2014 Canadian Rugby Championship and General Canadian Rugby Chat.

[Beerfalo]

I thought it has always been "who can afford to go" instead of "who should go."

I guess it kinda was but bumping the cost by a grand? As someone who's spent his life poor it's things like this that just frustrate me so much. Just gotta hope if I ever have kids they are only good enough for club level haha.

 

[canadafan]

Well, a pathway would help. 7s is starting to get it together with the try 4 gold initiative. Hopefully it will spill over to XVs.

 

[rusty_lock]

As much as people like to put this on Rugby Canada this really is a union/subunion problem. Participation levels are falling, especially here in BC. BC used to be the Mecca of Canadian rugby and the BC premier league used to be the absolute best, most competitive rugby going. Now it is only slightly from a elevated rec league.

We have been living in the "pay to play" model for to long now and that simply has to change. However, the only way that that is going to change is if individuals at the grass roots level take the initiative and do the fund raising, find the sponsors and initiate programs necessary to fund higher level age grade opportunities.

$2500 is ridiculous and until we find a way to minimize or eliminate the cost for exceptional athletes to gain greater opportunity we can continue to expect 17-13 wins over countries like Namibia and be a country that just makes up the numbers for the big boys at world cup time

 

[Kempistry]

As much as people like to put this on Rugby Canada this really is a union/subunion problem. Participation levels are falling, especially here in BC. BC used to be the Mecca of Canadian rugby and the BC premier league used to be the absolute best, most competitive rugby going. Now it is only slightly from a elevated rec league.

We have been living in the "pay to play" model for to long now and that simply has to change. However, the only way that that is going to change is if individuals at the grass roots level take the initiative and do the fund raising, find the sponsors and initiate programs necessary to fund higher level age grade opportunities.

$2500 is ridiculous and until we find a way to minimize or eliminate the cost for exceptional athletes to gain greater opportunity we can continue to expect 17-13 wins over countries like Namibia and be a country that just makes up the numbers for the big boys at world cup time

I think it is a bit rich to pin all the blame on provincial unions and clubs. What happens at the top filters down to the local level. Personally I think the national governing body, in a country like Canada, should play a strong role promoting grassroots rugby. If there are major problems with rugby I think it is optimal that a national body would play a role fixing these. As it stands that isn't the case. Rugby Canada takes everyone else's money, lavishes it on themselves and a select few and that's it - this is at least the perception with lots of Canadian rugby folks.

Also mens dues where I live are well over $400! For 10-12 league games. It's crazy. Good luck attracting new players or 18-22 year olds. My club finished at the top of the standings in a geographic area covering 10 million people and barely has money for new balls. I've never seen a scrum machine and couldn't even dream of paying for a competent coach.

In general people seem to care/commit less to mens club rugby. The general attitude is one of malaise where there is so much BS, bad news, and obstacles to success that a lot of people have quit trying. Personally I think a lot of issues leading to this need to be dealt with at a higher level. People also used to take pride in club rugby, but as mentioned it seems closer to a rec league these days in places. The posted game is pretty **** poor if those are the two best clubs in Canada.

 

[Beerfalo]

Canada has announced the roster for next months World 7s Series stops. I think it's a pretty solid team that should be able to get out of the group in Dubai. South Africa will most likely finish top of the group but Canada should keep pace with Wales and shouldn't have too much trouble with Portugal. The return of Phil Mack should give them a real spark and take some pressure off of the rest. Admir Cejvanovic(1st 7s cap) and Sean White are also good additions. Looks like they are giving Dala and Hearn a chance to rest up after a month of 15s. Liam Middleton is also making his coaching debut for Canada so it'll be exciting to see what he can do. I have high hopes for this group and hope they can wipe away the foul taste Canada 15s has left me with the last year and a bit.

http://www.rugbycanada.ca/leagues/newsletter.cfm?clientID=3817&leagueID=0&page=84300

Canada's Roster for Dubai and Port Elizabeth - (Club, CRC Team) Hometown, Province

Admir Cejvanovic – (Burnaby Lake RFC/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC
Justin Douglas – (Abbotsford RFC) Abbotsford, BC
Sean Duke – (UVIC Vikes/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC
Mike Fuailefau – (Castaway Wanderers/BC Bears) Victoria, BC
Lucas Hammond – (Toronto Nomads/Ontario Blues) Toronto, ON
Harry Jones – (Capilano RFC/BC Bears) North Vancouver, BC
Phil Mack – (James Bay AA/BC Bears) Victoria, BC
John Moonlight – Captain (James Bay AA/Ontario Blues) Pickering, ON
Jack Smith – (James Bay AA/Ontario Blues) Lakefield, ON
Conor Trainor – (UBCOB Ravens/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC
Sean White – (James Bay AA/BC Bears) Victoria, BC
Adam Zaruba – (Capilano RFC/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC

Players Unavailable due to injury or other commitments:
Nanyak Dala – (Castaway Wanderers/Prairie Wolf Pack)
Ciaran Hearn – (Castaway Wanderers/Atlantic Rock) Conception Bay South, NL
Nathan Hirayama – (UVIC Vikes/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC
Liam Underwood – (Ontario Blues) Toronto, ON

Dubai Sevens Day One Schedule:
Canada vs. Wales at 09:22am local time (12:22am ET/9:22pm PT on December 4)
Canada vs. South Africa at 12:00pm local time (3:00am ET/0:00am PT)
Canada vs. Portugal at 3:46pm local time (6:46am ET/3:46am PT)

 

[canadafan]

Guess Trainor didn't do enough to go pro in Europe.

 

[jonny24]

I learned some frustrating news at my teams AGM last night. We have a very good youth program, one of the biggest in the province, that we're very proud of and have some good upcoming talent. We have something like 205 kids(boys and girls) in our system from U7s(tag rugby) all the way up to U19s. Anyways, apparently going forward it will cost parents something like $2500 per child(it already cost like $1500) to participate in rep rugby. How can the provincial unions and Rugby Canada justify that and where is the money going because no one at our club knows. Can we really afford to be pricing out families like this? Soon it will be not who deserves to go but who can afford to go and that will hurt the unions and Canada as a whole.

What is it that costs 2500? That's to play provincial?

 

[Beerfalo]

I believe the $2500 is to play for Alberta in the National games. I'm kinda hazy about the full details because I was starting to drift out by the time we got to Juniors discussion. I do remember it cost $300(I think it was for travel) per Edmonton based players(my club had decent representation so we discussed it) to go down to Calgary and play for Alberta.

I'm not sure how much it costs to be in the Edmonton Gold Academy and do whatever they do. I know ERU Gold 7s goes to Vegas 7s to compete and I believe the kids(parents) have to pay for it(last I was told they do). Though they do fundraising for them to help alleviate Gold costs. I read Lionheart 7s Women have to pay $1500 to be on the team in Vegas so I assume it would be similar though I'm not positive. No idea what Lionheart Men pay.

I know when some of my buddies made the Jr Wolf Pack this year they had to pay their own way and Edmonton to Newfoundland ain't cheap. I just think all the pay to play is a hindrance to the growth of the sport and strengthening of the Canadian program. If Canadians actually had a realistic shot at playing pro one day then maybe I'd understand it a bit more. I mean c'mon there's what maybe 20 Canadians playing pro 15s out there right now and that's being generous. At least the costs aren't as bad as hockey I guess.

Hell I just play club level for fun and it costs $400 to play. I'm also spending $64 a month in the off-season(, along with some of my teammates, to do speed/conditioning training with a Canadian Olympian(my club set it up and are helping to pay costs for those interested). I really do like and need the training though haha. That's closing in on $800(assuming the S/C training ends at the start of the season) I'm spending a year just to play a game where I have little hope of moving past division two/three. Sounds kinda crazy actually but I do love the game and my club hahaha. Then add in a monthly gym membership but everyone should be working out anyways because being healthy is important. I can't think of anything else I'd want to spend the money on but it's still a decent chunk of change.

 

[jonny24]

Also mens dues where I live are well over $400! For 10-12 league games. It's crazy. Good luck attracting new players or 18-22 year olds. My club finished at the top of the standings in a geographic area covering 10 million people and barely has money for new balls. I've never seen a scrum machine and couldn't even dream of paying for a competent coach.

Hell I just play club level for fun and it costs $400 to play. I'm also spending $64 a month in the off-season(, along with some of my teammates, to do speed/conditioning training with a Canadian Olympian(my club set it up and are helping to pay costs for those interested). I really do like and need the training though haha. That's closing in on $800(assuming the S/C training ends at the start of the season) I'm spending a year just to play a game where I have little hope of moving past division two/three.

Just for the sake of getting different points of view:

I paid $235 this past year to play senior men- 10 games. Juniors don't pay anything for the club, only the RC and RO costs (165ish?), and College/Uni player get a discount as well. I'm told we have pretty much the lowest dues in Ontario, but it can still be a lot depending on your situation. As Beerfalo points out its a lot better than hockey or football.

The flip side of that is that as far as I know we don't pay for any facilities. This is a small club in the lower branch leagues- We get promoted to A division (3rd tier in the province) once in a while, but we'll never go any farther than that. Nobody's paying for any off-season training other than gym memberships they have anyway.

I have no idea what our Junior Blues guys pay, but $2500 seems crazy. Now if you're including airfare around the country, that's more understandable. But the $1000 increase is definitely hard to swallow. You'd think a gradual increase every year to reflect costs would make more sense. Vegas as a one-off tournament makes more sense to have to pay to go- We looked at it last year and it was around the $1000 mark. But provincial competition, especially for juniors, needs to be more affordable than that.

I'm kinda hazy about the full details because I was starting to drift out...

Sounds like me at our last AGM!

 

[Beerfalo]

I know the Edmonton Gold 7s expense isn't the best example but I was listing it as another potential cost for parents of high level kids.

Well my club fees are only like $260 for senior men. It's the Rugby Alberta and Rugby Canada fees that push it to $400. Students, rookies and youth all pay less than the Men which is fair. My club has three fields, a clubhouse, one of the biggest youth programs in the province as well as currently a team in all three men divisions so I can't complain really. If only we had a gym but we can't all be St Albert.

 

[jonny24]

@Beerfalo Who knows, mine may go up significantly if our plans to get a field and clubhouse are successful.



I was daydreaming today. Can you imagine if we had all the nation's rugby in the same size geographic area as England?

Windsor to Ottawa is 800 km. Plymouth to Newcastle is like 650km...

 

[LittleGuy]

@Beerfalo Who knows, mine may go up significantly if our plans to get a field and clubhouse are successful.



I was daydreaming today. Can you imagine if we had all the nation's rugby in the same size geographic area as England?

Windsor to Ottawa is 800 km. Plymouth to Newcastle is like 650km...

Is the NRU still going all the way down to Windsor? I remember pals on Grimsby, St. Catharines, Niagara et. al. having to drive there and it was a disaster, many of the games teams played shorthanded as not enough people travelled and a few outright forfeits happened.

Speaking of St. Catharines, I don't know that many people still on the team(or haven't talked to them in ages) and I just had a huge giggle after seeing their place on the table, 0-10 and losing by like a 40 point average in the lowest division of the regional league! I know they used to have problems with better guys running to the Niagara Falls sides or even moving up to play in like Stoney Creek or Burlington but that's awful surely they should be able to recruit a couple of decent Brock guys for there club!

 

[LittleGuy]

Just had a quick go through of some recent Canadian captains to see just how bad Ardron's 0-7 start is in comparison.

These records might not be exact and I've included non test games(e.g. Moari, England "A") though not Canada "A" matches(like ARC). I also left out Morgan Williams win against the NZ u-20's as it's not really a proper men's side. It's a truly terrible start and only Tkachuk's dour record as captain is comparable in terms of wins/losses though Tkachuk's Canada had some true shockers in some of his losses as captain.

So here they are since Charron retired at the end of the 2003 RWC.

Wins-Losses-Draws

Tkachuk: 1-5
Lawson: 2-0
Williams: 5-9-1
Riordan: 15-16-1
Carpenter: 8-5
Buydens: 2-2
Ardron: 0-7

 

[canadafan]

Only two, Riordan and Carpenter's records are respectable. Honestly, I thought giving the captaincy yo Buydens was a good idea, never should have given it back to Ardron IMO.

 

[LittleGuy]

Williams isn't too horrible considering how tough some of the games during his tenure was, Lawson is the opposite both wins coming over the States and Japan so he was just Johnny on the spot for those two.

Barkwill just got suspended for nine weeks for a slight eye gouge incident against Romania. Cudmore had been accused of something(think it was a punch) but was cleared so maybe someone was trying to take advantage of his reputation.

 

[canadafan]

Forget about that (Barkwill), why couldn't he have done that against the Championship XV?

 

[Beerfalo]

The Lloydminster Reapers applied to transfer to the ERU from the North Saskatchewan RU and the ERU accepted the transfer at the AGM. They had an NSRU 1st Div team but I have no idea how that compares to Edmonton and Calgary competition. I assume they'll slot into the 2nd Division though maybe they'll test themselves in 3rd Div first. Either way the ERU gets a new club and that's always cool, even if Lloydminster is not the best city to travel to. They are also bringing with them a Women's club which is a boost for women's rugby.

Edit: I just found out that Lloydminster Men are joining ERU 3rd Division which means now we have third div teams in Grande Prairie, Cold Lake, Edson, Drayton Valley and Lloydminster as well as the Edmonton area teams Westers, Leduc, Clan, Druids, Pirates, Leprechaun-Tigers and Parkland. The travel kinda sucks but the after game beers are pretty damn good with the out of towners. I don't know if any of y'all have ever driven around Central and Northern Alberta but it's pretty damn boring hahaha. At least we bus to Grande Prairie and spend the night there getting drunk and then drinking on the bus ride back to kill time.

Also jonny24 we'd probably have a pro league, or at the very least a very high level amateur competition like Argentina, and be on equal grounds with the Islanders if our rugby communities were in an 800km area. The sheer size of our country is the biggest hindrance to Canada becoming a power IMO. The best players from BC, Ontario, Alberta, Quebec, the Prairies and Atlantic Canada just can't compete against each other outside of the CRC unless they all pack up and move to BC during the winter which most can't. It's quite frustrating but we can't do anything about it. Just gotta continue with the CRC I guess, hope for the Voyageurs to buck up and move up and then hope the USA gets a pro league and latch onto it like with MLS. Or pray that TSN/Bell decide they want to pump money into rugby.

 

[Beerfalo]

Sadly Harry Jones isn't going to be heading to Dubai or South Africa because of injury it seems. It's a shame because he really is a good 7s player. Pat Kay is taking his spot during the tour. Jones and Hirayama are hurt, Hearn and Dala are resting after November and Braid is in Europe, Canada 7s is going to really need guys to step up big.

Also with Barkwill being suspended for 9 weeks does it even really affect him? It's not like he was ever going to get a pro contract. He plays in BC during the winter I thought and they are now on a two month winter break because why play in the beauty of summer like the rest of Canada.... By the time they start up again it'll be around 9 weeks.

Speaking of Canadian front row, does anyone know if Buydens or Marshall attracted any attention in Europe? Both are talented enough to be starters over there and it would be a shame for the two of them to have to return to the CDI league. I still can't believe Doncaster wasn't allowed to sign Buydens back in the summer because of the stupid overseas foreigner rule.

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/feat...hts-packing-down-with-a-transatlantic-accent/ <---old article but it still really bugs me. Why can Europeans(EU) and Islanders(Kolpak) go wherever but North Americans get restrictions. Especially from a Commonwealth country like Canada.

 

[dragos03]

Cudmore had been accused of something(think it was a punch) but was cleared so maybe someone was trying to take advantage of his reputation.

He did punch, it happened right in front of my position in the stands (I think Alin Coste was the "victim"). I guess someone saw it but the cameras did not catch it, so he got cleared. But it's no big deal anyway, these things happen in rugby.

 

[amz]

Macovei was suspended for 6 weeks, striking opponent with forearm on a tackle (Canada 7). It happened at around 2:40 minute during the match at a breakdown on Canadian left side of attack, after a tackle over Canada 13. Canadian flanker have fractures in the right side of his face including his inferior orbital bone, his maxillary and ethmoid sinusitis and nasal bones. At this time the fracture does not need surgery although this could change on reassessment. He played for next 60 minutes and noticed his cheekbone is fractured one hour later.