A Political Thread

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Corbyn is such an idiot at times

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-corbyn-says-britain-should-7193638#ICID=sharebar_twitter

Why why why say that?

 

[g6mcg]

Possibly because of his plans to build submarines without warheads.

 

[Deleted member 53362]

Blokes a clown, bye bye Labour nice knowing you

 

[j'nuh]

tbf, Falklands seem to be more complex than Britons consider to be the case.

I agree with Corbyn on the issue that self-determination cannot be the full picture. For example, I can't think that it's right that a nation can take forceful ownership of land, settle its own people, then claim that we should respect the citizens' self-determination. This is what's happened with the Falklands, the only issue is that there are 180 years worth of settlement of Britons on the island to consider. It leads to the question of what is more important - the desires of the population who arguably shouldn't be there in the first place, or the legitimacy of ownership of the islands, meaning re-visiting the events of the 1830s? I don't know to be honest.

Talking about the issue can't hurt. Opening dialogue would be for the best. If our claim is strong, there is little to worry about.

That being said, this is gonna go down like a ton of bricks with the public. Corbyn needs to pick his battles a bit better.

 

[Deleted member 53362]

tbf, Falklands seem to be more complex than Britons consider to be the case.

I agree with Corbyn on the issue that self-determination cannot be the full picture. For example, I can't think that it's right that a nation can take forceful ownership of land, settle its own people, then claim that we should respect the citizens' self-determination. This is what's happened with the Falklands, the only issue is that there are 180 years worth of settlement of Britons on the island to consider. It leads to the question of what is more important - the desires of the population who arguably shouldn't be there in the first place, or the legitimacy of ownership of the islands, meaning re-visiting the events of the 1830s? I don't know to be honest.

Talking about the issue can't hurt. Opening dialogue would be for the best. If our claim is strong, there is little to worry about.

That being said, this is gonna go down like a ton of bricks with the public. Corbyn needs to pick his battles a bit better.

Oh right let's just turf all the Americans out of America and the aussies out of Australia and what gives Argentina a claim to the islands? Because its closer? We are closer to Greenland than Denmark shall we take it off them? We landed there and settled there nearly 200.years ago and its only since the 80s the argies have made an issue out of.

Good luck trying to persuade the British public your messiah is right or are you under the illusion like he is that everyone agrees with you.

 

[g6mcg]

Agreed, the battles he's choosing really aren't helping his public perception. I'll be interested to see if his approach changes at all, you'd think it would be fairly easy for him to oppose the Conservatives on issues where he'd have more support from the public.

 

[Tony Manx]

tbf, Falklands seem to be more complex than Britons consider to be the case.

I agree with Corbyn on the issue that self-determination cannot be the full picture. For example, I can't think that it's right that a nation can take forceful ownership of land, settle its own people, then claim that we should respect the citizens' self-determination. This is what's happened with the Falklands, the only issue is that there are 180 years worth of settlement of Britons on the island to consider. It leads to the question of what is more important - the desires of the population who arguably shouldn't be there in the first place, or the legitimacy of ownership of the islands, meaning re-visiting the events of the 1830s? I don't know to be honest.

Talking about the issue can't hurt. Opening dialogue would be for the best. If our claim is strong, there is little to worry about.

That being said, this is gonna go down like a ton of bricks with the public. Corbyn needs to pick his battles a bit better.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands_sovereignty_dispute

On this basis the French and Spanish have more claim than the Argentinians but the Brits have been in charge longer and apparently the first too colonise!

It would be surely cynical to think the Argentinians would be making a claim now has anything to do with home politics or, even worse, oil reserves?? It has to be surely about penguins.....

 

[Deleted member 53362]

They should be worrying about their awful economy and large unemployment not some islands they stupidly invaded 30 years ago. They also need to stop spending what little financial resources they have on obsolete military kit in an attempt to put together a credible threat to the royal navy.

 

[j'nuh]

Oh right let's just turf all the Americans out of America and the aussies out of Australia and what gives Argentina a claim to the islands? Because its closer? We are closer to Greenland than Denmark shall we take it off them? We landed there and settled there nearly 200.years ago and its only since the 80s the argies have made an issue out of.

Good luck trying to persuade the British public your messiah is right or are you under the illusion like he is that everyone agrees with you.

Corbyn has said nothing of the sort, nor have I. Stop creating straw men.

He's suggested some kind of accommodation. Whether that is giving Argentinians the right to settle, some kind of shared territory, opening the borders so that Argentinians can visit, sharing the resources from the island, I'm not sure. I'm not sure Corbyn knows either. The point is sitting down at the table and discussing it.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Corbyn has said nothing of the sort, nor have I. Stop creating straw men.

He's suggested some kind of accommodation. Whether that is giving Argentinians the right to settle, some kind of shared territory, opening the borders so that Argentinians can visit, sharing the resources from the island, I'm not sure. I'm not sure Corbyn knows either. The point is sitting down at the table and discussing it.

Argentinia are the ones at fault for most of those points, they are the ones who have put an embargo on Falklands pretty much.

Argentina should be the ones to make the effort not us.

 

[Deleted member 53362]

Argentinia are the ones at fault for most of those points, they are the ones who have put an embargo on Falklands pretty much.

Argentina should be the ones to make the effort not us.

+1 they should stop whining about it and move on. They tried to capture them and failed and all they bang on about is the sinking of a warship in a war they started.

 

[Tony Manx]

Why should one side who have absolutely nothing to prove it gain sit down with another who have no evidential backing for the wild claims they make??

Like the Britain reclaiming USA and insisting on talks to discuss!!

 

[j'nuh]

Is a total blanket on communication over the islands worth the potential escalation and loss of life it can lead to? I don't think it will ever end up in full-scale war, but we want to avoid further skirmishes. And the best way of doing that is sitting down and talking it out.

Potentially small concessions, such as allowing settlement, or giving fishing rights to Argentinians, could stave off another escalation. If so, I think it will be worth it.

Our diplomacy shouldn't be based on stubbornness...

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Is a total blanket on communication over the islands worth the potential escalation and loss of life it can lead to? I don't think it will ever end up in full-scale war, but we want to avoid further skirmishes. And the best way of doing that is sitting down and talking it out.

Potentially small concessions, such as allowing settlement, or giving fishing rights to Argentinians, could stave off another escalation. If so, I think it will be worth it.

Our diplomacy shouldn't be based on stubbornness...

What?

Pathetic attitude to take.

Guess you supported Russia in the Ukraine situation.

Argentina have made clear plenty of time they want the full lot.

 

[Deleted member 53362]

Is a total blanket on communication over the islands worth the potential escalation and loss of life it can lead to? I don't think it will ever end up in full-scale war, but we want to avoid further skirmishes. And the best way of doing that is sitting down and talking it out.

Potentially small concessions, such as allowing settlement, or giving fishing rights to Argentinians, could stave off another escalation. If so, I think it will be worth it.

Our diplomacy shouldn't be based on stubbornness...

It won't escalate because Argentina doesn't have the capacity to escalate it and what's Argentina's diplomacy based on? Stubbornness and a bogus claim to a set of islands they have not been interested in until recent times.

 

[Tony Manx]

Is a total blanket on communication over the islands worth the potential escalation and loss of life it can lead to? I don't think it will ever end up in full-scale war, but we want to avoid further skirmishes. And the best way of doing that is sitting down and talking it out.

Potentially small concessions, such as allowing settlement, or giving fishing rights to Argentinians, could stave off another escalation. If so, I think it will be worth it.

Our diplomacy shouldn't be based on stubbornness...

That is called appeasement or "anything for an easy life"!!!

 

[Deleted member 53362]

That is called appeasement or "anything for an easy life"!!!

Yet we will be appeasing an aggressive nation who hasn't the military or political means to threaten us in any way shape or form. Like giving to gobby little kid at school your dinner money just to shut him up.

 

[j'nuh]

What?

Pathetic attitude to take.

Guess you supported Russia in the Ukraine situation.

Argentina have made clear plenty of time they want the full lot.

Crimea overwhelmingly voted to join Russia in a referendum. The referendum itself was incredibly dubious, but polls going back to 2009 seem to suggest that the same outcome would have been reached. Likewise, polls from countries outside Ukraine/Russia (e.g. USA, Germany) since the referendum seem to support the decision reached during the referendum. If we are to apply the same standards set of the Falklands, that self-determination is all that matters, then by all means, Crimea should be Russian.

That being said, no, I don't agree with the situation in Crimea, precisely because I don't believe self-determination is the full picture.

 

[Deleted member 53362]

Crimea overwhelmingly voted to join Russia in a referendum. The referendum itself was incredibly dubious, but polls going back to 2009 seem to suggest that the same outcome would have been reached. Likewise, polls from countries outside Ukraine/Russia (e.g. USA, Germany) since the referendum seem to support the decision reached during the referendum. If we are to apply the same standards set of the Falklands, that self-determination is all that matters, then by all means, Crimea should be Russian.

That being said, no, I don't agree with the situation in Crimea, precisely because I don't believe self-determination is the full picture.

The situation is entirely different. The Crimea was part of modern Ukraine. At no point have the Falklands been part of modern Argentina, so I ask again: What claim do they believe they have?

 

[Peat]

Is a total blanket on communication over the islands worth the potential escalation and loss of life it can lead to? I don't think it will ever end up in full-scale war, but we want to avoid further skirmishes. And the best way of doing that is sitting down and talking it out.

Potentially small concessions, such as allowing settlement, or giving fishing rights to Argentinians, could stave off another escalation. If so, I think it will be worth it.

Our diplomacy shouldn't be based on stubbornness...

Encouraging the Argentines to think we're not too bothered about what happens to the Falklands could very well spark such an escalation; they are far more likely to resort to violent means if they don't think they'll be properly opposed.

It's dumb as all hell for the Falklands to be British but they are and I don't see what there is to talk about. If Argentina want to talk to change that, then it's up to them to try and win over the islanders peacefully.