2014 Canadian Rugby Championship and General Canadian Rugby Chat.

[Beerfalo]

I'm looking at Sportsnet World right now and they have European Championship, Round 1: Harlequins vs Castres Olympique advertised for today as well as Northampton vs Racing Metro and Leicester vs Ulster tomorrow and some more on Sunday. So we may not get Aviva, Pro 12 or Top 14 but at least it looks like we get some European rugby this year.

 

[jonny24]

I am so annoyed at them losing those rights this year... I had the Sportsnet world online rugby subscription, and watched a AP or Pro12 game almost every day.

 

[Beerfalo]

To bring the conversation from the ARC thread to our thread, I think Canada is starting to take rugby seriously at the lower levels or at least I hope.

My club has youth teams all the way down to U13 and training for kids younger than that(there are kids so young they came up to my knee). The kids are starting to grow up in the sport and learning the game instead of the old method of kids only starting at the high school level(though still "a lot" of them as well). We had a kid play for U20 Canada a couple years back, three members on the U19 Wolf Pack this year, plus a number of kids over the years on the Alberta U16 and U18 teams. A good amount of our men's team are still in their early 20's so still time for development and with our addition of division one team they are getting a good bump up in competition against the likes of St Albert RFC, Calgary Hornets and Strathcona Druids and a number are holding their own quite well. On our div one men's team right now we have some talented Backrow who have a lot of potential and I wouldn't be shocked if they were knocking on the Wolf Pack door soon, our starting prop is now playing in the CDI Premier League for Rowing Club, my brother is showing a lot of promise as a Div One Hooker though he has to get fitter. We went through a rough patch in the last decade but we're definitely starting to turn the corner and are really committed to the game especially towards personal improvement and are real proud of our youth programs.

The other big ones are the Edmonton Clansmen, Strathcona Druids and St Albert RFC as all four of our clubs have U17 and U19 programs. The Pirates also have a U19 team. Aside from the club level there's also the Edmonton Gold Academy for the most talented U14, U16 and U18 kids(boys and girls). Duncan Maguire is especially a big promoter of youth rugby in the city and helps out. The sport is growing here though we don't have the resources of BC and Ontario and there's also stiff competition from hockey, Canadian Football and Basketball when it comes to athlete choices.

I'm not sure how things are going in the rest of Canada though. The Calgary Mavericks teams are pretty great from the men's team down through their youth so I'm assuming they are committed and have strong youth programs and development.

I do think we need a better alternative to the CRC. Yes it concentrates the talent but also excludes a number of talented players and a lot of guys fall to the side. I still would like to see a return to a format similar to the old RCSL in the near future. I firmly believe the different unions should be in charge of their elite programs though I admit it's not realistic financially right now. I know number of Edmonton players think the Wolf Pack(especially Moffat) are biased towards the CRU and would like to see the competitive return of Edmonton Gold. I can't even imagine how Saskatchewan and Manitoba players must feel towards the Wolf Pack. But for now I hope Rugby Canada can just get a TV deal for the CRC done. Television exposure could go a long way towards letting people know the sport exists and could maybe increase the player and talent pool over time.

For development purposes I think Crowley and Rugby Canada should send representatives to talk to the different Unions on a yearly basis and discuss they're plans, what the Unions should be striving for and how to get there. Invite representatives from each club in the Union to come and talk with them FREE OF CHARGE. The ultimate combined goal for everyone should be forming strong leagues and youth systems to feed the National team and that involves growing the sport nation wide, not just in BC and Ontario. Not everyone can uproot and play in the Marshall and CDI Premier Leagues.

 

[jonny24]

Thanks for the post Beerfalo, a lot of good info.

Maybe the sub unions could run a rep competition as kind of a level below CRC at the same time. They could even have double headers, say Niagara Rugby Union vs Edmonton Rugby Union as an opener before Blues vs. Wolf Pack. The subs still run junior programs, all four Ontario sub unions ran teams in he Ontario Summer Games this year.

My club is slowly increasing our junior programs as numbers allow. Right now we've got u18 boys, u18 and u15 or 16 girls, and little kid rugby on Saturday mornings. I know some of the big clubs have way more.

 

[rays_rugby]

I do think we need a better alternative to the CRC.

The CRC is the best thing we have going short of a professional competition. More than four teams would severely dilute the level of competition at this stage. In the east, the three provinces NB, NS, NFLD play each other in a round-robin and the best players get picked for the Atlantic Rock side, so it's not far at all from the old RCSL.

excludes a number of talented players and a lot of guys fall to the side.

Like who? My main gripe with the CRC is that it should have an u20 competition piggy-backed on it, but that costs $$$.

I can't even imagine how Saskatchewan and Manitoba players must feel towards the Wolf Pack.

Looking only at the Wolf Pack's starting hookers, Casey Reed is from Moose Jaw and Matt Harrison is from Winnipeg. If you want to succeed in Canada, you have to make sacrifices. Just imagine how the rest of Canada feels about BC?

I hope Rugby Canada can just get a TV deal for the CRC done.

RC can't even get a webcast deal done for the Blues-Wolf Pack final in Ontario. How about we get a TV deal for the ARC first?

I think Rugby Canada should send representatives to talk to the different Unions on a yearly basis

RC basically already does this, or invites the union reps out to meet them in Ontario. What exactly is that helping? At the end of the day the sticking point is $$$. Who is going to fund the development officers? Where does all the money from the IRB go? Where does the sponsorship money go? How do we get new sponsors? It's a slow process. To get more money from sponsors we need more people watching. To get more people watching we need better players and better refs. To get better players and better refs we need better coaches. To get better coaches we need more money... you get the point. Why don't you Albertans start donating some of that delicious oil money to the cause?

 

[rusty_lock]

To bring the conversation from the ARC thread to our thread, I think Canada is starting to take rugby seriously at the lower levels or at least I hope.

My club has youth teams all the way down to U13 and training for kids younger than that(there are kids so young they came up to my knee). The kids are starting to grow up in the sport and learning the game instead of the old method of kids only starting at the high school level(though still "a lot" of them as well). We had a kid play for U20 Canada a couple years back, three members on the U19 Wolf Pack this year, plus a number of kids over the years on the Alberta U16 and U18 teams. A good amount of our men's team are still in their early 20's so still time for development and with our addition of division one team they are getting a good bump up in competition against the likes of St Albert RFC, Calgary Hornets and Strathcona Druids and a number are holding their own quite well. On our div one men's team right now we have some talented Backrow who have a lot of potential and I wouldn't be shocked if they were knocking on the Wolf Pack door soon, our starting prop is now playing in the CDI Premier League for Rowing Club, my brother is showing a lot of promise as a Div One Hooker though he has to get fitter. We went through a rough patch in the last decade but we're definitely starting to turn the corner and are really committed to the game especially towards personal improvement and are real proud of our youth programs.

The other big ones are the Edmonton Clansmen, Strathcona Druids and St Albert RFC as all four of our clubs have U17 and U19 programs. The Pirates also have a U19 team. Aside from the club level there's also the Edmonton Gold Academy for the most talented U14, U16 and U18 kids(boys and girls). Duncan Maguire is especially a big promoter of youth rugby in the city and helps out. The sport is growing here though we don't have the resources of BC and Ontario and there's also stiff competition from hockey, Canadian Football and Basketball when it comes to athlete choices.

I'm not sure how things are going in the rest of Canada though. The Calgary Mavericks teams are pretty great from the men's team down through their youth so I'm assuming they are committed and have strong youth programs and development.

I do think we need a better alternative to the CRC. Yes it concentrates the talent but also excludes a number of talented players and a lot of guys fall to the side. I still would like to see a return to a format similar to the old RCSL in the near future. I firmly believe the different unions should be in charge of their elite programs though I admit it's not realistic financially right now. I know number of Edmonton players think the Wolf Pack(especially Moffat) are biased towards the CRU and would like to see the competitive return of Edmonton Gold. I can't even imagine how Saskatchewan and Manitoba players must feel towards the Wolf Pack. But for now I hope Rugby Canada can just get a TV deal for the CRC done. Television exposure could go a long way towards letting people know the sport exists and could maybe increase the player and talent pool over time.

For development purposes I think Crowley and Rugby Canada should send representatives to talk to the different Unions on a yearly basis and discuss they're plans, what the Unions should be striving for and how to get there. Invite representatives from each club in the Union to come and talk with them FREE OF CHARGE. The ultimate combined goal for everyone should be forming strong leagues and youth systems to feed the National team and that involves growing the sport nation wide, not just in BC and Ontario. Not everyone can uproot and play in the Marshall and CDI Premier Leagues.

This is a great post Beerfalo. In my mind there is a disconnect between HS rugby and club rugby. Last year at the BC HS provicials there were 800 kids playing. Half of them would have been in grade 12. Where are they this year? Why did they quit playing? We have this vibrant HS Rugby community but no continuity leading to any thing after. In my mind the local clubs/subunions are dropping the ball. Until that changes we are dead in the water as far as growth is concerned.

 

[jonny24]

This is a great post Beerfalo. In my mind there is a disconnect between HS rugby and club rugby. Last year at the BC HS provicials there were 800 kids playing. Half of them would have been in grade 12. Where are they this year? Why did they quit playing? We have this vibrant HS Rugby community but no continuity leading to any thing after. In my mind the local clubs/subunions are dropping the ball. Until that changes we are dead in the water as far as growth is concerned.

Some good questions RL. I think there's probably a big drop in participation in all sports after high school- increased workload of college/uni, increased social life and part time jobs, it's hard to make time for. But as for club which for most of the country is during summer months off of school, I don't know.

Ideally, players should be in the club system before leaving high school. That means the clubs have to be in direct contact with the school coaches, if they aren't already involved with coaching themselves. The school coach needs to be saying "play club- here's how, where and when" as well as clubs saying "Here we are- come play!"

The progress clubs are making with junior programs will help with that, as kids will now be involved with club before getting to high school- but I think there will always be a significant number of players who start in high school, if only because that is where they are first exposed to the sport. I had no clue about rugby existed at all until grade 9. I remember seeing the girls team practicing lineouts and going "What the heck is that?"

I think that RC's number one goal (aside from WC preparation) should be to get the CRC on TSN. Any regular rugby on TV would be good, but the popularity and influence of TSN would be the best way of doing it. Even if they got the rights to it for free it would be a huge boost, but ideally there could be some form of payment going to the teams and players. If TSN is actually investing, they'll have incentive to promote it well enough to succeed.

 

[Kempistry]

Some good questions RL. I think there's probably a big drop in participation in all sports after high school- increased workload of college/uni, increased social life and part time jobs, it's hard to make time for. But as for club which for most of the country is during summer months off of school, I don't know.

Ideally, players should be in the club system before leaving high school. That means the clubs have to be in direct contact with the school coaches, if they aren't already involved with coaching themselves. The school coach needs to be saying "play club- here's how, where and when" as well as clubs saying "Here we are- come play!"

The progress clubs are making with junior programs will help with that, as kids will now be involved with club before getting to high school- but I think there will always be a significant number of players who start in high school, if only because that is where they are first exposed to the sport. I had no clue about rugby existed at all until grade 9. I remember seeing the girls team practicing lineouts and going "What the heck is that?"

I think that RC's number one goal (aside from WC preparation) should be to get the CRC on TSN. Any regular rugby on TV would be good, but the popularity and influence of TSN would be the best way of doing it. Even if they got the rights to it for free it would be a huge boost, but ideally there could be some form of payment going to the teams and players. If TSN is actually investing, they'll have incentive to promote it well enough to succeed.

Agreed wholeheartedly on the disconnect between HS and club rugby and even HS and college/university. It seems to be left entirely to chance that some club will somehow have people able to help coach and therefore get players, which is very difficult for anyone with a job to do. Or that some HS teacher will know to tell his kids to play rugby. Some schools have teams that fold as they have no coaches and nobody knows even. The clubs don't individually have the resources to track all this or make contact with every HS and it goes by the wayside. The clubs also very frequently try to steal players from each other's junior teams and work at cross purposes. One year a local club told juniors that other teams didn't even have a team knowing that they did. The result? Two teams with 50-60 players and four teams with 12-20. In what other minor sport does that happen??? You think those 50-60 even had fun winning 100-0 or getting no rugby games.

If I was Rugby Canada I would attempt to stipulate that each union or sub Union must:
a) maintain a list of all HS teams and have contact info for the coach. Ideally also collect contact info for all registered players.
b) host two tournaments a year for HS rugby teams and market appropriately
c) create geographic boundaries that dictate what club you must play for, provided they have a proper coach. Teams can only x players more than another team and players will be transferred if needed.

That would require minimal effort and at least where I live would do a world of good.

 

[Jayatron]

If Rugby League can attempt something like this, then pro rugby in North America must be on the cards, soon.

http://www.runningrugby.com/law-and-governance/canada-based-team-seek-to-join-championship-one/

 

[LittleGuy]

The guys who run League in Canada, are young, passionate, full of new ideas and extremely hard working. Great at promoting their product and are growing at a rapid rate.

While our Union board is full of crusty old farts looking after their own parochial and nepotisitic interests while sticking to old ideas about the sport's promotion.

 

[jonny24]

Would the Blues or Bears be good enough to compete at say the English Championship level?

 

[Beerfalo]

Would the Blues or Bears be good enough to compete at say the English Championship level?

We'll find out how good the Blues are when they face Edinburgh A next Monday. Anyways Canadian winters outside the GVA/Vancouver Island aren't really suitable for European leagues since all the snow and cold. We'd need a team based IN Europe if we wanted a team of Canadians playing European competition.

I would definitely back a Canadian development team competing in one of the better countries, preferably NZ in the Heartland Championship. Kind of like how Argentina had the Pampas XV in the Vodacom Cup in South Africa. Would require a lot of fundraising and sponsorship to cover the bills as well as lots of ass kissing from Rugby Canada.

 

[LittleGuy]

In some positive Canadian News tonight, Gareth Rees has been inducted into the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame. The first rugby player to be inducted, hopefully Charron gets some looks soon.

 

[canadafan]

'positive Canadian Rugby News' isn't that an oxymoron?

 

[canadafan]

Union is growing in much of Canada, but is also slowly going downhill in B.C. The earlier posts about trying to keep high school players involved in the sport is a good one and must be addressed. A rep side in the championship(tier 2 England) is not a bad idea. I know of a prop who has been invited to play down in NZ with the Hamstead club.

 

[LittleGuy]

Long list for the tour squad announced. A few surpising choices, I have no idea how Seb Pearson played himself into the side based on his ARC form, Richard Thorpe is an out of left field selection as well. The forward pack is pretty much our best possible and even Cudmore appears to be turning out for a test or two, backs we are missing a few injured guys but hopefully the depth can shine through. Harry Jones isn't playing and Hirayama is out as well so I'm guessing Braid might handle the duties at FH or maybe even Parfrey(wow sucha weak spot for us).


CANADA'S LONG LIST OF PLAYERS FOR NOVEMBER TOUR:


Tyler Ardron – Captain (Ospreys/Ontario Blues) Lakefield, ON


Ray Barkwill – (Niagara Wasps RFC/Ontario Blues) Niagara Falls, ON


Nick Blevins – (Calgary Hornets/Prairie Wolf Pack) Calgary, AB


Connor Braid – (James Bay AA/BC Bears) Victoria, BC


Brett Buekeboom – (Plymouth Albion) Lindsay, ON


Hubert Buydens – (Manawatu Turbos/Prairie Wolf Pack) Saskatoon, SK


Aaron Carpenter – (Cornish Pirates RFC) Brantford, ON


Jamie Cudmore – (ASM Clermont Auvergne) Squamish, BC


Nanyak Dala (Castaway Wanderers/Prairie Wolf Pack) Regina, SK


Sean Duke, (UVIC Vikes/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC


Kyle Gilmour – (St. Albert RFC/Prairie Wolf Pack) St. Albert, AB


Ryan Hamilton, (Capilano RFC/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC


Jeff Hassler – (Ospreys/Prairie Wolf Pack) Okotoks, AB


Ciaran Hearn – (Castaway Wanderers/Atlantic Rock) Conception Bay South, NL


Tyler Hotson – (London Scottish RFC) Vancouver, BC


Jake Ilnicki – (NSW County Eagles/BC Bears) Williams Lake, BC


Jamie Mackenzie – (UVIC Vikes/Ontario Blues) Oakville, ON


Jason Marshall – (Hawkes Bay Magpies/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC


Gordon McRorie – (Calgary Hornets/Prairie Wolf Pack) Calgary, AB


John Moonlight – (James Bay AA/Ontario Blues) Pickering, ON


Patrick Parfrey, (Swilers RFC/Atlantic Rock) St. Johns, NL


Taylor Paris – (SU Agen Lot-et-Garonne) Barrie, ON


Seb Pearson, (London St. George's/Ontario Blues) London, ON


Jon Phelan – (Castaway Wanderers/Atlantic Rock) Montreal, QC


James Pritchard – (Bedford Blues) Parkes, NSW, Australia


Jebb Sinclair – (London Irish/Atlantic Rock) Fredericton, NB


Richard Thorpe – (London Welsh) Beckenham, Kent, England


Andrew Tiedemann – (Plymouth Albion/Prairie Wolf Pack) St. Albert, AB


Conor Trainor – (UBCOB Ravens/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC


DTH van der Merwe – (Glasgow Warriors) Regina, SK


Sean White – (James Bay AA/BC Bears) Victoria, BC


Jordan Wilson-Ross, (James Bay AA/Ontario Blues) Alliston, ON


Doug Wooldridge – (Lindsay RFC/Ontario Blues) Lindsay, ON


Unavailable due to injury:


Matt Evans – (Cornish Pirates) Maple Bay, BC


Harry Jones – (Capilanos RFC/BC Bears) Vancouver, BC


Phil Mack – (James Bay AA/BC Bears) Victoria, BC


Phil Mackenzie – (Sale Sharks) Oakville, ON


Mike Scholz – (Castaway Wanderers/Ontario Blues) Oakville, ON


Liam Underwood – (Ontario Blues) Toronto, ON

 

[Kempistry]

The guys who run League in Canada, are young, passionate, full of new ideas and extremely hard working. Great at promoting their product and are growing at a rapid rate.

While our Union board is full of crusty old farts looking after their own parochial and nepotisitic interests while sticking to old ideas about the sport's promotion.

I couldn't agree more and it seems that this attitude pervades Canadian rugby at every level.

 

[canadafan]

Long list for the tour squad announced. A few surpising choices, I have no idea how Seb Pearson played himself into the side based on his ARC form, Richard Thorpe is an out of left field selection as well. The forward pack is pretty much our best possible and even Cudmore appears to be turning out for a test or two, backs we are missing a few injured guys but hopefully the depth can shine through. Harry Jones isn't playing and Hirayama is out as well so I'm guessing Braid might handle the duties at FH or maybe even Parfrey(wow sucha weak spot for us).

Them not being there is like giving us a 7 to 14 point head start on the other sides.

 

[canadafan]

Some thoughts on the side:

No idea how Richard Thorpe qualifies, but he is starting at 7 for the London Welsh this weekend, so he might be a decent pick up for our side. However he is apparently also 30.

Tough on Smith, but can't argue that hard against Wooldridge making the side.

Tough on Olmstead, but they went with their pro locks and our depth in the backrow is quite strong. Think this also means that Sinclair will be playing 6.

Mackenzie and White are lucky! That should be sending thank you cards to Mack for him being injured.

Braid should start at fly half. If Parfrey starts at 10 for ANY match, I might throw my lap top out the window.

Not sure how Pearson made it, but he is still young. Glad Wilson-Ross made it though and hope he goes well in the Championship XV game, it will be a big one for him.

 

[LittleGuy]

I wonder if White was included as an emergency FH option as well, he actually plays there in CDI action. Mackenzie had a dreadful ARC so he's incredibly lucky to be there. I'm also taking a guess some of these 33 will only see action in the RFU Championship game, and I could see Cudmore only turning out for Samoa(and maybe Romania) while our other Tier 1 pro's only float in when the Namibia game preparations begin.