[2013] ITM Cup: Round 2

[ABs2011]

sorry i'm a bit late to the party...had to sober up for work!

Can i get a collective TRF prayer that we can /get Bender (smith) back for the defense?

From what I hear he is SUPER KEEN to play - it will come down to whether he is released or not....Just read a quick article that suggests the ABs have released 10 players and Smith aint one of them...sorry...and whats worse for you lads, Ben Franks is going to play!

It seems the rule of thumb is that if you are a starter you wont be released!

Congrats to Otago by the way! Massive for the team and region!!

 

[Kiwiwomble]

and thats is what is wrong with rugby in NZ...would love to know what they would do if he just left

its a bye week! and Ensor is injured

 

[Larksea]

even as a waikato man i'm kinda happy to see the shield go. pretty pathetic crowd only a couple thousand. Surely a defense will pack out an otago game.

ben smith aint going to be released... should they release Dagg as well to play for the bay? Retalick as well? (I think he's bay?)

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Are NZ Unions compensated for having to release their players to the All Blacks during the ITM Cup?

 

[ABs2011]

and thats is what is wrong with rugby in NZ...would love to know what they would do if he just left

On your first point (in general terms), what's the alternative?? Do what they are doing in SA?
Re Nonu, he is still an integral part of the ABs. They will want to find a place for him in NZ. If he decides to pack up and go? Well he goes and wont play for the ABs - simple.
Again as I have said there is more to the Nonu/Super Rugby thing than meets the eye. The NZRFU, the Canes and Nonu will work something out!

 

[ABs2011]

even as a waikato man i'm kinda happy to see the shield go. pretty pathetic crowd only a couple thousand. Surely a defense will pack out an otago game.

ben smith aint going to be released... should they release Dagg as well to play for the bay? Retalick as well? (I think he's bay?)

Think Retalick is BOP - no longer HB!

Difference between Ben Smith and Dagg/Retalick IMHO (and why I would love to see him released) is he has show massive commitment to Otago and in particular club rugby down there as well. I know he almost certainly won't get released to play but it would be great to see him run out for Otago to help them defend the shield!

 

[dasNdanger]

Just watched the Otago v Waikato game. Great game, and congrats to Otago! One thing, though - and maybe this is because I'm suddenly suspicious of referees based on a comment made in the 'rugby is awful' thread about corrupt soccer/football refs.

In the final moments of the game I saw a couple very un-straight scrum feeds by Waikato, and then a possible knock on, both with the ref right there and no call was made (the knock on may have been a knock 'back', but the scrum feeds were glaringly crooked). I usually don't criticize refs too much because I don't really know the game well enough, but these things seemed obvious, yet the ref seemingly ignored them to Waikato's favor. Please tell me there is no corruption in the ranks of the rugby referees (bias I can excuse, corruption I cannot).


das

 

[ABs2011]

Just watched the Otago v Waikato game. Great game, and congrats to Otago! One thing, though - and maybe this is because I'm suddenly suspicious of referees based on a comment made in the 'rugby is awful' thread about corrupt soccer/football refs.

In the final moments of the game I saw a couple very un-straight scrum feeds by Waikato, and then a possible knock on, both with the ref right there and no call was made (the knock on may have been a knock 'back', but the scrum feeds were glaringly crooked). I usually don't criticize refs too much because I don't really know the game well enough, but these things seemed obvious, yet the ref seemingly ignored them to Waikato's favor. Please tell me there is no corruption in the ranks of the rugby referees (bias I can excuse, corruption I cannot).


das

Hi Das,


Your observations are fair, and while I'm not sure which knock on you are reffering to, what I htink you will find is that in particular, at the end of very tight games, refs will be reluctant to award a penalty for trivial stuff like when the ball is not fed in straight to the scrum. Had Waikato been warned about that already? Im not sure, regardless I think refs dont want to effectively end the game on something so small. Might go for the "knock on" too if it was a bit bordeline.

I highly doubt there is any corruption amongst ITM cup refs. Nothing I have watched suggests that anyway...

 

[ABs2011]

By the way, is anyone else playing virtual rugby??
http://virtualfantasysport.nzherald.co.nz/

 

[Kiwiwomble]

even as a waikato man i'm kinda happy to see the shield go. pretty pathetic crowd only a couple thousand. Surely a defense will pack out an otago game.

ben smith aint going to be released... should they release Dagg as well to play for the bay? Retalick as well? (I think he's bay?)

yes...yes he should (assuming Dagg wants to). Dont get me wrong, if the ab's were playing then they should stay in camp as at the moment they are both starters...but they should be playing in the biggest game that weekend...and that is the Shield defence/challange....thats how we get crowds back to itm cup games, field better players

 

[ABs2011]

yes...yes he should (assuming Dagg wants to). Dont get me wrong, if the ab's were playing then they should stay in camp as at the moment they are both starters...but they should be playing in the biggest game that weekend...and that is the Shield defence/challange....thats how we get crowds back to itm cup games, field better players

Agreed in principal, BUT, the ABs dominate NZ rugby and for good reason because that is where the $ come from. I would love to see all the guys playing in the shield challenge but the risk of injury and fatigue is too great for the selectors to risk. That's what I think anyway.
Early picks on whether Otago will defend succesfuly?

I think they will!

 

[dasNdanger]

Hi Das,


Your observations are fair, and while I'm not sure which knock on you are reffering to, what I htink you will find is that in particular, at the end of very tight games, refs will be reluctant to award a penalty for trivial stuff like when the ball is not fed in straight to the scrum. Had Waikato been warned about that already? Im not sure, regardless I think refs dont want to effectively end the game on something so small. Might go for the "knock on" too if it was a bit bordeline.

I highly doubt there is any corruption amongst ITM cup refs. Nothing I have watched suggests that anyway...

Thanks much!

And that does make sense. For me it was mostly the scrum feed since they're supposed to be cracking down on the ones that don't go in straight, but I can see how that would be a small thing to end such a game as this on. I appreciate the perspective!


das

 

[ABs2011]

Thanks much!

And that does make sense. For me it was mostly the scrum feed since they're supposed to be cracking down on the ones that don't go in straight, but I can see how that would be a small thing to end such a game as this on. I appreciate the perspective!


das

Yup they were supposed to be cracking down although I noticed a substantial difference between the first and second rounds of the ITM cup and RC in that resepct: Far less crakcing down the second week. On that note, I do like the way the scrums are going...there is a lot of work still to do, but it certainly appeared to benefit the ABs as they dominated the OZs way more than usual in that aspect of the game last week!

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Agreed in principal, BUT, the ABs dominate NZ rugby and for good reason because that is where the $ come from. I would love to see all the guys playing in the shield challenge but the risk of injury and fatigue is too great for the selectors to risk. That's what I think anyway.
Early picks on whether Otago will defend succesfuly?

I think they will!

I'm not holding my breath, ensor has been a very safe pair of hands at the back and has the potential to break a game open, out for six weeks due to a late shoulder charge to pretty rough...i have the horrible feeling guildford is going to open us up

 

[ABs2011]

Round 3 starts tomorrow by the way. First up is Wellington v North Harbour. Tab has Wellington at -24.5
Teams named:
Notable changes for Wellington - Thrush back and captain, Vito rested on the bench & Levave starts at 8, TJ Perenara to start, Ngatai shifts in from 15 to 12 & Treeby benched, Proctor shifts from wing to fullback, Ardie Savea gets a start at 7 & Shields starts at 6.

Wellington: Matt Proctor, Joe Hill, Tim Bateman, Charlie Ngatai, Ambrose Curtis, Lima Sopoaga, TJ Perenara, Faifili Levave, Ardie Savea, Brad Shields, Vaea Fifita, Jeremy Thrush (c), Jeff Toomaga-Allen, Motu Matu'u, Reggie Goodes. Reserves: John Schwalger, Eric Sione, Kaipati Gaualofa, Adam Hill, Victor Vito, Frae Wilson, Shaun Treeby

Harbour have made 11 changes. Saili will start as will captain James Parsons.

North Harbour: James Semple, Jona Tuitoga, Francis Saili, Tua Saseve, Tevita Li, Codey Rei, Bryn Hall, Viliami Fihaki, Nepia Fox Matamua, Irwin Finau, Brandon Nansen, Chris Smith, Ropate Rinikama, James Parsons (c), Alex Woonton. Reserves: Adrian Smith, Greg Pleasants, Malakai Ravulo, Scott Uren, Luke Hamilton, Jon Elrick, Nafi Tuitavake

Wellington should smoke them. Only question is will they be able to beat the points??? 25+?? Chances are they will so long as the weather is good. I think this Wellington team is a massive contender to win the ITM cup this year. Their team stacks up nicely with lots of fringe ABs but very few starting ones. In particular they have several guys really pushing to get AB positions like Vito, Shields, Thrush, TJ, even Bateman, A Savea, Toomaga-Allen for end of year tour possibilities. Add to that quality players like J Hill, Proctor, Ngatai, Matu'u, Goodes, Schwalger, Treeby, Sopoaga in all likelihood I see this years premiership as a Canterbury Wellington final and I'd give the edge to Wellington!

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

It's definitely a straight shoot out between Wellington and Canterbury. Both teams are loaded with Super Rugby players and fringe All Blacks, though I'd probably give the edge to Canterbury. They have a habit of winning, whilst Wellington have a habit of looking good all season but not being able to win the competition in the end.