[2014 Mid-Year Test] South Africa vs Wales (1st Test)

[RoosTah]

Wales were utterly PATHETIC tonight and I have to say I took a lot of joy watching the Springboks annihilate them in every facet of the game for their dull and gutless play. They tried to use the cheap and dull tactic of kicking drop goals and every time the South Africans punished them with Brutal interest by brutalising their clearly outclassed defence with some very classily orchestrated tries.

I'd normally go for Wales in a match against South Africa, but I seriously can't stand watching teams take soft options so consistently, so it felt like a just punishment that they should be so clinically torn to pieces with a demonstration of complete rugby replete with guts, aggression and expansion hard running and passing precision.

The Welsh were so poor and inept, that it took them conceding 5 tries to realise drop goals weren't going to cut it.

 

[Rich Taff]

Wales were utterly PATHETIC tonight and I have to say I took a lot of joy watching the Springboks annihilate them in every facet of the game for their dull and gutless play. They tried to use the cheap and dull tactic of kicking drop goals and every time the South Africans punished them with Brutal interest by brutalising their clearly outclassed defence with some very classily orchestrated tries.

I'd normally go for Wales in a match against South Africa, but I seriously can't stand watching teams take soft options so consistently, so it felt like a just punishment that they should be so clinically torn to pieces with a demonstration of complete rugby replete with guts, aggression and expansion hard running and passing precision.

The Welsh were so poor and inept, that it took them conceding 5 tries to realise drop goals weren't going to cut it.

No real surprise there. Please post when you actually appreciate anyone doing anything at any time North of the Equator, who aren't a touring team from South of the equator.

Otherwise, be assured we will assume you will have negative comments, and save your fingers the stress of typing.

 

[RoosTah]

No real surprise there. Please post when you actually appreciate anyone doing anything at any time North of the Equator, who aren't a touring team from South of the equator.

Otherwise, be assured we will assume you will have negative comments, and save your fingers the stress of typing.

I have. Look at my comments on the first England v NZ game; I give a lot of credit to the poms for dominating the kiwis all over the park apart from the scoreboard. Likewise I gave the French a lot of credit for competing so hard with us at the breakdown last night.

As I said though Wales were boys against men last night, and played with no guts or conviction, and so deserve nothing but scorn. I'd have responded the same way if the wallabies tried such weak tactics in a match.

 

[Rich Taff]

Of course you would, as your posts (from what I've seen) are incredibly unbiased and based on facts....

 

[RoosTah]

Of course you would, as your posts (from what I've seen) are incredibly unbiased and based on facts....

Ok, well if you think I'm being unfair, tell me what was clever about Wales going for a drop goal after having their defence cut to pieces twice in 10 minutes.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't agree on the dropgoal point (do on the others).
Don't think Wales had any intention of trying to win the game via dropgoals. A side should always try and take points from every visit to the oppositions 22.
Wales weren't breaking through a well organised, and ferocious, Boks defence so take the 3, keep the scoreboard ticking, get some reward for the territory and start again.

 

[RoosTah]

I don't agree on the dropgoal point (do on the others).
Don't think Wales had any intention of trying to win the game via dropgoals. A side should always try and take points from every visit to the oppositions 22.
Wales weren't breaking through a well organised, and ferocious, Boks defence so take the 3, keep the scoreboard ticking, get some reward for the territory and start again.

The first drop goal was fair enough - early in the match and helps settle the team when it's 0-0. That said, it was still taken after only around four phases (hardly exhausting all options) and when they were making inroads.

The second one was also taken when they were pretty solidly in the front foot (won a scrum in their 22 and had another scrum advantage) after only two or three phases. I'd get it if the bok defence had just forced them back 20 metres, but they were doing well in attack, and so it just made them look weak and lacking in any conviction. It's fine to take the odd drop goal in a match when you just can't do anything else or the game is in the balance, but when you haven't even tried to attack, and have just been badly exposed in defence twice, it tells your opposition that you're scared and weak... The boks looked to read it as a sign the welsh weren't mentally up for the game, so just ran it at them, and ultimately through them, and it served Wales right for playing such weak footy.

 

[jbobo1]

Can someone please finally post some evidence of these disrespectful, cocky comments which Gatland has been accused of? All i have seen is him saying that we are good enough to win, but that it would take some doing. What do you expect him to say? 'This match is totally beyond us, unfortunately. We'll go and make up the numbers though.' I haven't one person show some evidence of this trash talking, even though people have asked for some. Would be more constructive before spouting your own brands of trash talk towards Gatland on the subject. Cheers

Still no reply to this part of my comment??

I'll take that as confirmation that the overall majority of the English and SA posters are full of sh**e. I really don't mean to offend those who have been at least a little informed, but i'm so sick of the stupid crusade against Wales. This seemed to begin around post 2012 grandslam and is why i had to quid the first time. Now i have returned to find it worse than before. I don't understand it?? The nation which seems to do the best in general over a certain amount of time in the NH is always the most hated team? like England were pre 2008 (France as an exception). It makes no sense, especially when you realise that it is extremely rare to find a Welsh member who posts anything to annoy anyone else (discounting myself, as obviously some of you will disagree). So many people clearly know nothing about rugby and the way in which it is coached. Get a clue people

 

[jbobo1]

As I said though Wales were boys against men last night, and played with no guts or conviction, and so deserve nothing but scorn. I'd have responded the same way if the wallabies tried such weak tactics in a match.

I bet you responded like that when the lions destroyed Aussie in the final game to win the series didn't you?

 

[RoosTah]

Yeah, I don't know what they were talking about to be honest... Gatland doesn't really come across as cocky for mine. Certainly not in the class of Clive Woodward or Jake White in any case.

Either way, don't know what he was thinking with his tactics for this game. Just awful stuff.

 

[RoosTah]

I bet you responded like that when the lions destroyed Aussie in the final game to win the series didn't you?

Fair play - The Lions were just clinical and ruthless in that last match and really showed how the game should be played. Played brilliant and complete rugby... was the death knell for Deans, who had coached the Wallabies into a dull percentage playing team.

As a phenomenon, I absolutely love the Lions, so whilst I was upset we lost, it was good for them as a concept (wins have been hard to come by in the pro era for them) and helped us transition to McKenzie.

 

[jbobo1]

Fair play - The Lions were just clinical and ruthless in that last match and really showed how the game should be played. Played brilliant and complete rugby... was the death knell for Deans, who had coached the Wallabies into a dull percentage playing team.

As a phenomenon, I absolutely love the Lions, so whilst I was upset we lost, it was good for them as a concept (wins have been hard to come by in the pro era for them) and helped us transition to McKenzie.

Fair dinkum, good post. I definitely think Australia have turner a corner in their most recent test matches. For me, they are easy favourites to top the group at the WC at present. Whether it will be Wales or England who follows them, absolutely nobody in the world knows at this moment.

 

[RoosTah]

Fair dinkum, good post. I definitely think Australia have turner a corner in their most recent test matches. For me, they are easy favourites to top the group at the WC at present. Whether it will be Wales or England who follows them, absolutely nobody in the world knows at this moment.

Really hard to say so far out. Wales are capable of some brilliant rugby - their 30 point demolition of England only a couple years ago was something else - which is why it was so annoying watching them play the way they did last night. Meanwhile England have been pretty impressive against the All Blacks, playing with power and width (even if the kiwis steamrolled them through the middle of the match).

The Wallabies success will depend quite a bit on injuries to key players - we can't afford to lose too many front line guys because we just don't have the depth - and developing a much more consistent and competitive scrum (last night was promising) and improving our goal kicking.

Otherwise our backs are looking pretty good.

 

[SomeOke]

Still no reply to this part of my comment??

I'll take that as confirmation that the overall majority of the English and SA posters are full of sh**e. I really don't mean to offend those who have been at least a little informed, but i'm so sick of the stupid crusade against Wales. This seemed to begin around post 2012 grandslam and is why i had to quid the first time. Now i have returned to find it worse than before. I don't understand it?? The nation which seems to do the best in general over a certain amount of time in the NH is always the most hated team? like England were pre 2008 (France as an exception). It makes no sense, especially when you realise that it is extremely rare to find a Welsh member who posts anything to annoy anyone else (discounting myself, as obviously some of you will disagree). So many people clearly know nothing about rugby and the way in which it is coached. Get a clue people

1. I'm pretty sure Saffers have nothing against Wales, why would we?
2. Everyone has friction with the English and visa versa, it's old empire baggage, most of us have been at war with England at some point.
3. Disliking one man doesn't make one anti-welsh.
4. The comments were taken out of context by the media, but Gatland did say he wanted a series win - http://www.rugby365.com/article/60499-gatland-wants-to-whitewash-boks

I'm pretty sure you're but hurt about nothing.

 

[jbobo1]

1. I'm pretty sure Saffers have nothing against Wales, why would we?
2. Everyone has friction with the English and visa versa, it's old empire baggage, most of us have been at war with England at some point.
3. Disliking one man doesn't make one anti-welsh.
4. The comments were taken out of context by the media, but Gatland did say he wanted a series win - http://www.rugby365.com/article/60499-gatland-wants-to-whitewash-boks

I'm pretty sure you're but hurt about nothing.

I'd be far more but hurt if he'd said he didn't want to win the series!

To be honest, all you've done with that link is show me a bog standard interview which could have been made by any coach in the world. It basically sums up how 'but hurt' people on here are and shows that the hate towards Gatland is unsubstantiated and down right stupid. Anyone else with any actual evidence to back up their comments about Gatland? No? Okay.

 

[Big Ewis]

Definitely agree that Gatland and crew aren't the ones to take Wales forward - hard to say when he should've gone, though.

Nothing could've been done, and there isn't a "when he should've gone". Gatland-ball has been viable and relevant all the way til this very year, 2014. They were shining with youth and envious of making it far in the 2011 RWC, made it all the way to the Bronze playoff and possibly should've made the final over France. Unquestionably the best team in Europe in 2012 by winter although that 8-game losing streak to follow may've been more than just a temporary slump, and likely given the situation right now was more of a sign.
But they rebound with tremendous authority in 2013, and win again and then fill the entire Lions roster and Gatland's coach and all that, but I think it was just a matter of enjoying the present glory and postponing an inevitable fate. That they're far too one-dimensional and teams would figure them out even more overtime. They're too slow. They got outrun all over the pitch against the Wallabies last Nov. for e.g. and looked lost. And btw losing in Japan additionally was a huge testament to their problematic lack of depth.
They had a pretty crappy 6N overall this year with an extremely timid performance against a now-Tier 2 Italy, an embarrassment in Dublin, looking completely outclassed in Twickenham. This was merely salvaged by beating the crap out of a depressingly hollow French team and breaking a 14-man Scotland side in two.
Now, they get screwed deep in their first test of the summer in SA where they were to change the course of history and defy all odds, said Mike Phillips.

So in summary about Warren Gatland, they couldn't have randomly ousted him before the last 6N. But by the end of this mid-year tour they'll know where they stand, that's not very high, and they already know England and Australia are licking their lips over the thought of playing that Welsh side next year at the RWC. It's way too late now, so they'll have to go Gatland-ball in the next RWC again.
But I do believe now they need a huge change in mentality and they have most definitely not progressed along with the rest of the better teams in the world:
England, Australia, Ireland and South Africa are unrecognizable from 2012/early 2013. NZ still is invincible as far as we know. Scotland have a new coach and Argentina may be on the rise again. Only France and Italy have really taken a big step down, and God knows France in all its convoluted chaos is never exactly harmless.

Wales have stagnated and their prime in this current outfit is past already. They need to recycle somehow. That's what I feel.

 

[ratsapprentice]

The trouble is that the guys they have coming through aren't of the quality of the current crop (at their peak).
Particularly their forwards... the next 5 years could potentially be pretty lean for them.

 

[Patchey]

From what I've seen, and I'm no Welsh rugby expert, Gatland's main trouble is finding more than one reliable game plan and working out who he wants calling the shots.

Wales have, in Dan Biggar, I really quality game managing 10 IMO. Yet Gats doesn't seem to trust him.

You've also got some really exciting backs and, when fit, one of the best sets of loose forwards in the NH. Yet it seems when you come up against someone who can match your physicality in midfield and or nullify your back row there is no consistent Plan B. You try lots of different things but none of them seem convincing.

 

[j'nuh]

Still no reply to this part of my comment??

I'll take that as confirmation that the overall majority of the English and SA posters are full of sh**e. I really don't mean to offend those who have been at least a little informed, but i'm so sick of the stupid crusade against Wales. This seemed to begin around post 2012 grandslam and is why i had to quid the first time. Now i have returned to find it worse than before. I don't understand it?? The nation which seems to do the best in general over a certain amount of time in the NH is always the most hated team? like England were pre 2008 (France as an exception). It makes no sense, especially when you realise that it is extremely rare to find a Welsh member who posts anything to annoy anyone else (discounting myself, as obviously some of you will disagree). So many people clearly know nothing about rugby and the way in which it is coached. Get a clue people

There are literally 4 or 5 people in this thread who ever brought up Gatland's comments, not all of them are negative about it, and at least one of those people are Welsh. What a jump (a racist one at that) to accuse the other dozens of us as being full of ****e.

As for playing the victim card, people can criticise coaches of other countries without criticising a country. Kidney was a terrible coach. I can say that without having any kind of a crusade against Ireland.

As far as the comments go:
http://www.rugby365.com/article/60499-gatland-wants-to-whitewash-boks

The comments really are not bad at all. Yes, Gatland says that he wants a whitewash of SA. But in a 2-game series, a whitewash is literally just the same as winning the test series, and it isn't as if Gatland would set his sights as low as coming to draw or be plucky losers in the series...

The trouble is that the guys they have coming through aren't of the quality of the current crop (at their peak).

Particularly their forwards... the next 5 years could potentially be pretty lean for them.

Not sure I agree with this. Other than the props, there won't be that much overall change over the next 5 years. The entire starting back row (Lydiate, Warbs, Tipuric, Faletau) should be hitting their peak years, and who knows just now where guys like Baker and King will be? In the second row, AWJ and Evans should be around at least until 2019, and Ball will be around for longer. In the front row, Samson Lee is an absolutely exceptional talent for his age and I would be very surprised if he doesn't get tens of caps. Owens is a great player and should be hitting his best years shortly, and Hibbard can make it through at least a few of the next 5 years. The challenge for Wales will be to sort out loosehead and replacement props.

As for the backline, I think they'll go from strength to strength. Other than Phillips, I don't think there's a player amongst the backline that doesn't have a shot at being there in 5 years time. Gareth Davies looks like an absolute revelation for Wales and a total upgrade on Phillips. Scrum-half has been their biggest worry of the last few years and it's encouraging that there's someone there to take over. Then there's Sam Davies, Owen Williams, Cory Allen, Hanno Dirksen, Eli Walker, Jordan Williams and Matthew Morgan to challenge the established players. Even the established players are young enough that the vast majority of them should be better in 5 years time.

 

[Big Ewis]

Kidney was a terrible coach. I can say that without having any kind of a crusade against Ireland.

I don't know about terrible !...got Ireland that GS in 2009, first in a million years, even got IRB Coach of the year that year. Won H Cups with Munster...