[2015 RWC] Pool A: England vs. Australia (03/10/2015)

[McTallshort]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rug...-is-blunder-that-could-bury-england-1.2371821

Gordon D'Arcy's take on Burgess trying to play 12, saying he(Burgess) hasn't got a clue.

That's pretty damming stuff from a guy who knows his game and when it's explained like that even a daft old forward like me can see it. For all his big hits and big carries the Welsh were only troubled once and that was down to North losing concentration. Trying to make Barriet a creative centre while babysitting a newbie? Who made the decision to start that backline? First time our forwards have shoved the Welsh about for years and its all blown by poor selection in the backs.

 

[msf]

Zed, could Umaga spin pass of his left? I can´t remember seeing him do it.

 

[spartan32]

I might risk being a little controversial here but I'm gonna throw it out there. So far most people are going on about how England would be the first host nation to fail to get out of their group, but if memory serves no other home nation has ever had a group like ours. Add to that the fact that Wales and Aus are both above us in the IRB world rankings, is it so hard to believe that we may struggle a bit to get to the quarters? May a bit of that English arrogance have kicked in with the belief that we are much better then we actually are? We certainly have the personnel to get through but it was never gonna be a white wash clean sail through.

That being said if we don't get through SL has to go, and we need to get a SH coach like the rest of our NH brethren.

 

[Hulkster]

Yeah Burgess at 12 really limits the English backline. You need a 12 that can slot in at 10. No way he can do that. Can you imagine Farrell/Ford getting tackled on the opposing teams 22, SB comes in at first receiver with a 2 man overlap, he'd probably just hit it up or throw a slow pass. I like him, but he's not a 12. At least not a complete 12. Perhaps if he was able to make a few more breaks/half breaks & off-loads his other inadequacies would be negated.

All of this is equally true for Barritt.

 

[Mattybuck]

Not sure I agree fully with the idea of a SH coach. There are plenty of English coaches who are getting their teams to play exciting rugby such as Rob Baxter, Mike Ford etc, however not sure either of those would want the job now.

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Don't think I've seen anyone on here say that Burgess is a great centre tbh but we have got what we've got, and given the choice I'd pick big Sam over Brad.

 

[TommiG88]

I might risk being a little controversial here but I'm gonna throw it out there. So far most people are going on about how England would be the first host nation to fail to get out of their group, but if memory serves no other home nation has ever had a group like ours. Add to that the fact that Wales and Aus are both above us in the IRB world rankings, is it so hard to believe that we may struggle a bit to get to the quarters? May a bit of that English arrogance have kicked in with the belief that we are much better then we actually are? We certainly have the personnel to get through but it was never gonna be a white wash clean sail through.

That being said if we don't get through SL has to go, and we need to get a SH coach like the rest of our NH brethren.

Haha. Wales have been below us for quite a while before last weekend.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Not sure I agree fully with the idea of a SH coach. There are plenty of English coaches who are getting their teams to play exciting rugby such as Rob Baxter, Mike Ford etc, however not sure either of those would want the job now.

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Don't think I've seen anyone on here say that Burgess is a great centre tbh but we have got what we've got, and given the choice I'd pick big Sam over Brad.

Our next coach must be someone with a proven track record at international level. We have huge player depth and more financial resources than anyone else yet we persist in putting the team in the hands of the likes of Johnson and Lancaster who were utterly unproven as coaches or managers at any significant level and we're surprised when they underwhelm? Pick the right man, regardless of what's on his birth certificate. Why we can't produce these coaches is another matter, an unwillingness to learn beyond these shores might be a clue.

 

[msf]

Lancaster and Johnson were both unproven (if you want to be kind to Lancaster) at Premiership level, so let´s make sure they tick that box first.

 

[Five Meters Out]

I wouldn't be sacking your coach too quickly. He might still end up winning the World Cup.
England at the last chance saloon this week and as such and at home, I'd fancy them to beat the Wallabies. Aus should then beat injury hit Wales.
Once your into the 1/4's it's a lottery.

 

[McTallshort]

I wouldn't be sacking your coach too quickly. He might still end up winning the World Cup.
England at the last chance saloon this week and as such and at home, I'd fancy them to beat the Wallabies. Aus should then beat injury hit Wales.
Once your into the 1/4's it's a lottery.

Yeah chances are if we made the 1/4s we would face SA who we havnt beaten in over a decade

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Yeah chances are if we made the 1/4s we would face SA who we havnt beaten in over a decade

But who've never looked worse? If Japan can

Realise that's a little untrue, and now SA are looking to be improving, but the point stands.

 

[kesh]

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rug...-is-blunder-that-could-bury-england-1.2371821

Gordon D'Arcy's take on Burgess trying to play 12, saying he(Burgess) hasn't got a clue.

Mentions one good thing, one bad thing, one neutral thing and then quielle surprise, covers himself with 'great potential'. Doesn't mention what happened to that defensive channel when Burgess went off.

His also calling for club before country Steffon, who after Bath went in had clearly made his bed.

Just another boring ex-pro trying to sell his column with ******** and scripts many other columnists have already trotted out.

 

[ABs2011]

Zed, could Umaga spin pass of his left? I can´t remember seeing him do it.

Yeah mate of course he could.

But to be honest my post is just an excuse to post this

 

[nickdnz]

Zed, could Umaga spin pass of his left? I can´t remember seeing him do it.

Umaga had one of the best long passing games I've ever seen...

 

[GoTheNaki]

With all this Burgess discussion, I've always said to young talent:

If you cannot play at 10, play at 12. I like Burgess, but as someone said, if the 10 is in the breakdown and you have an overlap, does Burgess see it and use it? Not sure if he would... But that's the same with SBW though.

 

[nickdnz]

Burgess was substituted off shortly before the only Wales try....in fact that substitution indirectly led to defensive shape change that resulted in the Wales try.

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Not that I think Burgess is an international quality center or anything.

Rewatched the review - indeed it was before a Wales break. It was highlighting Barritt's read in the lead up to Wales's try.

 

[The Jones Boy]

But who've never looked worse? If Japan can

Realise that's a little untrue, and now SA are looking to be improving, but the point stands.

RSA looked very average when they fielded a 'B' team against japan.
Then they played the 'A' team (albeit with the doddery Matfield) against Samoa and looked as good as they have ever looked.
Don't expect anything less from the Boks, make no mistake that loss to Japan will hurt them for decades. They are a vastly successful and immensely proud rugby nation.
They went right up the favourites chart to the top for me after the loss to Japan.
Look at how they wiped the floor with Samoa, the Boks were back to their imperious physical best.
Judge them poorly at your peril.

 

[TommiG88]

Any idea if it's a 9:30 team announcement again?

 

[kesh]

They went right up the favourites chart to the top for me after the loss to Japan.

Went out at 10/1 to win it after Japan so put a cheeky e/w on a double, the other bet came in so Come On The Bokk! Got someone to support if things go pear shaped for England.

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Former England coach Martin Johnson has given his backing to the continued inclusion of Farrell because he sees the fly-half as a player who doesn't have a bad day. "Owen Farrell will do what he does," Johnson said. Hardly glowing praise, but from a man who is hard to please or one who rarely gets caught up in the hype and hysteria of it all is high praise indeed.
England are due to name their team shortly after Australia announce their XV for the Twickenham battle at around 8am.

 

[Zed]

RSA looked very average when they fielded a 'B' team against japan.
Then they played the 'A' team (albeit with the doddery Matfield) against Samoa and looked as good as they have ever looked.
Don't expect anything less from the Boks, make no mistake that loss to Japan will hurt them for decades. They are a vastly successful and immensely proud rugby nation.
They went right up the favourites chart to the top for me after the loss to Japan.
Look at how they wiped the floor with Samoa, the Boks were back to their imperious physical best.
Judge them poorly at your peril.

You can't ignore that loss to Japan even if if was a RSA B side. Their G side should have beaten them. I don't think anyone is dismissing them, but saying they're suddenly back to their best after beating a very ordinary Samoan side is a bit delusional. That win does not cancel out that loss to Japan. They may go on to the WC final, but I fully expect them to capitulate against a hungry determined side like the All Blacks.