentina guessing.

Madigan was almost literally the hero of the hour against France. I feared the worst when Sexton left the field at 6-6 but Madigan's decision making, execution and work rate was first class.
I think he benefitted from not having much time to consider the prospect of playing France for such a large proportion of the game; all week he would have expected 20 minutes of game time max.
However, this week he must prepare for 80 minutes of a knockout game with the heightened expectations and terrible consequences should he not perform so well. His first kick, whether to touch or towards the posts will be huge, much like it was against France. I hope he excells and keeps his emotions in check. He is clearly a confident character but we need calm, considered game management, the two sides could finish within 3 points of one another.

I've been lucky enough to go to the first three ireland games. The atmosphere was electric and I cannot wait for this one. The Millenium Stadium offers us a huge advantage given that we've been based at Celtic Manor for most of this tournament and we play there atleast once every two years.

I was at the Argentina vs Namibia game. Argentina had made 11 changes so the performance is irrelivent but clearly their stars will be primed and ready for this Sundays encounter.
The Argentine fans were brilliant, there must have been atleast 10-12k inside the Leicester City Stadium but it sounded like a lot more. They will have known their quarter final game long before the Irish (I gambled on Thursday and it has paid off) so I expect to see a lot of blue and white supporting the Pumas.

I'm looking forward to an epic clash with lots of passion and pride on display on and off the field. May the ref keep his cards in his pocket and the best team win without any controvesy.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Thanks for the response

1) In a different way, yes. NZ attack wide (once they're in the attacking third), Ireland tend to keep coming round the corner, rucking aggressively and going again and again, building pressure until something breaks. Not to say they are as good overall as the All Blacks, but as I said their particular gameplan is built on pressure and Argentina struggle with relieving pressure
2) I didn't watch that game unfortunately. As I understand it, Ireland played poorly and didn't keep that pressure on as they normally would; Italy probably defend more aggressively than Argentina which may have contributed, perhaps they also kicked better (although if Haimona was 10 I doubt it ... )

This is just my observation of course, I'd be interested to know if you agree as someone who I assume watches more Argentina games than me (although I try to catch as many as possible)

I understand your logic, but we start from different premises. We obviously see very different things in Argentina. About 1), i think that, considering the alternatives, that plays in Argentina's favor. I much rather face a relentless rucking team than someone who comes at us and plays wide. Maybe i'm too confident in our forwards. I will give you their line out is better, but i'm not particularly worried about rucks, mauls or scrums.
You mention the pressure Ireland will put on us but i think you are overlooking the pressure we can put on them. Look the all black's game. The try and both of the ABs yellow cards came from the pressure we put on them.

About point 2) i find it hard to agree with that. I don't think Italy's defense is more aggressive than Argentina's.

Last, i think (sorry, hope) pressure will play to our advantage. We are the underdogs (using betting stats as the closest proxy), we are playing further away from home, there will less fans in the stadium. We tend to do ok under those circumstances. Then add injuries and citations to the equation.

A concern I have is concentration during the first 5-10 minutes. Can't really point my finger on why, thou. Maybe it was Namibia's game, although that was more of a training exercise (for both).

Don't get me wrong, not saying we will win, but i can't help it but to smile when i see an overconfident irish fan. Doing my best to put my bias aside, i'd say it's 50-50.

 

[ABs2011]

So what is the inside word on Sexton? Last I read someone who seemed close to the team was saying he was throwing up post the France game and therefore it seemed he had concussion but that the Irish were trying to cover that up with a different injury. Eitehr way, whether Sexton plays or not seems to me to be key for this game, particulalry with the other big losses Ireland have had for this game.

 

[munstermuffin]

So what is the inside word on Sexton? Last I read someone who seemed close to the team was saying he was throwing up post the France game and therefore it seemed he had concussion but that the Irish were trying to cover that up with a different injury. Eitehr way, whether Sexton plays or not seems to me to be key for this game, particulalry with the other big losses Ireland have had for this game.

He was throwing up. I've got that on 100% fact. But that could be because of any of a number of reasons. If Sexton misses the game it's obviously a blow. But what made the French game so good for us was when Madigan was at 10 he was flat and had the French defensive line threatened which bought time for everyone else.
On a separate note. Have heard from Earlsy and he's ok. Was a dead arm effect on his bicep but nothing serious. It didn't force him off either.

 

[big ginger 8]

Thanks for the response

I understand your logic, but we start from different premises. We obviously see very different things in Argentina. About 1), i think that, considering the alternatives, that plays in Argentina's favor. I much rather face a relentless rucking team than someone who comes at us and plays wide. Maybe i'm too confident in our forwards. I will give you their line out is better, but i'm not particularly worried about rucks, mauls or scrums.
You mention the pressure Ireland will put on us but i think you are overlooking the pressure we can put on them. Look the all black's game. The try and both of the ABs yellow cards came from the pressure we put on them.

About point 2) i find it hard to agree with that. I don't think Italy's defense is more aggressive than Argentina's.

Last, i think (sorry, hope) pressure will play to our advantage. We are the underdogs (using betting stats as the closest proxy), we are playing further away from home, there will less fans in the stadium. We tend to do ok under those circumstances. Then add injuries and citations to the equation.

A concern I have is concentration during the first 5-10 minutes. Can't really point my finger on why, thou. Maybe it was Namibia's game, although that was more of a training exercise (for both).

Don't get me wrong, not saying we will win, but i can't help it but to smile when i see an overconfident irish fan. Doing my best to put my bias aside, i'd say it's 50-50.

I can't help but feel you've said this before...maybe give it a rest? Everyone knows you believe Irish fans are undeservedly cocky at every WC now, so you've gotten your message through.

Anyway based on the what we know at the moment I imagine it'll be a team of

1. Healy (although I'd rather McGrath starts)
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Toner
5. Henderson
6. Murphy
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. D. Kearney
12. Henshaw
13. Earls
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Strauss
17. McGrath
18. White
19. Ryan
20. Ruddock
21. Reddan
22. Madigan
23. Fitzgerald

I'm very nervous for this game, it'll take a huge amount of accuracy and intensity but we're definitely capable of getting the result (I know so cocky!!!!). As others have said it will definitely be an incredible atmosphere.

 

[munstermuffin]

I can't help but feel you've said this before...maybe give it a rest? Everyone knows you believe Irish fans are undeservedly cocky at every WC now, so you've gotten your message through.

Anyway based on the what we know at the moment I imagine it'll be a team of

1. Healy (although I'd rather McGrath starts)
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Toner
5. Henderson
6. Murphy
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. D. Kearney
12. Henshaw
13. Earls
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Strauss
17. McGrath
18. White
19. Ryan
20. Ruddock
21. Reddan
22. Madigan
23. Fitzgerald

I'm very nervous for this game, it'll take a huge amount of accuracy and intensity but we're definitely capable of getting the result (I know so cocky!!!!). As others have said it will definitely be an incredible atmosphere.

Either that or would he go Ryan and Toner with Henderson at 6.
For this game would he be tempted to throw McCarthy on bench considering Ruddock fitness.
Regardless it's great that even though we've lost a few there's still very good options available.

 

[Pampas]

Marcelo Bosch was suspended for the game. possible replacements are Moroni, De la Fuente and Agulla.

 

[dunney77]

Surely you would have Ryan, Toner and Henderson? This means we have two jumpers who have been in constant use this World Cup and another in Ryan. Henderson would take up the POM role - which he did great in against France.

Was just thinking about Payne and how we were sure he was going to be fine for FRA. Makes me doubt the hope that sexton will make it

 

[Every Time Ref]

Thanks for the response

I understand your logic, but we start from different premises. We obviously see very different things in Argentina. About 1), i think that, considering the alternatives, that plays in Argentina's favor. I much rather face a relentless rucking team than someone who comes at us and plays wide. Maybe i'm too confident in our forwards. I will give you their line out is better, but i'm not particularly worried about rucks, mauls or scrums.
You mention the pressure Ireland will put on us but i think you are overlooking the pressure we can put on them. Look the all black's game. The try and both of the ABs yellow cards came from the pressure we put on them.

About point 2) i find it hard to agree with that. I don't think Italy's defense is more aggressive than Argentina's.

Last, i think (sorry, hope) pressure will play to our advantage. We are the underdogs (using betting stats as the closest proxy), we are playing further away from home, there will less fans in the stadium. We tend to do ok under those circumstances. Then add injuries and citations to the equation.

A concern I have is concentration during the first 5-10 minutes. Can't really point my finger on why, thou. Maybe it was Namibia's game, although that was more of a training exercise (for both).

Don't get me wrong, not saying we will win, but i can't help it but to smile when i see an overconfident irish fan. Doing my best to put my bias aside, i'd say it's 50-50.

Scrums won't be a problem, I back Argentina there, mauls could go either way. It's not that I think you'll struggle with individual rucks but repeated rucks phase after phase I think you lack the line speed to reverse the tide. Maybe I'll turn out to be wrong, I hope so - I'm going to the game and supporting Argentina.

I definitely agree with you that it's about 50-50. Ireland slight favourites if you force me to choose, but neither result would be a shock.

 

[Horacito]

Horacito is the man, he was able to hold back Kuridrani last year. He is a great defender and a great tackler and a rock. A ROCK.

Horacito da man.

 

[Jaguares]

VAMOS PUMAS, CARAJO!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MunsterMan]

If Sexton is not fully fit we should leave him out altogether. Madigan showed he can produce under pressure, and while Jackson probably has yet to prove this, he is a tremendous 10 in his own right.

 

[Luke2009]

Why was Cronin out of match day squad the last day?
paddy Jackson has to be on bench if sexton is out not a great situation.
think I would put Ryan in team and Henderson at 6 and leave Murphy and mccarthy come off bench

 

[Xapi]

Scrums won't be a problem, I back Argentina there, mauls could go either way. It's not that I think you'll struggle with individual rucks but repeated rucks phase after phase I think you lack the line speed to reverse the tide. Maybe I'll turn out to be wrong, I hope so - I'm going to the game and supporting Argentina.

I definitely agree with you that it's about 50-50. Ireland slight favourites if you force me to choose, but neither result would be a shock.

The Pumas have been pretty great at rucking on defense, recovering many balls even though the tackles were failing hard. (I'm talking specially vs Tonga).

So Although I see your point, this could be decided on how well the Irish defend the ball at rucks.

 

[Manti]

The Pumas have been pretty great at rucking on defense, recovering many balls even though the tackles were failing hard. (I'm talking specially vs Tonga).

So Although I see your point, this could be decided on how well the Irish defend the ball at rucks.

This could go either way, full respect to the Puma's they have proved they are no mugs, I see this been a 50/50, with Ireland to win hopefully...
I just fancy us to go the whole way even with injury's, and citing's on both sides.

But if Argentine do win Go Puma's.

 

[sixesauldman]

The Pumas have been pretty great at rucking on defense, recovering many balls even though the tackles were failing hard. (I'm talking specially vs Tonga).

So Although I see your point, this could be decided on how well the Irish defend the ball at rucks.

Have never seen a rugby match at any level which was not decided around the ruck, thought Ireland's display against France was superb in that regard, Argentina are a fine team and are deserving the greatest respect but have been our intended fifth contest since the draw and are beatable. I strongly feel Sexton needs pulling and Jackson called in, I don't think Johnny's is 100% all comp, having admired Mads from afar since first sighting, POM's I see as our greatest loss, back rowers we do have.

 

[PacDuran]

I can't help but feel you've said this before...maybe give it a rest? Everyone knows you believe Irish fans are undeservedly cocky at every WC now, so you've gotten your message through.

Anyway based on the what we know at the moment I imagine it'll be a team of

1. Healy (although I'd rather McGrath starts)
2. Best
3. Ross
4. Toner
5. Henderson
6. Murphy
7. Henry
8. Heaslip
9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. D. Kearney
12. Henshaw
13. Earls
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Strauss
17. McGrath
18. White
19. Ryan
20. Ruddock
21. Reddan
22. Madigan
23. Fitzgerald

I'm very nervous for this game, it'll take a huge amount of accuracy and intensity but we're definitely capable of getting the result (I know so cocky!!!!). As others have said it will definitely be an incredible atmosphere.

I hope Earles doesn't start. I don't trust him. That knock on with the try line begging will live long in the memory. It was a huge moment in a huge game and he totally 100% muffed it!

Madigan at 13 maybe?