[2014 Mid-Year Test] Australia vs France (3rd Test)

[RoosTah]

Interesting. Top 14 and H Cup semis & final drew huge crowd here as well. All of these games were sold out.

Clubs here have been picking up all the slack from Intl rugby.

I've bagged out the ARU a bit here, but to be fair to them the actually do coordinate with the Super Rugby teams quite heavily for the good of the national side (offering contract top-ups, getting the national coaching set-up involved with the franchises etc).

From what you're telling me the FFR needs a massive restructure if the French national team is ever to take advantage of its great depth.

 

[Tony Manx]

Playing it at the best Rugby Stadium in Sydney and in the day like they did is the way to get people coming back to games.

Fully agree with you - and I hate the night kick offs in France at 21.00 (I can cope with 18.00 just) - and the old fashioned 14.30 kick off on a Saturday time is ideal for the spectators BUT TV dictates the time of the kick off and I would guarantee the NH TV audience for this match was tiny in comparison to matches at your night time!!!

 

[Jaguares]

Yeah it was an awesome atmosphere at the game, and a great one to be at for the result too .

I can tell you though, if they'd played this match out west at the big 80k stadium, only 25k would have shown up. Playing it at the best Rugby Stadium in Sydney and in the day like they did is the way to get people coming back to games.

It's almost an Eden Park (50,000) 100% sold out and more than the Wellington Stadium (36,000).

ARU can recover supporters if they continue with good performance and win the next WC. That will appeal to many League supporters to the Union. ARU has the advantage that Union is bigger globally than League.

 

[Sam Owen]

Sanzar you gotta stop saying France fielded a full strength side cos you confuse me a few others have said otherwise

 

[RoosTah]

Sanzar you gotta stop saying France fielded a full strength side cos you confuse me a few others have said otherwise

Hahaha sorry mate. I don't know the ins and outs of French rugby so I was really just going on what I'd heard from the blokes on Rugby HQ on Thursday night and they rated it as a pretty well full strength team.

Who were they supposed to be missing?

 

[Sam Owen]

Hahaha sorry mate. I don't know the ins and outs of French rugby so I was really just going on what I'd heard from the blokes on Rugby HQ on Thursday night and they rated it as a pretty well full strength team.

Who were they supposed to be missing?

Just read the previous posts on this thread. Apparently they were missing a few! They have a few problems with the coaching staff and co apparently. Not taking anything away from the Wallies, they're lookin really good.

 

[Tony Manx]

................. I was really just going on what I'd heard from the blokes on Rugby HQ on Thursday night

Never, never go by what the vast majority of pundits say about the players/teams of another country........Australia is a long way from France but the vast majority of the English pundits have no idea what they are talking about when discussing the French rugby!! They too listen to what other pundits have said, sometimes months or even years before, and based their opinions on that!!

 

[RoosTah]

Fair enough. Always hard when you've got a couple players out, but at the same time France has 3 times as many pro players than we do in Australia, so I kinda feel that - a little like England or us in the League - losing a few players shouldn't really affect them to the point where they're getting hammered in matches like today.

It'd be like seeing the Kangaroos get thumped by England because all the Qld guys were missing - just wouldn't happen because the depth is too strong.

 

[Big Ewis]

Fair enough. Always hard when you've got a couple players out, but at the same time France has 3 times as many pro players than we do in Australia, so I kinda feel that - a little like England or us in the League - losing a few players shouldn't really affect them to the point where they're getting hammered in matches like today.

It'd be like seeing the Kangaroos get thumped by England because all the Qld guys were missing - just wouldn't happen because the depth is too strong.

do you even read the posts that.........ahhh never mind, of course you don't. Obviously you don't..

 

[Jaguares]

Hahaha sorry mate. I don't know the ins and outs of French rugby so I was really just going on what I'd heard from the blokes on Rugby HQ on Thursday night and they rated it as a pretty well full strength team.

Who were they supposed to be missing?

I think as you, although the French were angry so I'll say, PSA was selected the best French players: Dusautoir, Picamoles, Machenaud, Dulin, Bastareaud, Fofana, Yoann Huget, Domingo, Nyanga and others.

They are the best French players, I don't think that PSA didn't picked the French Christian Cullen or the French George Smith. They are the best, maybe the problem is the strategy and the tactics but don't the players, they are the best at the present.

Unless the French say that a team by Pro D2's players could be better than a team by Top 14's players...

 

[Tony Manx]

I think as you, although the French were angry so I'll say, PSA was selected the best French players: Dusautoir, Picamoles, Machenaud, Dulin, Bastareaud, Fofana, Yoann Huget, Domingo, Nyanga and others.

They are the best French players, I don't think that PSA didn't picked the French Christian Cullen or the French George Smith. They are the best, maybe the problem is the strategy and the tactics but don't the players, they are the best at the present.

Unless the French say that a team by Pro D2's players could be better than a team by Top 14's players...

Conrad, Conrad............please look at BigEwis post earlier where he showed clearly who are the best players in France who were in the team and who should have been in the team instead of those who had been selected! They are not all the best at present just those that PSA likes to think are!!

 

[Jaguares]

Conrad, Conrad............please look at BigEwis post earlier where he showed clearly who are the best players in France who were in the team and who should have been in the team instead of those who had been selected! They are not all the best at present just those that PSA likes to think are!!

This?

well he's out injured, and Vincent Clerc still needs more time (if he gets back), but yeah there's Marvin O'Connor, Benjamin Fall, Noa Nakaitaci, Marc Andreu, Julien Malzieu (maybe injured ?), and why not Romain Martial, Julien Arias or trying out Rémy Grosso (Castres) who offers real power at 104kg, great defense, is young and willing and at least is actually a specialist wingers.

I think these players on the France's starting XV too would be overcome by this Wallabies.

Which is your dream team of Les Bleus?

 

[Big Ewis]

because my patience is great - I understand this following post is basically necessary, although in fact it is completely irrelevant. I'll repeat for the 10th time:
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT TEAM FRANCE FIELDS BECAUSE THE GUYS ARE COACHED BY INCOMPETENT A$SHOLES WHO DON'T HAVE ANY INTEGRITY AND DON'T GIVE A FK ABOUT HOW FRANCE DO.
YOU COULD THROW IN ALL-BLACKS OR SPRINGBOKS IN THERE, IT WOULDN'T CHANGE THE FACT THIS IS A TEAM SPORT, AND A DIRECTIONLESS TEAM GOES NOWHERE.

Munster are a heck of a team, and they don't have a ton of big names.

Conrad, you ask me for a "dream team of les Bleus", therefor I take it I can pick currently injured players too. Also, I'm going to assume the guys I pick are in full form, not exhausted/recently injured, and performing as well as we've seen them recently in the Top 14.

My "Dream Team of les Bleus"

15 Brice Dulin
14 Yoann Huget
13 Mathieu Bastareaud
12 Wesley Fofana
11 Sofiane Guitoune
10 François Trinh-Duc
9 Morgan Parra
8 Louis Picamoles
7 Antoine Burban
6 Thierry Dusautoir (capt)
5 Pascal Papé
4 Yoann Maestri
3 Rabah Slimani
2 Ben Kayser
1 Thomas Domingo

16. Dimitri Szarzewski
17. Vincent Debaty
18. Nicolas Mas ? or Luc Ducalcon
19. Alexandre Flanquart
20. Yannick Nyanga
21. Maxime Machenaud
22. Camille Lopez
23. Rémi Lamerat

Nicolas Mas was the best Tighthead in the world just a year ago. His huge drop in form is either old age, or because he's burned out. We'll know soon if he's completely done for, or if this is remediable. And Ducalcon has improved a lot in the scrum since the new rules.

Put a real coaching staff in there with those guys, and watch. Just watch what this team would do.
Trinh-Duc leading the attack, feeding the likes of Huget, Fofana, Guitoune. With Dulin counterattacking, and Bastareaud breaking the defense regularly. Up front, a dominant scrum, lots of power, ball carrying in the third row. Big tacklers.
Off the bench, you've got Machenaud who plays best as a substitute instilling energy with Camille Lopez as your replacement flyhalf. Debaty, Lamerat, Szar and Nyanga bringing their energy and punch. Flanquart for lineouts, and Debaty+Szar+Ducalcon make for one nice replacement scrummaging unit.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

because my patience is great - I understand this following post is basically necessary, although in fact it is completely irrelevant. I'll repeat for the 10th time:
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT TEAM FRANCE FIELDS BECAUSE THE GUYS ARE COACHED BY INCOMPETENT A$SHOLES WHO DON'T HAVE ANY INTEGRITY AND DON'T GIVE A FK ABOUT HOW FRANCE DO.
YOU COULD THROW IN ALL-BLACKS OR SPRINGBOKS IN THERE, IT WOULDN'T CHANGE THE FACT THIS IS A TEAM SPORT, AND A DIRECTIONLESS TEAM GOES NOWHERE.

Munster are a heck of a team, and they don't have a ton of big names.

Conrad, you ask me for a "dream team of les Bleus", therefor I take it I can pick currently injured players too. Also, I'm going to assume the guys I pick are in full form, not exhausted/recently injured, and performing as well as we've seen them recently in the Top 14.

My "Dream Team of les Bleus"

15 Brice Dulin
14 Yoann Huget
13 Mathieu Bastareaud
12 Wesley Fofana
11 Sofiane Guitoune
10 François Trinh-Duc
9 Morgan Parra
8 Louis Picamoles
7 Antoine Burban
6 Thierry Dusautoir (capt)
5 Pascal Papé
4 Yoann Maestri
3 Rabah Slimani
2 Ben Kayser
1 Thomas Domingo

16. Christopher Tolofua
17. Vincent Debaty
18. Nicolas Mas
19. Alexandre Flanquart
20. Yannick Nyanga
21. Maxime Machenaud
22. Camille Lopez
23. Rémi Lamerat

Nicolas Mas was the best Tighthead in the world just a year ago. His huge drop in form is either old age, or because he's burned out. We'll know soon if he's completely done for, or if this is remediable. And Ducalcon has improved a lot in the scrum since the new rules.

Put a real coaching staff in there with those guys, and watch. Just watch what this team would do.
Trinh-Duc leading the attack, feeding the likes of Huget, Fofana, Guitoune. With Dulin counterattacking, and Bastareaud breaking the defense regularly. Up front, a dominant scrum, lots of power, ball carrying in the third row. Big tacklers.
Off the bench, you've got Machenaud who plays best as a substitute instilling energy with Camille Lopez as your replacement flyhalf. Debaty, Lamerat, Szar and Nyanga bringing their energy and punch. Flanquart for lineouts, and Debaty+Szar+Ducalcon make for one nice replacement scrummaging unit.

how does that look ?

 

[Jaguares]

because my patience is great - I understand this following post is basically necessary, although in fact it is completely irrelevant. I'll repeat for the 10th time:
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT TEAM FRANCE FIELDS BECAUSE THE GUYS ARE COACHED BY INCOMPETENT A$SHOLES WHO DON'T HAVE ANY INTEGRITY AND DON'T GIVE A FK ABOUT HOW FRANCE DO.
YOU COULD THROW IN ALL-BLACKS OR SPRINGBOKS IN THERE, IT WOULDN'T CHANGE THE FACT THIS IS A TEAM SPORT, AND A DIRECTIONLESS TEAM GOES NOWHERE.

Munster are a heck of a team, and they don't have a ton of big names.

Conrad, you ask me for a "dream team of les Bleus", therefor I take it I can pick currently injured players too. Also, I'm going to assume the guys I pick are in full form, not exhausted/recently injured, and performing as well as we've seen them recently in the Top 14.

My "Dream Team of les Bleus"

15 Brice Dulin
14 Yoann Huget
13 Mathieu Bastareaud
12 Wesley Fofana
11 Sofiane Guitoune
10 François Trinh-Duc
9 Morgan Parra
8 Louis Picamoles
7 Antoine Burban
6 Thierry Dusautoir (capt)
5 Pascal Papé
4 Yoann Maestri
3 Rabah Slimani
2 Ben Kayser
1 Thomas Domingo

16. Dimitri Szarzewski
17. Vincent Debaty
18. Nicolas Mas ? or Luc Ducalcon
19. Alexandre Flanquart
20. Yannick Nyanga
21. Maxime Machenaud
22. Camille Lopez
23. Rémi Lamerat

Nicolas Mas was the best Tighthead in the world just a year ago. His huge drop in form is either old age, or because he's burned out. We'll know soon if he's completely done for, or if this is remediable. And Ducalcon has improved a lot in the scrum since the new rules.

Put a real coaching staff in there with those guys, and watch. Just watch what this team would do.
Trinh-Duc leading the attack, feeding the likes of Huget, Fofana, Guitoune. With Dulin counterattacking, and Bastareaud breaking the defense regularly. Up front, a dominant scrum, lots of power, ball carrying in the third row. Big tacklers.
Off the bench, you've got Machenaud who plays best as a substitute instilling energy with Camille Lopez as your replacement flyhalf. Debaty, Lamerat, Szar and Nyanga bringing their energy and punch. Flanquart for lineouts, and Debaty+Szar+Ducalcon make for one nice replacement scrummaging unit.

Relax, mate. I said:

maybe the problem is the strategy and the tactics but don't the players, they are the best at the present.

It's just like you said, the main problem is the coaching staff.

 

[Big Ewis]

I wasn't angry or addressing this at you in particular, I just want to make sure every non-French person is aware and familiar with the very simple reality of France rugby. The only way for ppl to see that was using large font, so it's printed in their minds. Also, reading many posts on this very thread, I've noticed ppl skip read or don't read at all my posts. Too long for them.
Anyways, you also said this:

I think as you, although the French were angry so I'll say, PSA was selected the best French players: Dusautoir, Picamoles, Machenaud, Dulin, Bastareaud, Fofana, Yoann Huget, Domingo, Nyanga and others.

They are the best French players, I don't think that PSA didn't picked the French Christian Cullen or the French George Smith. They are the best, maybe the problem is the strategy and the tactics but don't the players, they are the best at the present.

Unless the French say that a team by Pro D2's players could be better than a team by Top 14's players...

Also, I understand Aussie or NZ or wtvr fans don't have time for the Top 14, but the team I just 'assembled' there in my previous post - if you have watched some Top 14, and know what these guys can do on their own, you'd understand how depressing France Rugby is right now. The potential is sickening, but I'm sure almost everyone supporting France is over it. We've accepted how things are, and don't even think about potential anymore. But we do love our players, and want to see them play their best, i.e. in a team that taps into their full potential, with coaches who use them properly. Hence, we watch Top 14, club Rugby

I'm not going to watch this match btw. Just the highlights later on. I'm spending my free time watching NZ ENG, and SA WAL later on. That tells you smt. And it's not because Australia won largely, I wouldn't watch if it had been a 10 point game.

 

[RoosTah]

Also, I understand Aussie or NZ or wtvr fans don't have time for the Top 14, but the team I just 'assembled' there in my previous post - if you have watched some Top 14, and know what these guys can do on their own, you'd understand how depressing France Rugby is right now. The potential is sickening, but I'm sure almost everyone supporting France is over it. We've accepted how things are, and don't even think about potential anymore. But we do love our players, and want to see them play their best, i.e. in a team that taps into their full potential, with coaches who use them properly. Hence, we watch Top 14, club Rugby

I'm not going to watch this match btw. Just the highlights later on. I'm spending my free time watching NZ ENG, and SA WAL later on. That tells you smt. And it's not because Australia won largely, I wouldn't watch if it had been a 10 point game.

Apologies for not reading all your posts earlier - I generally don't read all the posts in a thread though. But just on your "potential missing players" argument, it reminds me an awful lot of the arguments we had in Australia when Eddie Jones was coach and Jones seemed to refuse to pick any genuine talent coming through in Super Rugby, preferring instead to consistently retain the failing incumbents. It's a very frustrating state of affairs when that happens, but you still expect the guys who wear the national jersey to step up. Having compared this side to the one that beat England, it looks like about half the players are missing, which is unfortunate, but all the same the Wallabies aren't exactly "full strength" either (Pocock, Moore, Genia, Cooper all injured - then players like Giteau, Douglas, and Mitchell unavailable).

As you say, it's clearly a problem with management at the national level. With the size of the French league, the national team should be able to deal with the loss of a few key players. Heck, we saw the All Blacks lose 3 fly-halves during the last World Cup and still triumph.

With that in mind, do you expect PSA to survive as coach?

As for which matches to watch, go for the Wales v Springboks game - absolutely awesome as a spectacle and probably the best match of the june internationals. Wales show just how long a week in rugby can be with a very aggressive, expansive and confrontational performance. They just push that aggression a little too far in the end, but really looked a completely different team and should have won.

England v NZ is good to watch as an Aussie or Kiwi just for the fact that it's England being pummelled hahaha. All Blacks looked scary good in the first half.

 

[Sam Owen]

Like I said there is nothing shocking here. I am only relaying the reality of what I see here. I'm sorry that it upsets you so much.

Upset? I've called you mate and said 'all good bro'. Your post underneath sounds like you're the one who is upset.

Don't lecture. And Im not your mate. Maybe you need to learn how to read your own language.

Sounds like someone's upset. This is one of the first few posts. I tried to be nice but you were..upset?

Anyway this here is our main debate. I respect your opinion that you initially felt that club rugby is nearly the same or better than international games. I understand that if you look at it in terms of entertainment.

I'm sure some games are more entertaining and that's due to club games having more weaknesses than internationals in regards to players abilities, skill level etc..these weaknesses allows mistakes such as miss tackles, which leads to tries making the game more appealing.

However I wouldn't say 'better' than internationals. In internationals, the teams are very regularly the best players that country has. There is less mistakes. Country's reputation and pride is on the line. Intensity and pace is normally higher because every player on the field is usually the best of the crop of many. Just think about that as I discuss your posts underneath.

You seem inconsistent with your beliefs regarding club and internationals. Maybe after some thought, you've changed your mind slightly. Underneath is one of your first post where you imply that Top 14s better, that's the way I see it.

well I wouldn't call the best of the best the rugby drudge I saw in the 2nd test. It was shockingly poor rugby from both sides. I've seen better games in Top 14 & H Cup here.

Underneath you deny that's what you said and that's fair but the insinuations that the Top 14 is better is pretty clear.

that's not what I said. Not all Intl rugby is great because it's "International rugby". I've seen better games in Top 14 & H Cup and some awful test rugby like the 2nd test btw Aus Fra.That's just my opinion. I am not asking you to agree.

Like I said before in regards to inconsistent beliefs, underneath you've now seemed to have changed your mind or come to your better judgement.

Some of the best games in the H Cup, but NOT in Top 14, are pretty close to 6N rugby standards.

It's all good bro, I'm not upset lol.

 

[Big Ewis]

With that in mind, do you expect PSA to survive as coach?

Yes. There's something wrong about him still being up there, we've finished 4th, 6th and then 4th again at the 6N. Not very French like, historically. There must be something political, that he's still there. We'll ride him til the end of the RWC, at least.

Upset? I've called you mate and said 'all good bro'. Your post underneath sounds like you're the one who is upset.

Sounds like someone's upset. This is one of the first few posts. I tried to be nice but you were..upset?

You seem inconsistent with your beliefs regarding club and internationals. Maybe after some thought, you've changed your mind slightly. Underneath is one of your first post where you imply that Top 14s better, that's the way I see it.

Underneath you deny that's what you said and that's fair but the insinuations that the Top 14 is better is pretty clear.

Like I said before in regards to inconsistent beliefs, underneath you've now seemed to have changed your mind or come to your better judgement.

It's all good bro, I'm not upset lol.

:lol: best. Troll work. On this website. Ever. This post is a work of art. It attempts to be logical and all, but it's pure abstract art. Sam Owen, don't ever stop posting on this thread, please. I'm not upset, but if you're upset I'm upset for being upset. You contradict yourself when you say that you're upset, but then Top 14 games are a higher level than H Cup internationals. I'm not upset. You seem upset, mate ? Listen, you contradict yourself by contradicting what I've said as you've said that internationals are a higher standard than I'm upset because you're inconsistent with your upsetness. It's okay bro, relax. I'm not upset ! You seem upset dude, just relax.

Upset.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

So, Will Skelton: 6 foot 8 inch, 22 stone; a beast by all accounts. Have the Wallabies found their long term version of Bakkies Botha? Someone who can push in the scrum and re-enforce the tight head prop. I was impressed with this raw talent when the Lions beat the Waratahs last year.

But, I noticed his lack of mobility, lack of being a line out option and his lack of stamina; he looked exhausted when he came off on 56 mins v France. It will interesting how McKensie manages him in the next year or so.