[2014 EOYT] Italy vs South Africa

[Tony Manx]

that's not a 22-6 victory.......but anyways, South Africa have a bit to worry about and Italy lots, lots to hope for, and with real hope this time.

Just shows how really crap England were!!!

 

[Hap]

Yes, good effort from Azzurri. We didn't really deserve to get neither near the victory, but we have been very good defensively which was one of our biggest concerns in the last year.
Very good scrum, specially the guys from the bench. Chistolini didn't fear the Troll at all.
I really liked Morisi and Campagnaro in attack and defense too, always beyond gain line. Haimona, good more or less, he missed a couple of tackles but I think he gained 10 jersey for the next 6 Nation.
Good surprise was our ability to turnover balls in front of this opponent! I hope it's an habit we will maintain.

In general I think we gained team spirit and solidity during this serie and this will be a very good starting point for the next 6N. I think it won't be as the past one, for us. People out there, get ready :devil:

 

[oldprussians]

Ok this where me and Hap party company. ... the difference between Italy ans south Africa were the 10s.. Lambie created and Haimona is a donkey. . OK if you want to nullify a game but nothing creative in attack. . Look at the difference when Orquera came on.. I still think Allan and Orquera for the 6N..

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

i would say, good effort from italy as they started well, thought the springboks got lucky there but still a good effort from italy

How do you reckon? I thought we were the team doing all the attacking and were good value for those few tries we scored?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Italy gave a good performance but South Africa's class came through!

 

[NamWarrior]

did we really need the likes of de villiers, vermuelen and matfield to play every game on this tour, it's not as if they have anything else to prove.

no doubt they'll be starting in the last game as well.

i feel as if some of the less experienced players should be getting more game time because you never know we might need them to make the step up at the world cup if we get any injuries.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I saw the game very differently.

I thought we were rather poor, the changes showed a lack of cohesion.

Bryan Habana and Cobus Reinach had a bad day at the office, how did Cobus get the MOTM award? Were the adjudicators sleeping along with Jerome Garcez??

What is it with French Refs and their continuous pathetic performances at this level?? The match was a shambles as there was no control from the ref! He let everything go. Both sides got away with murder, and he missed a lot of infringements, forward passes, not straight lineout throws and tacklers not rolling away. Shocking, Shocking, Shocking!

The less we talk about this match, the better.

 

[oldprussians]

I saw the game very differently.

I thought we were rather poor, the changes showed a lack of cohesion.

Bryan Habana and Cobus Reinach had a bad day at the office, how did Cobus get the MOTM award? Were the adjudicators sleeping along with Jerome Garcez??

What is it with French Refs and their continuous pathetic performances at this level?? The match was a shambles as there was no control from the ref! He let everything go. Both sides got away with murder, and he missed a lot of infringements, forward passes, not straight lineout throws and tacklers not rolling away. Shocking, Shocking, Shocking!

The less we talk about this match, the better.

To be honest you lost my support on "What is it with French Refs and their continuous pathetic performances at this level"

If you said that particular ref on on that particular day.... I don't like blanket stereotypes!

I agree though... the Zuid Afrkaanse line out was never straight.. neither was their feed into the scrum... and the Italian commentators to their credit pointed out every time Italy got away with infringements as well as when Garces let the springboks off.

Although to say the Boks weren't trying is stupid Italy smashed them in the rucks which they were surprised with but you had Lambie and we had the donkey Haimona! and Class in general won out!

 

[TRF_heineken]

To be honest you lost my support on "What is it with French Refs and their continuous pathetic performances at this level"

If you said that particular ref on on that particular day.... I don't like blanket stereotypes!

I agree though... the Zuid Afrkaanse line out was never straight.. neither was their feed into the scrum... and the Italian commentators to their credit pointed out every time Italy got away with infringements as well as when Garces let the springboks off.

Although to say the Boks weren't trying is stupid Italy smashed them in the rucks which they were surprised with but you had Lambie and we had the donkey Haimona! and Class in general won out!

Really?

See if I care.

Garcez and Poite have on every occasion they were involved in a SA match this year, made bad calls!

 

[oldprussians]

Really?

See if I care.

Garcez and Poite have on every occasion they were involved in a SA match this year, made bad calls!

Ok And you think Jubert doesn't? the worst WC reffing I have EVER seen!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

It is a common conception though that French refereesfollow a laizzes faire approach to many 'smaller' aspects of the game and one I tend to subscribe too; you just have to watch a weekend of Top 14 vs any other league and then again, in the SH referees are much more strict at the ruck area so SH teams tend to struggle under interpretations of french refs and the fans get frustrated by this. We must just accept it is part of the Rugby union landscape IMO and learn to adjust our tactics accordingly at a game management level. Our SANZAR partners are miles ahead of us in the street smarts department here and the Argentine players thrive on it with most of them playing in the Top 14 and they showed on the weekend against France that they know just how to get it to work in their favor. Our one off approach to the breakdowns isn't ideal in Europe with NH referees. We're not going to change the difference in refereeing but we can adjust our own mindsets and tactics.

bringing up Joubert is irrelevant to this discussion and you won't find a South African defending what truly was a shocking refereeing display at the 2011 RWC final. If anything that performance compounds the frustration many South Africans feel over a general poor level of refereeing at test level which is below what we are used at even Currie Cup level. That inversion shouldn't be.

 

[FrenchFan]

Bad calls can happen. No ref is perfect. A few bad calls don't compare to robbing France of a WC like Joubert did.

Romain Poite can read a scrum like no other ref can. I think SH refs have nothing on him

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think you are missing my point (assuming you are responding to me?). No ref is perfect but should we just accept that if there is courses of action we could take? The important thing to bare in mind here is poor refereeing decsions put casual fans off of rugby union whether they are South African, Frnch, Kiwi or English etc. It is a stumbling block to the development of the sport. It's all good to say us die hard fans need to accept it and to some degree I agree becuase it comes in swings and round abouts but like you say, struggling or stumbling in a November match doesn't compare to losing a RWC ***le which I agree with you is what happened. We have our own axe to grind with Bryce Lawrence in that tournament. I am sure it put a lot of casual French fans off the sport though you'd be in a better position to judge that?

I think my gripe is Union has gone pro in many facets of the sport but not how it is refereed while the 'traditional' powerhouses of the game also keep a vice like grip on the management of the game from the top down. It should either be amateur or pro not some uncomfortable mix of the two IMO.

I don't mean my general frustration at poor consistency ITO refereeing at test level- my personal perception but I can assure you it is wide spread- to distract from what looks like an improving Italian side (?) though; I just wanted to make that clear.

 

[TRF_heineken]

It is a common conception though that French refereesfollow a laizzes faire approach to many 'smaller' aspects of the game and one I tend to subscribe too; you just have to watch a weekend of Top 14 vs any other league and then again, in the SH referees are much more strict at the ruck area so SH teams tend to struggle under interpretations of french refs and the fans get frustrated by this. We must just accept it is part of the Rugby union landscape IMO and learn to adjust our tactics accordingly at a game management level. Our SANZAR partners are miles ahead of us in the street smarts department here and the Argentine players thrive on it with most of them playing in the Top 14 and they showed on the weekend against France that they know just how to get it to work in their favor. Our one off approach to the breakdowns isn't ideal in Europe with NH referees. We're not going to change the difference in refereeing but we can adjust our own mindsets and tactics.

bringing up Joubert is irrelevant to this discussion and you won't find a South African defending what truly was a shocking refereeing display at the 2011 RWC final. If anything that performance compounds the frustration many South Africans feel over a general poor level of refereeing at test level which is below what we are used at even Currie Cup level. That inversion shouldn't be.

It's like Nick Mallett said after the game, and here I truly value his opinion as he coached in France, Italy and South Africa.

he said: "have a look at the Top 14, and you will see the French referees will always blow in favour of the home team. It doesn't happen very often that the away team wins in the top 14. This is because the referees don't want to upset the home ground's fans". He went on to say "Now the problem is that the refs go onto the international circuit, and continue with that mentality, which is incorrect, because immediately your decision making as a referee is flawed. In international test matches, there should be none of this. I (Nick Mallett) have no problem if they use this in local tournaments, but when it comes to international tests, the standard must be equal to everyone".

 

[FrenchFan]

Oops another Top 14 caricature. It's amazing to see teams do actually win games away in Top 14. Must be a miracle.

Last time Mallet coached in France was 2004 in Top 16. Things have moved on.

The French refs are as good as any on the international scene.

 

[Big Ewis]

Craig Joubert isn't a bad ref. He's a very good ref. He was just bought during the WC.

It's like Nick Mallett said after the game, and here I truly value his opinion as he coached in France, Italy and South Africa.

he said: "have a look at the Top 14, and you will see the French referees will always blow in favour of the home team. It doesn't happen very often that the away team wins in the top 14. This is because the referees don't want to upset the home ground's fans". He went on to say "Now the problem is that the refs go onto the international circuit, and continue with that mentality, which is incorrect, because immediately your decision making as a referee is flawed. In international test matches, there should be none of this. I (Nick Mallett) have no problem if they use this in local tournaments, but when it comes to international tests, the standard must be equal to everyone".

That's an amazingly gi-normous statement to make :lol: :lol:

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

While there is a definate trend in the Top14 for home teams to win more than most other leagues you have to take into account that a factor that comes into play is the sheer length of the Top 14 and the fact that home sides specifically target their home games as 'must wins'. Even the bigger teams have to have some measure of resource management and every Top 14 team bar RCT and now RM92 almost have to decide whether they are playing Top14 or Euro challenge cup in a year. That is an important factor to keep in mind on top of the general home ground advantage that is a factor in any sport whether team or individual; it's no surprise that Olympic hosts tend to almost double their medal tally from other years. I don't think French referees bow to local pressure any more than otehrs (see Joubert in 2011). I just feel they are less pedantic in general which frustrates us in the SH who are used to more 'policed' games (I'm talking of the break down specifically here).

 

[TRF_heineken]

Oops another Top 14 caricature. It's amazing to see teams do actually win games away in Top 14. Must be a miracle.

read it again, he said it doesn't happen very often. he didn't say that it doesn't happen at all!

The French refs are as good as any on the international scene.

Debateable. Poite and Garcez have been the 2 who have been pointed the most this past year. Poite had been under scrutiny on many occasions.

That's an amazingly gi-normous statement to make :lol: :lol:

Well, Mallett has a tendency to make those statements, and he usually has the back-up to make it...

 

[Big Ewis]

sorry guys, this is too funny. Lost credibility some time ago, not interested in actually replying here. Top 14 teams win at home often, mm hmmmm I izz Shirlac Holmzz, I iz detetkteev, must be the refs !ù`^$ The eavil French rifs who all have eavil jean inside French DNA !! Let's make big generalizishun all french samy same.

Jesus...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

sorry guys, this is too funny. Lost credibility some time ago, not interested in actually replying here. Top 14 teams win at home often, mm hmmmm I izz Shirlac Holmzz, I iz detetkteev, must be the refs !ù`^$ The eavil French rifs who all have eavil jean inside French DNA !! Let's make big generalizishun all french samy same.

Jesus...

That is probably a wise move though I can do without the rest LOL. We have gone waayyy off topic and I apologize for my role in it. Let's see if this thread can get back on topic though there is little enough point at this stage with the game in the history books now. I'll keep a watch here and close if it can't get back on topic not that I feel anyone has any more to say about the game but lets see.