2014 6 Nations: England vs Wales (Round 4)

[ratsapprentice]

He was demolished in the second scrum - McGrath is practically sprinting through him.
If we had held on to the ball as long as we normally do, or we didn't strike the ball then we could have conceded a penalty.

He did well in the first scrum, I didn't mean to undersell it.
But Healy had been on the pitch for 70 minutes at that point.

On the third scrum he could have very easily been penalised for not driving straight.

Tom Youngs was only on for the last scrum, and he isn't a weak scrummager IMO anyway.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I hope and presume Wilson will get a game for Bath this weekend? I know he has had no game time but even so he was the poorest player on the field, not just at scrumtime

 

[Rhondda Rudie]

Although Gethin was excellent against France I'd be tempted to start with Paul James as the England front row looks weak without Corbs and Cole.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Wilson hasn't been released back to Bath.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Guess it makes sense as they don't want him getting injured - desperately needs more match fitness though. Hopefully the conditioners absolutely thrash him for the week.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Meh. Wales will have our scrum on toast whatever option we chose.

Even with Attwood, our 'tight-head' lock is only 18st 8lb by his Rfu profile or 18 st 2lb if his wikipedia is to be believed.

Compare that to Wales:

Jake Ball: Either 19st 1lb or 19st 0lb.
Luke Charteris: Either 20st 4lb or 19st 9lb
Alun Wyn-Jojes: Either 18st 6lb, 18st 8lb, or 19st 3lb

 

[Big Ewis]

Although Gethin was excellent against France I'd be tempted to start with Paul James as the England front row looks weak without Corbs and Cole.

I feel for England. Every nation should have its 2 best props to start a match, a scrum just can't be replaced, no nation in the world has a tighthead and loosehead as good as their starting ones or even close usually. Your TH and LH props aren't like wingers or centers or a loosie you can change from match to match, it really makes all the difference in the world often.
But Cole would've had trouble anyways, I feel Corbisiero would have made a big difference in the scrum on this coming day compared to Marler, vs Adam Jones.

Ireland has come a long way in the past 2 years in the scrum but even though they had a great day in that field against England, they're still no Adam Jones-led Welsh scrum. It could get ugly for England in there next week...and Wales surely know that and will target it. Well, they'd be fools not to single that point out preparing the match...

 

[ratsapprentice]

I'd wager that Dave Attwood is at least 19 stone and probably closer to 20.

I'd also say that he's a more capable athlete than any of those three.
Alun-Wyn is deceptively strong, but he's not very powerful.
Charteris needs to use a large range of motion in order to make use of his bulk. (Similar to Lawes, but to a greater extent)
Jake Ball doesn't exactly exude athleticism.

Dave is strong and powerful.

I'm not sure what you're worrying about.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I wouldn't read too much into Charteris' weight either, considering he's 30ft tall. It's like when the BBC like to go on about how big Richie Gray is, when in reality he's pretty sleight of frame for a Lock, and there are locks a couple of stone lighter who'd be far more powerful/strong.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Well look I'm not saying Attwood isn't big enough, though I'd be extremely surprised if he was over 19 stone. Maybe someone can tweet him and ask him to stand on a set of scales?
However the scrummaging worry is primary that of Marler and co versus A.Jones and co - and it's compounded up by the fact that Wales don't even have top try to get big locks on the field. They couldn't field a lightweight lock even if they wanted to! Oh, apart from Ryan Jones.

As for being a tall rangy lock - yep it certainly doesn't make you an effective carrier, often the opposite. But surely in locking down the scrum, having a 20st guy won't hurt.

 

[Peat]

Eh. Its more weight to push around, but it doesn't mean it will generate as much force coming back the other way, or that it will be technically correct.

I feel we concentrate a little too much on how locks weigh. Yes, there are some locks who visibly make a difference to scrums and unsurprisingly they tend to be heavy men, but it's strength not muscle mass. Not always the same. Really it will come down to Jones vs Marler.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Someone like Charteris is probably decent at locking out, but his build is almost exactly the opposite of what you'd want for pushing.

You're happy to believe Alun-Wyn Jones is heavier than Attwood (bearing in mind DA is 6'7" and AWJ 6'5")??

This is all ignoring the fact that Courtney Lawes weights in at 111kg - one of the genuinely believable listings from the RFU.

 

[j'nuh]

Including the HC, that's 185 tackles. Tackle completion rate of 93%. In a team that has conceded the second most amount of points.

The thing holding him back is his penalty count imo.

Also, that's very impressive from Morgan. He's played around 2/3 of the minutes Kvesic has. If Morgan had played the same number of mins as Kvesic, he'd be around 120 tackles too.

 

[AKA]

I feel for England. Every nation should have its 2 best props to start a match, a scrum just can't be replaced, no nation in the world has a tighthead and loosehead as good as their starting ones or even close usually. Your TH and LH props aren't like wingers or centers or a loosie you can change from match to match, it really makes all the difference in the world often.
But Cole would've had trouble anyways, I feel Corbisiero would have made a big difference in the scrum on this coming day compared to Marler, vs Adam Jones.

Ireland has come a long way in the past 2 years in the scrum but even though they had a great day in that field against England, they're still no Adam Jones-led Welsh scrum. It could get ugly for England in there next week...and Wales surely know that and will target it. Well, they'd be fools not to single that point out preparing the match...

I fully agree, I also think Gethin Jenkins is very underrated as a scrummager, he can hold his own against anyone in world rugby and it also helps that he plays like a fat flanker. I think he will do the job just fine. I think England will struggle in the scrum no matter who they put on and I can see Wales winning by 10. Lets hope I don't have to eat my words.

 

[Big Ewis]

I fully agree, I also think Gethin Jenkins is very underrated as a scrummager, he can hold his own against anyone in world rugby and it also helps that he plays like a fat flanker. I think he will do the job just fine. I think England will struggle in the scrum no matter who they put on and I can see Wales winning by 10. Lets hope I don't have to eat my words.

as long as it's not with a ton of mint or wtvr these barbarians use as condiment...

 

[Toby Sweeney]

I fully agree, I also think Gethin Jenkins is very underrated as a scrummager, he can hold his own against anyone in world rugby and it also helps that he plays like a fat flanker. I think he will do the job just fine. I think England will struggle in the scrum no matter who they put on and I can see Wales winning by 10. Lets hope I don't have to eat my words.

Wales winning by 10 points...:roflrol:

 

[Big Ewis]

Wales winning by 10 points...:roflrol:

k...8 ?

 

[Maverick1987]

I can see wales winning tbh by a couple of points probably just feel the front row problem we have at the minute is going to cost us . However if launchbury and lawes carry on as they have been I can see them causing carnage at the line out if I was Lancaster I'd have the team watch Ireland vs Wales about 30 times this week ....

 

[dullonien]

Charteris wasn't playing against Ireland. He's our best lineout jumper Even if he gets used as a decoy quite often, he draws the attention of opposition jumpers simply because he's so tall. Hibbard was also better with the darts against France. Whilst our lineout has always been a little dodgy, I'm not too worried about it for this game.

 

[Maverick1987]

Charteris wasn't playing against Ireland. He's our best lineout jumper Even if he gets used as a decoy quite often, he draws the attention of opposition jumpers simply because he's so tall. Hibbard was also better with the darts against France. Whilst our lineout has always been a little dodgy, I'm not too worried about it for this game.

I think if I was welsh that's one of the only forward bases things if be worried about . Very often the welsh line out let's them down especially when heavily contested