[2013 EOYT] Australia

[ABs2011]

Great great aussie backs for me:

Will Genia, Israel Folau and Digby Ioane.

Will Genia is the best halfback around the world, for me. Better than Aaron Smith and Francois Hougaard or Ruan Pienaar. He won Super Rugby and Tri Nations in 2011. Israel Folau was one of the best NRL players and now is one of the best Rugby Union backs.
He demonstrated making tries against British Lions, All Blacks and The Pumas in his first year in Rugby Union. He has 7 tries in 9 games with Wallabies.

And Digby, well he's in France now but Henry Speight is almost as good as him.

Do you think that players like: Adam Ashley-Cooper, Christian Leali'ifano, Quade Cooper, Nic White, Kurtley Beale, Joe Tomane, Matt Toomua, or even James O'Connor (out) they aren't a good backline? Without being the best backline in the world, they are better than almost all the backlines of the NH.

Cheers

Yeah for me the only guy out of the three that you name that could make a case for standing along side the likes of Dan Carter, Jean de Villiers, Conrad Smith, Ben Smith, and Brian Habana is Genia but he is so out of form these days he got dropped by the Ozzies, so I'm just not sure even Genia can be called great now. Maybe it's a language thing bro but I think you are chucking the word "great" out there a bit too flippantly.

I rate Folau as an attacking player but he has a lot to learn, his D is wobbly, and he goes missing in games.

I'm not even sure why we are talking about Digby cause he is not an option. Speight is an OK winger his D and positional play is a massive issue and he will get found out big time at the top level if he doesn't improve.

I guess it's all relative, when you ask me if the OZ's are a good backline I compare them 1) to OZ backlines of the past and 2) the current AB team. In both comparisons they do not stand up.
1) where are the Gregans, the Larkhams, the Mortlocks, the Campeses of this current OZ back line? They simply do not have the quality players of years gone by!
2) Ask your self how many (if any) of the current OZ backline would make the AB starting line up, or even the AB squad at large? At this very moment there would not be a single one that would push for a starting spot. Genia in his best form would push for a spot, Folau would be a good prospect - the rest, I don't think, would even make the squad!

OZ have problems bro! It's not just the front row and scrum they need to make gains all over the park to be competitive like they once were!

Check out the scores this year vs NZ and SA
47 - 29 AB win
27 - 16 AB win
38 - 12 SA win
28 - 8 SA win

What is more disconcerting than the score lines is that there was not one game that they even looked like winning. I have not seen an OZ team for a while that has been that uncompetitive.

 

[profitius]

I'm not an expert on the Aussie backs but it looks to me like they lack the class they had before so they're picking hard running athletes instead. They do have talented backs like Cooper on his day, Genia, and Folau but the rest don't seem to have the class aside form the missing JOC and Beale..

 

[ABs2011]

I'm not an expert on the Aussie backs but it looks to me like they lack the class they had before so they're picking hard running athletes instead.

Summed it up nicely! Some of the guys they have in there now are pretty rubbish as well. They just don't have the talent over there at the moment.

 

[Chikwa]

Hi Chikwa, I'm not sure if that post was directed at me? If so, apologies if you took offense to anything I said. I stand by my original posts though; The ozzies are in trouble right across the park and through to the back room. Conrad seems to rate them, I can not understand why as it is clear to me the OZ team are the worst they have been for some time.

As for Speight, I'm not sure where all they Hype comes from. I watched him for several years playing in the NZ ITM cup, he was OK but hardly pushed for a Super Rugby contract. His shift to OZ has been a good one for him as he got him self a starting spot and has played well by all accounts. In saying that, he is hardly a world class winger, certainly no Habana, Smith, Savvea, Jane, Williams....the list goes on....His success in part, IMHO, is a product of how weak the Ozzies are at the moment. He will likely start for the OZ team when he becomes eligible, but he won't make much difference.

That post was a response to "Conrad Smith" Hopefully we can all continue to enjoy our passion for this wonderful sport without resorting to demeaning language.And hopefully not instructing our respective counsels to institute legal proceedings for defamation of character. just joking! Any way Conrad is a lawyer!

 

[ABs2011]

That post was a response to "Conrad Smith" Hopefully we can all continue to enjoy our passion for this wonderful sport without resorting to demeaning language.And hopefully not instructing our respective counsels to institute legal proceedings for defamation of character. just joking! Any way Conrad is a lawyer!

OK cool, I was a bit confused because I couldn't see anything rude that he said??

 

[nickdnz]

I think if you look at Australia's backline - then man for man they are pretty decent. But they're really just not playing clever rugby so that doesn't really seem to matter. In Super Rugby I rated Mogg the best best fullback besides Ben Smith. He had a torrid time in the Rugby Championship, both because he was playing a terrible kicking based game plan and he just looked unable to step up. Same can be said for most of the Australia's backline. So are the a great backline? Well, not an amazingly coached one and not one performing to their potential (maybe last game was a bit closer).

I don't rate Kuridrani particularly highly individually. He's a pretty hard running centre, but he isn't at all creative, skillful and he doesn't break the line that much.

Speight I think will be very when he is selected - I don't think there was a more dangerous winger ball in hand in SR this year.

 

[Jaguares]

Yeah for me the only guy out of the three that you name that could make a case for standing along side the likes of Dan Carter, Jean de Villiers, Conrad Smith, Ben Smith, and Brian Habana is Genia but he is so out of form these days he got dropped by the Ozzies, so I'm just not sure even Genia can be called great now. Maybe it's a language thing bro but I think you are chucking the word "great" out there a bit too flippantly.

I rate Folau as an attacking player but he has a lot to learn, his D is wobbly, and he goes missing in games.

I'm not even sure why we are talking about Digby cause he is not an option. Speight is an OK winger his D and positional play is a massive issue and he will get found out big time at the top level if he doesn't improve.

I guess it's all relative, when you ask me if the OZ's are a good backline I compare them 1) to OZ backlines of the past and 2) the current AB team. In both comparisons they do not stand up.
1) where are the Gregans, the Larkhams, the Mortlocks, the Campeses of this current OZ back line? They simply do not have the quality players of years gone by!
2) Ask your self how many (if any) of the current OZ backline would make the AB starting line up, or even the AB squad at large? At this very moment there would not be a single one that would push for a starting spot. Genia in his best form would push for a spot, Folau would be a good prospect - the rest, I don't think, would even make the squad!

OZ have problems bro! It's not just the front row and scrum they need to make gains all over the park to be competitive like they once were!

Check out the scores this year vs NZ and SA
47 - 29 AB win
27 - 16 AB win
38 - 12 SA win
28 - 8 SA win

What is more disconcerting than the score lines is that there was not one game that they even looked like winning. I have not seen an OZ team for a while that has been that uncompetitive.

You are greatly exaggerated!

In 2011, Wallabies won the Tri Nations. They beat ABs once and they defeated Boks twice, including a victory in Durban. In the same year, they eliminated Boks of RWC and last year they beat Boks in Perth.

With this team they won the Tri Nations 2011:

15 Kurtley Beale - Injured but has a contract with ARU
14 James O'Connor - OUT (No contract with ARU)
13 Adam Ashley-Cooper - IN
12 Pat McCabe - Injured but has a contract with ARU
11 Digby Ioane - OUT (France)
10 Quade Cooper - IN
9 Will Genia - IN
8 Ben McCalman - IN
7 David Pocock - Injured but has a contract with ARU
6 Rocky Elsom - Retired
5 James Horwill - IN
4 Rob Simmons - IN
3 Ben Alexander - IN
2 Stephen Moore - IN
1 Sekope Kepu - IN

Even they have others good players like: Scott Higginbotham, Michael Hooper, Wycliff Palu, Ben Mowen, Scott Fardy, Nic White, Matt Toomua, Christian Leali'ifano, Sitaleki Timani, Henry Speight and Joe Tomane.

They have the potential to be world champions again.

Cheers

Speight I think will be very when he is selected - I don't think there was a more dangerous winger ball in hand in SR this year.

I don't say that Henry Speight is the best player around the planet but with the absence of Digby Ioane and James O'Connor, is a qualitative leap for Wallabies. He's much better than Tomane, Nick Cummins and even Adam Ashley-Cooper playing at wing.

Cheers

 

[ABs2011]

You are greatly exaggerated!

In 2011, Wallabies won the Tri Nations.

Sigh....It is so difficult having a discussion with you about rugby because you are all over the place.

Can you tell me please where on earth you believe I "greatly exaggerated" anything?

First and foremost what I am saying is that I disagree with you when you say that OZ the "Wallabies problems aren't their backline" and they have "great backs" - This is simply NOT true for reasons I have outlined.

Regarding the current team in general, they are arguably the worst OZ team for several years, surely the fact that you have to dig up results from 2011 to defend the current team that got smashed off the park four games in a row by both NZ and SA should tell you something shouldn't it? OZ have regressed significantly. I'm not sure how you don't see that. Can you tell me honestly for how long you have watched/supported the OZ team? I suspect it might not be that long?

The simple fact is they don't have the quality players they once had (particularly in the backs).

The only point you make which I think is reasonable is where you point out their injury concerns. They would be a better team IF they were injury free. In saying that, that is the reality of Rugby. Teams will always have injury problems, the good ones can cope, the lesser teams will struggle....

 

[Jaguares]

Sigh....It is so difficult having a discussion with you about rugby because you are all over the place.

Can you tell me please where on earth you believe I "greatly exaggerated" anything?

First and foremost what I am saying is that I disagree with you when you say that OZ the "Wallabies problems aren't their backline" and they have "great backs" - This is simply NOT true for reasons I have outlined.

Regarding the current team in general, they are arguably the worst OZ team for several years, surely the fact that you have to dig up results from 2011 to defend the current team that got smashed off the park four games in a row by both NZ and SA should tell you something shouldn't it? OZ have regressed significantly. I'm not sure how you don't see that. Can you tell me honestly for how long you have watched/supported the OZ team? I suspect it might not be that long?

The simple fact is they don't have the quality players they once had (particularly in the backs).

The only point you make which I think is reasonable is where you point out their injury concerns. They would be a better team IF they were injury free. In saying that, that is the reality of Rugby. Teams will always have injury problems, the good ones can cope, the lesser teams will struggle....

The first Wallabies team I saw was the Wallabies of 1999 with John Eales, Stephen Larkham, George Gregan, Tim Horan, Joe Roff, Matthew Burke, Michael Foley, Toutai Kefu and others.

I agree with you, they had better teams and this, no doubt, not the best. But to say that they are a: "Disaster" is exaggerated.

They have so much potential, and 2011, are just 2 years ago. The 2011 team has a lot to do with the current team.

Cheers

 

[ABs2011]

The first Wallabies team I saw was the Wallabies of 1999 with John Eales, Stephen Larkham, George Gregan, Tim Horan, Joe Roff, Matthew Burke, Michael Foley, Toutai Kefu and others.

I agree with you, they had better teams and this, no doubt, not the best. But to say that they are a: "Disaster" is exaggerated.

They have so much potential, and 2011, are just 2 years ago. The 2011 team has a lot to do with the current team.

Cheers

Where did I say they were a disaster? Can't find that bit...

Re the players you name, and adding to that the likes of David Campese, Michael Lynagh, Mortlock, you can see what I am getting at. There is not a single player in the current OZ backline that comes close to the quality of players they have had in there in the past.

Look I agree that this team has some potential, but they have been getting worse not better, they have been getting whipped up by their major competition, they have been losing ground on NZ and SA each year, they are now in a position where I don't believe they are even competitive with NZ or SA.

Using the 2011 results is fine, I see where you are coming from, but I think you are better to look to the present to get a gauge on where they are at.

My main problem though, I have with your original post is you make out like the Ozzies only issue is their front row and scrum. That is simply not true and you are kidding yourself if you think a front row would fix all their problems. Their problems run from 1 through 22 and then off the field as well; coaching, management, finances....While I don't believe I said they were a disaster...I will say it now - they are a disaster

 

[.me]

Update on the situation:

It is IRB regulation 8.1(c) that is the sticking point for Speight.
He must complete 36 consecutive months of Australian residence, which is defined as ''the place or location in which the player has his primary and permanent home''.
IRB guidelines go on to state ''at least 10 months' actual physical presence of the player in the country concerned throughout any qualifying year of the residency period, will be required''.
Speight joined the Brumbies in November 2010, which means he should be almost eligible.
He made his debut for the Brumbies during the 2011 Super Rugby season, but then joined Waikato for a stint in the ITM Cup, which ran from July 15 to September 3.
That time in New Zealand means Speight may have spent less than 10 months in Australia during that 12-month period.
The IRB was still looking into the matter.
''In relation to this, no ruling has yet been made in relation to Henry Speight's eligibility to play for Australia,'' IRB spokesman James Fitzgerald said. ''We have received an application in that regard.
''In accordance with the regulations, a three-person committee will be set up to consider the application. As this is an ongoing process, I can make no further comment.''

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...allaby-wait-20131017-2vq1d.html#ixzz2i2tC5dD9

So either end of this November (but McKenzie won't pick him for one game) or September next year. So earliest is France 2014 mid year Tests and latest is mid/late/after the 2014 Rugby Championships.

 

[Jaguares]

Where did I say they were a disaster? Can't find that bit...

Re the players you name, and adding to that the likes of David Campese, Michael Lynagh, Mortlock, you can see what I am getting at. There is not a single player in the current OZ backline that comes close to the quality of players they have had in there in the past.

Look I agree that this team has some potential, but they have been getting worse not better, they have been getting whipped up by their major competition, they have been losing ground on NZ and SA each year, they are now in a position where I don't believe they are even competitive with NZ or SA.

Using the 2011 results is fine, I see where you are coming from, but I think you are better to look to the present to get a gauge on where they are at.

My main problem though, I have with your original post is you make out like the Ozzies only issue is their front row and scrum. That is simply not true and you are kidding yourself if you think a front row would fix all their problems. Their problems run from 1 through 22 and then off the field as well; coaching, management, finances....While I don't believe I said they were a disaster...I will say it now - they are a disaster

Did you see the 2 last Wallabies games? Against The Pumas in Rosario and against ABs in Dunedin??? They have improved a lot! Tonight did a great game against ABs in Dunedin. Without David Pocock, Scott Higginbotham, Wycliff Palu, Christian Leali'ifano, Henry Speight, Joe Tomane, Kurtley Beale and James O'Connor.


No doubt, Australia isn't the same at the beginning of the Rugby Championship 2013, we must also take into consideration that McKenzie only runs from the last Rugby Championship, with a couple of games over, he's already improving.

Beware of Wallabies! They have the potential.

Cheers

 

[Big Ewis]

So Australia is facing............all 6N sides but France this Autumn...godamn.......godamn.

Just finished watching Bledisloe 3, wow, nothing like what we saw throughout TRC...perhaps that last match in Argentina really was an indication of much better form, to be continued...
3 tries and 31 points on NZ in NZ. Despite obvious flaws (scrum, mainly) and a not-nearly-healthy roster.

Can you imagine if the Wallabies go 5 out of 5 in Europe ?!....probably not gonna happen. If they just had the scrum...they should suffer tremendously because of the scrum against England, Italy and Wales.
England is a bit of a question mark, but I'm guessing they'll reaaaaally want to right things about their defeat from last year's tour badly, and they're at home..
and Wales really should win this: they're at home, they'll crush them in the scrum, and they've even got the backs and big ball carriers to respond to the Wallabies' very strength.

 

[Jaguares]

I'm hearing rumours that Scott Higginbotham has been declared fit and there is a possibility he may join the Australian squad for their spring tour. David Pocock is next followed by the Debut of Henry Speight...

Can you imagine if the Wallabies go 5 out of 5 in Europe ?!....probably not gonna happen.

I think they can achieve 5/5, now they aren't the same team of early Rugby Championship

Wales really should win this: they're at home, they'll crush them in the scrum

People said that Pumas scrum would destroy the Wallabies scrum in Rosario, as they had destroyed the ABs scrum, however that didn't happen and Aussies have contained the great Pumas scrum. If they repeat the performance made ​​in Rosario, they may contain the Welsh scrum.

Cheers

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

here just a question since i looked at the wallabies autumn test squad what happened to james o'connor ?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

here just a question since i looked at the wallabies autumn test squad what happened to james o'connor ?

ARU have sacked him until he sorts out his behaviour. He was stopped from boarding a plane to Bali after the Wallabies played the Pumas in Perth; supposedly he was too drunk.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

ARU have sacked him until he sorts out his behaviour. He was stopped from boarding a plane to Bali after the Wallabies played the Pumas in Perth; supposedly he was too drunk.

suppose thats fair enough wish the wru did the same with gavin henson

 

[Patchey]

The WRU did, they stoped picking him.

 

[Draggs]

The WRU did, they stoped picking him.

Only once Howley took over. There is scarcely a time that we haven't selected him in a squad when fit under Gatland.

 

[ABs2011]

Did you see the 2 last Wallabies games? Against The Pumas in Rosario and against ABs in Dunedin??? They have improved a lot! Tonight did a great game against ABs in Dunedin. Without David Pocock, Scott Higginbotham, Wycliff Palu, Christian Leali'ifano, Henry Speight, Joe Tomane, Kurtley Beale and James O'Connor.


No doubt, Australia isn't the same at the beginning of the Rugby Championship 2013, we must also take into consideration that McKenzie only runs from the last Rugby Championship, with a couple of games over, he's already improving.

Beware of Wallabies! They have the potential.

Cheers

Wouldn't put too much weight on the Argy game. They certainly showed signs of improvement v NZ in Dunedin BUT they NEVER looked like winning (not even close IMO). Cooper had his best game in a gold jersey for some time though which was great, glad he looks like he is getting back to where he was!

At the end of the day you and I will just have to agree to disagree here mate. I don't think the ozzies are much chop at all. They have gotten blitzed by both SA and NZ 5 games to zip this year. Their player base is looking weak, they don't have any real quality players in the backs and only a couple in the forwards, their backroom situation is a complete mess, and all those things combined have led to a rubbish record against the worlds best.

I hope they go well on the EoY tour, they may even come away with a good record, BUT the benchmark is NZ and SA so we might just have to wait until this time next year to see where the Ozzies are at!