[2013 Bledisloe Cup] New Zealand v Australia in Dunedin (19/10/2013)

[Bada-Bing!]

Why haven't the Wallabies selected Luke Morahan in their squad? Is he injured? He scored such a fantastic try v the Lions.

 

[Larksea]

Pretty upset piutau isnt starting, let alone on the bench. He deserves a start over thrush thats for sure. Dont see how leaving jane out of the team this week and giving him a good crack on the eoyt would have hurt anyone. Unlucky for luatua but hel get alot more soon. Lastly francis saili should be on bench over taylor, really want to see him have a crack against the kangaroo riders

I actually agree, Jane is a great player but Piutau I think deserves a start, been a part of the squad all year and done good things off the bench, very accurate and dangerous with the ball. He should get a start against Japan and maybe another test on tour.

 

[Larksea]

Yeah is hore retired, whats the story there? If so that was a pretty subtle exit from nz rugby for such a prolific character

I get the feeling he doesn't want to retire but he is unwanted by the highlanders and has not picked up a contract anywhere else for next season. As far as the All Blacks go I think hes been told his role in the squad is to work with and train the young hookers. And for all the main training camps in NZ they have brought in extra hookers to work with the All Blacks. Hansen keeps preparing the NZ public for either or both Hore and Mealamu being dropped.

It doesn't look good for Hore.

On the field is another story though, Hore is still an absolute menace at Rucks and Mauls, cunning as a bildge rat and hes still fit as a fiddle. I mean he starts and comes off at the 60min mark but looks fresh. I think at this stage of his carrier he is a better hooker than Mealamu.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Hasn't Hansen gone on record to say Hore will retire this year or next year but he doesn't figure in his plans for the next WC? I think I read it on the Stuff website. He'll be 37 come 2015; only a year older than Brad Thorn was at the last WC. I still say if he's good enough he's young enough.. He's only got to play half a game anyway before being replaced.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Hasn't Hansen gone on record to say Hore will retire this year or next year but he doesn't figure in his plans for the next WC? I think I read it on the Stuff website. He'll be 37 come 2015; only a year older than Brad Thorn was at the last WC. I still say if he's good enough he's young enough.. He's only got to play half a game anyway before being replaced.

I agree with this. If he stays as good as he is now then I can't see a reason for not picking him regardless of his age. He is still miles better than Coles, who hasn't improved all that much and will never be as effective at the breakdown as Hore.

 

[big ginger 8]

Interesting video. Question is will the Wallabies be smart enough to exploit it or will they do the typical drifting aimless attack?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/1POtXL8yINU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Draggs]

Yes, if the Ocker off GaGR can find something, I am almost certain people who are paid to do this can.
The biggest question if if the Crims have the talent to exploit it? No, I say. Betham is good IF you can get the ball in his hands and give him room to accelerate. Likewise, AAC moves well but doesn't have top end gas (although he is quicker than he looks). Kuridrani is a decent centre, but Toomua doesn't have much experience in midfield. I am not sure if they'll be able to hold their lines in attack and avoid the temptation to drift outwards. Kuridrani is a massive lad, so I'd expect him to try to go himself at first. The Crims don't have a winger than can use space effectively. Tomane was improving, but still more of a head down arse up run for the line wing from what I have seen. Their best wing options are gone, O'Connor and Mitchell. Watch them in 2010, very talented players, both could kick and catch and knew their way to the tryline and not just by blasting down the tramlines.

 

[ABs2011]

As I said earlier, it looks like thoughts that he was going to shut up shop after the RC were ill-founded. It appears that the three hookers on the EOYT will simply be Coles, Mealamu and Hore now.

What's the deal with this? I'm behind the play it seems. For some reason I thought he had confirmed his retirement, is that not the case?

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

What's the deal with this? I'm behind the play it seems. For some reason I thought he had confirmed his retirement, is that not the case?

I don't think anything was ever confirmed, it was all just speculation (due to his lack of a Super Rugby team etc.).

This article very much implies that he will be hanging round for a bit longer: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11141218

Andrew Hore will be picked for the All Blacks' end-of-year tour.The experienced hooker has started six of the nine tests this season but, at 35, he is in sight of his international rugby finishing line.
His name is missing from the team sheet for the last domestic test against the Wallabies with Keven Mealamu to start and Dane Coles on the bench.
While Otago rugby supporters might lament Hore's absence, it is not a pointer to him riding off into the Central Otago sunset just yet. He flew in a helicopter yesterday to Balclutha on an All Black promotional visit and in another 10 days will leave on his final tour of duty.
The national panel picked Coles this year as the backup hooker to Hore and the even more experienced Keven Mealamu, and have used Coles whenever they could.
They have been on the lookout for another promising hooker and hoped they would settle on one to take on the tour to Japan, France, England and Ireland next month.
A number have been assessed and Liam Coltman, Rhys Marshall and Nathan Harris have worked alongside the All Blacks in their training camps.

They are all promising but not close enough to the standards the All Black selectors want. The selectors think all will develop more if they bulk up in the off-season and then display their credentials in the next Super 15 series.
So with a little persuasion and family encouragement, Hore is ready to set off on another trip with Mealamu and Coles.
This will be Hore's last All Black trip because he has not been picked by the Highlanders next season nor is he interested under that coaching regime, and he does not appear to be searching for an alternative Super 15 job.

In other news, McCaw and Jane are under injury clouds: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/9299329/McCaw-Jane-in-doubt-for-Wallabies-test

Information will be consolidated after today's training run.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Interesting video. Question is will the Wallabies be smart enough to exploit it or will they do the typical drifting aimless attack?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/1POtXL8yINU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Any team that drifts on defence (which is most) is susceptible to what the guy is saying. You have to trust the guy inside you, and that guy has to get there. Most often this gets exploited when a tight 5 member is stuck defending somewhere in the backline and can't cover the gap. I think Vermuelan went past Faumu'ina for that SA try.

 

[Larksea]

I personally don't see the point in taking Hore on tour if he is set to retire. The EoY tour is generally seen as a development tour. I think it would be more beneficial to take Coltman or Elliot on tour.

thats a whole other thread though.

Interesting to see Question marks over McCaw and Jane. Cane and Piutau to start and Luatua on the bench is still a very strong side that should beat the Aussies

AB's will want a very strong side though. The Aussies have a bit of momentum and nothing to lose.

UPDATE: McCaw and Jane have been ruled out of the test.

"McCaw has been ruled out with a tight calf muscle, while Jane has withdrawn with a hamstring injury."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/9299329/McCaw-Jane-ruled-out-for-Wallabies-test

 

[ABs2011]

Looks like the Piutau supporters (me included) have gotten their wish! Yeah, can't wait to see him running on a dry track, goanna be electric!

 

[Darwin]

Yes, if the Ocker off GaGR can find something, I am almost certain people who are paid to do this can.
The biggest question if if the Crims have the talent to exploit it? No, I say. Betham is good IF you can get the ball in his hands and give him room to accelerate. Likewise, AAC moves well but doesn't have top end gas (although he is quicker than he looks). Kuridrani is a decent centre, but Toomua doesn't have much experience in midfield. I am not sure if they'll be able to hold their lines in attack and avoid the temptation to drift outwards. Kuridrani is a massive lad, so I'd expect him to try to go himself at first. The Crims don't have a winger than can use space effectively. Tomane was improving, but still more of a head down arse up run for the line wing from what I have seen. Their best wing options are gone, O'Connor and Mitchell. Watch them in 2010, very talented players, both could kick and catch and knew their way to the tryline and not just by blasting down the tramlines.

Exactly. The fact is the AB's have been using almost an identical narrow defense system since Graham Henry took over as coach in 2004! It is not a great revelation that the AB's use a very narrow defense - I'm sure opposition teams would have worked that out about 10 years ago. As you say though, you need to have the personal to be able to exploit it. Any team that have Quade Cooper at 10 is going to struggle to take advantage of a narrow defense. To exploit a narrow defense you need players running straight with quick passes - Cooper does neither of these. When gets the ball he invariable runs sideways before deciding what to do - this can certainly put the inside defenders in two minds, and can help create holes in the midfield, but is of no use if you want to exploit space outwide. South Africa were able to exploit the AB's outwide with a much more simple 'catch and pass' style - unfortunately (for Australia) that is not a style they like to play.....

Wallabies team named:
1. James Slipper
2. Stephen Moore
3. Ben Alexander
4. Rob Simmons
5. James Horwill (c)
6. Ben Mowen
7. Michael Hooper
8. Ben McCalman
9. Will Genia
10. Quade Cooper
11. Peter Betham
12. Matt Toomua
13. Tevita Kuridrani
14. Adam Ashley-Cooper
15. Israel Folau
Replacements
16. Saia Fainga'a
17. Benn Robinson
18. Sekope Kepu
19. Sitaleki Timani
20. Dave Dennis
21. Nic White
22. Mike Harris
23. Bernard Foley

Betham makes his debut and you'd assume cooper to kick. not expecting to win, hopefully we at least make it entertaining to watch for wallaby fans

Certainly not the most scary team on paper - I just hope the AB's son't underestimate them. It will be interesting to see how Toomua goes defending at 12 - he is a strong tackler, but he is not used to the defensive duties in this position.

Yeah I heard that. Obviously Ewen McKenzie has graduated from the Alistair Campbell University of Spin Doctoring.

Sure, Quade might make 80% of his tackles.... when the ball carrier doesn't blast right past him without Quade getting a hand on him!!!

ETA: His tackle stats from the RC make interesting reading

AUS v NZL 0/0
NZL v AUS 2/0
AUS v SAF 9/1
AUS v ARG 5/0
SAF v AUS 17/1
ARG v AUS 7/1

40 tackles, 3 missed, 93%

If that pushed him up to 84%, I dread to think what his tackle rate must have been like beforehand.

I'm glad you included those tackles stats Smartcooky. Though many New Zealander's probably think Quade Cooper's tackling is a bit of a joke, if people had watched him closely this season they would actually see he has made some big improvements in his defense. He spent the season with the Reds defending in the front line (rather than hidden on the wing/at fullback as in previous seasons), and was generally pretty reliable on defense, while he has been very strong defensively in the Rugby Championship. Cooper has always been a solid defender when he actually chooses to be - unfortunately (for the Wallabies/Reds) that was usually pretty rare. He is actually a big strong player for a first-five so there is no reason why he can't make his tackles. His biggest problem in the past is he has shown no interest in actually tackling - instead he would normally just put his hand out towards a player and hope it would slow them enough until his supporting tacklers arrive (occasionally he wouldn't even bother with that and simply use his trademark defensive sidestep). He is certainly no Dan Carter on defense, and I'm sure Nonu et al. will still enjoy running at him, but I don't expect him to be the turnstile he has been in previous seasons.

EDIT: While it is disappointing for Jane that he has been ruled out, I (like many others) am happy to see Piutau get his chance!

 

[admartian]

Sucks for Jane As I was hoping to see him again.

Hope he gets to play against Japan and the EOYT.

 

[steblin]

Looks like the Piutau supporters (me included) have gotten their wish! Yeah, can't wait to see him running on a dry track, goanna be electric!

Really looking forward to seeing him get some good game time, great opportunity.

Real shame for Jane, but everyone knows coming back from major knee injuries little tweaks and pulls are going to happen the first few months trying to get back to full fitness, thought it was bold to throw him straight back in with the start...

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

really unfortunate for jane but im sure Piutau will play a good match

 

[Chikwa]

Sucks for Jane As I was hoping to see him again.

Hope he gets to play against Japan and the EOYT.

Very disappointed Richie is not playing he takes the team to another level.Sam cane is brave, a improved defender but is poor at the breakdown. I was expecting cory Jane to be electric,hopefully he'll be back soon. will piatau live up to the expectations of his fan club and convert me into one of them?I certainly hope so.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Our defense could get exploited when they attack whatever side Piutau is defending on. Between him and Ben Smith they don't seem like big communicators, and don't have any experience defending those positions in international footy. You'd have to think the aussies will target that side with Folau running in those channels.

 

[Jaguares]

I personally don't see the point in taking Hore on tour if he is set to retire. The EoY tour is generally seen as a development tour. I think it would be more beneficial to take Coltman or Elliot on tour.

thats a whole other thread though.

Interesting to see Question marks over McCaw and Jane. Cane and Piutau to start and Luatua on the bench is still a very strong side that should beat the Aussies

AB's will want a very strong side though. The Aussies have a bit of momentum and nothing to lose.

UPDATE: McCaw and Jane have been ruled out of the test.

"McCaw has been ruled out with a tight calf muscle, while Jane has withdrawn with a hamstring injury."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/9299329/McCaw-Jane-ruled-out-for-Wallabies-test

OMG! I wanted to see Cory Jane with the black shirt, has been so long. I'll have to keep waiting...

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Let's not get carried away with Ben Smith, he needs to be as good as he has been this year for the next 5-6 years before you start lumping him in with DC.

he has been...just in a blue jersey rather than a black one