[2015 RWC] Pool A: England vs. Fiji (18/09/2015)

[TobesHodges]

The only thing ford doesn't do is press the hit on someone, but there are few fly halves that do, Trinh Duc, Farrell, Pollard do it, aggressive defence fly halves, it's not a necessary trait, Fords a good tackler..

 

[valley commando]

How am I wrong? Please enlighten me. What Fiji will excel at is individual brilliance. We have better units and will have better set plays, and a better tactical game.

For me Fiji backs have always had that spark that we used to see from France and occasionally Wales off the cuff instinctive attack in broken play. I may be wrong but this is probably the longest time Fiji have had together as a squad in my memory, which can only be a good thing. The way they will hopefully play will get the game I love more followers, if kids see them throwing the ball around and scoring tries it will do more for the game than watching scrum after scrum and penalty after penalty.

 

[j'nuh]

For me Fiji backs have always had that spark that we used to see from France and occasionally Wales off the cuff instinctive attack in broken play. I may be wrong but this is probably the longest time Fiji have had together as a squad in my memory, which can only be a good thing. The way they will hopefully play will get the game I love more followers, if kids see them throwing the ball around and scoring tries it will do more for the game than watching scrum after scrum and penalty after penalty.

Being entertaining is not the same as being good.

 

[chippieolamus]

For me Fiji backs have always had that spark that we used to see from France and occasionally Wales off the cuff instinctive attack in broken play. I may be wrong but this is probably the longest time Fiji have had together as a squad in my memory, which can only be a good thing. The way they will hopefully play will get the game I love more followers, if kids see them throwing the ball around and scoring tries it will do more for the game than watching scrum after scrum and penalty after penalty.

Sure, and that all good, but you haven't answered the question. England have trained together for extended periods 3 times a year for the past 3-4 years, Fiji very rarely have that amount of time together. Therefore, England's backs should be better organised and more cohesive. You've literally said that they are likely to play more as individuals.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

For me Fiji backs have always had that spark that we used to see from France and occasionally Wales off the cuff instinctive attack in broken play.

So you're agreeing with me then. Cracking.

 

[Maverick1987]

So you're agreeing with me then. Cracking.

Haha I think he's had too many brains SA and bangs on the head tbh . He just says anti-England stuff all the time . It wouldn't surprise me if he's one of the "planks" on the rugby banter page if I'm honest

I wouldn't swap our back line for anyone else's in the world at the moment if I'm honest . If Tuilagi comes in at 12 and works wonders we have threats in every position . All very young too (which is why I wouldn't swap our backline for the ABs back line)

 

[chippieolamus]

Haha I think he's had too many brains SA and bangs on the head tbh . He just says anti-England stuff all the time . It wouldn't surprise me if he's one of the "planks" on the rugby banter page if I'm honest

I wouldn't swap our back line for anyone else's in the world at the moment if I'm honest . If Tuilagi comes in at 12 and works wonders we have threats in every position . All very young too (which is why I wouldn't swap our backline for the ABs back line)

Are you mad? I would certainly take Smith - Cruden - NMS - SBW - Fekitoa - Savea - Smith over our backline (thats what I assume the AB backline will be going forwards after the RWC)

 

[ABs2015]

Haha I think he's had too many brains SA and bangs on the head tbh . He just says anti-England stuff all the time . It wouldn't surprise me if he's one of the "planks" on the rugby banter page if I'm honest

I wouldn't swap our back line for anyone else's in the world at the moment if I'm honest . If Tuilagi comes in at 12 and works wonders we have threats in every position . All very young too (which is why I wouldn't swap our backline for the ABs back line)

That's a big call mate. Love your support for your team though!

I don't get the time to check out the NH players often so I am really looking forward to this world cup and amongst other things seeing this England backline. I hear good things about Watson and Joseph.

That being said, you guys would have to be pretty darn amazing to have a better backing than the ABs. Not saying that isn't the case of course, but I certainly rate our guys pretty highly.

Regarding youth, I'm not sure I buy that argument. Nonu is playing the best rugby of his career. C. Smith has IMO been the best centre in the world for several years now. And DC, well IMO when he is given free reign he is still one of the classiest 10s in the world - i just think the ABs have been extra cautious with him over the last 4 years. But if his last test is anything to go by, age is not really an issue for him either. When he takes on the line things open up for the rest of the backs. Anyway, this is an England Fiji thread so I probably shouldn't bang on

Are you mad? I would certainly take Smith - Cruden - NMS - SBW - Fekitoa - Savea - Smith over our backline (thats what I assume the AB backline will be going forwards after the RWC)

Yeah moving forward I think you are probably about right although SBW has signed up with the 7s programme so a spot has opened up in the centres. Not sure who gets that spot at the moment. Ngatai playing well, Crotty has been there before, Buckman is an option as well I guess.

 

[Mcfadden]

Are you mad? I would certainly take Smith - Cruden - NMS - SBW - Fekitoa - Savea - Smith over our backline (thats what I assume the AB backline will be going forwards after the RWC)

Most likely. I'm not crazy about that midfield combo, but yeah. Fekitoa is a bit overrated I think, but that's just an opinion I don't screach too loudly. Conrad and Ma'a set one hell of a bench mark though. Like ABs2015 said though, there are a few other candidates that might be unknown to the northern hemisphere. George Moala at the Blues has pretty solid stats, Ngatai could be there but he's very injury prone, and Crotty is a 'safe' kinda player without being too fancy. Anyway, just thought I'd add my 2 cents!

Have pretty much already made my predictions for this match. I need England to win by more than 12 to keep myself in with a shot at winning a million bucks!

 

[Maverick1987]

I just like our players tbh . If we could only find a great 12 and maybe get Savea a English passport to play the left wing instead of May is be happy as a pig in **** lol

I straight up wouldn't swap Joseph for anyone in the world including Jesus though .....

Tbh I'm hanging my hat on the age part a lot though . To be fair a few of our players could get to 25 and be poop haha

Ford, Tuilagi, Joseph and Watson are all under 23 I think also Nowell can be added to that and I think a few other "kids" will be added after the RWC. Given time together they can be a sight to behold imo

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Regarding youth, I'm not sure I buy that argument. Nonu is playing the best rugby of his career. C. Smith has IMO been the best centre in the world for several years now. And DC, well IMO when he is given free reign he is still one of the classiest 10s in the world - i just think the ABs have been extra cautious with him over the last 4 years. But if his last test is anything to go by, age is not really an issue for him either. When he takes on the line things open up for the rest of the backs.

I think it's more the case of they are already firing at a young age and so have many more years in which they could potentially get even better and will build team chemistry. At the moment England backs have not been the same for extended periods of time for AGES. In Lancasters reign we have had for the following:

9: Youngs/Care swapping every 2 years it seems as preferred choice
10: Farrell/Ford 3 years for Farrel and 1 for Ford
11: Yarde/May/Nowell
12: 12trees/Burrell/Barritt/Burgess
13: Tuilagi/Burrell/Joseph only 1 year for Joseph and Burrell
14: Ashton/Watson/Nowell
15: Brown/Goode Only 2 years for Brown

There is no player in our backs now that was nailed on starter when Lancaster took over. Our backs have been shuffled about so much it makes PSA wet.

 

[Muzzy]

Goneva is a great winger but don't rate him at centre at all.
Not seen much of Tikoirotuma but his debut for Harlequins was one of the worst debuts I've seen.

Haven't seen him at the Harlequins, but he was very good when he used to play for the Chiefs. He was a speedster for the chiefs but seems to be more of a physical player now. I never rated him myself until he played for the Chiefs. But he got caught out in defense against Samoa this year giving away two tries





This is pretty funny

Nayacalevu was the best 13 in the Top 14 last season, I'd swap him and Goneva too. We'll have to trust the coach on this one.

Fiji have so many possible combinations they could use in the centers its hard to know which is the best because they all offer different things and can all play different positions. The final against Samoa was the first time I'd seen Nayacalevu at center and he was great, two of his runs lead to two crucial tries. But I guess they're going for Goneva at center because of his tackling.

 

[Shaggy]

I just like our players tbh . If we could only find a great 12 and maybe get Savea a English passport to play the left wing instead of May is be happy as a pig in **** lol

I straight up wouldn't swap Joseph for anyone in the world including Jesus though .....

Tbh I'm hanging my hat on the age part a lot though . To be fair a few of our players could get to 25 and be poop haha

Ford, Tuilagi, Joseph and Watson are all under 23 I think also Nowell can be added to that and I think a few other "kids" will be added after the RWC. Given time together they can be a sight to behold imo

On current form, I'd take Nadolo over Savea (in the AB backline) ... that's not to say Savea won't have a great RWC, or that he's a spent force, just that he's struggled this year, and Nadolo has some skills that Savea doesn't.

If you think fiji have a better back line than england then you're saying that they have a better back line than everyone but NZ and maybe Aus.

Imho England have the best backline in the NH (wales push them) and probably shade SA too. Certainly in attack. But our pack has been so so for a while, with an unbalanced back row, lack of brute physicality in the locks and both set pieces faltering. Not that this will matter v Fiji

Nadolo with no ball defending against Watson and May.... If the weather is decent i see tries for England.

Ford is my worry for this game. When they do get ball the fijians will send people down his channel and we'll concede lots of yards. This puts pressure on the breakdown and we have been prone to being penalised in that area.

Am I? I think South Africa's backs are pretty good too; the English backs may score more tries than the Fijians, but I'd expect that they'll have a better platform provided from their Forwards to work from.

I don't think I actually said that the Fijian backs are better anyway; I just looked back at my posts ... might have difficulty containing one or two, ignore them on the counter attack at your peril, the mismatch will be in the forwards etc.

The post that you are replying to here is mainly to address what I see as a falsehood, that they can't play in the wet, and that there opposition has been weak to date.

... That's absolutely right, the smart play is to keep the ball away from Nadolo (he's not a bad defender though)

 

[ABs2015]

I think it's more the case of they are already firing at a young age and so have many more years in which they could potentially get even better and will build team chemistry. At the moment England backs have not been the same for extended periods of time for AGES. In Lancasters reign we have had for the following:

For sure, I hear ya. Thats a really good thing, and great for England that it sounds like they have put their faith in some young fullahs and that has paid off. Hopefully they will continue to develop, and then as you say, in a few years time they could be unstoppable.

It's a little tough to make a comparison with the ABs team based on youth though as we just don't get to see the youthful guys in action as there are some older guys in the team that are world class so the younger guys simply can't get a look in at regular starting spots (let alone see them all together at one time). Fekitoa will be a world class starter. Cruden and Barrett are two guys that will have their time & Piutau has to be one of the best players in world rugby without a starting spot - I have no doubt he will be back in the AB jersey by the next world cup. You put those guys along side the other young boys already in the backline: A Smith, Savea, and NMS/Naholo and I think you get some idea of what the ABs backline of the future will look like. The England backline may well turn out to be better, but you must admit the potential ABs one will be pretty good too.

Looking forward to seeing the England backs against the Fijians.

- - - Updated - - -

Tikoirotuma? I'm a Manawatu lad, and saw a lot of him in his 4 seasons there. He is a very good player and was unlucky not to get a better crack at Super Rugby. Ended up in the Chiefs side who had a whole heap of outside backs and coach Rennie liked to swap them around a lot. Haven't seen him since he left NZ, but I have no doubt he can match it at International level. Perhaps a little suspect on D, but is wonderful on attack and very quick.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Fair play he does look very good in those clips - didn't watch a whole lot of Quins games, and not sure how much game time he got (was brought in as injury/international cover, I believe), so he could well have gone well for them last season, I just remember his first game.

 

[rugby_mad]

Fiji 25 England 13 ....

 

[Dizzy]

Waddup yall..

Fiji to win by 12pts or less

 

[Peat]

No he wouldn't. Ashton and May outright missed tackles and dropped right off them, Ford doesn't. He has a very successful tackle rate, what he doesn't do is drive people back in the tackle. Stop equating not being a strong defender with being a poor tackler.

It's a lot harder to complete your tackles on the wing with the most dangerous runners coming at you with space than it is to tackle in midfield as part of a double tackle everytime. His technique is strong but there's better tacklers than Ford who've been made to look silly on the wing in international rugby.

 

[optimuswolf]

Am I? I think South Africa's backs are pretty good too; the English backs may score more tries than the Fijians, but I'd expect that they'll have a better platform provided from their Forwards to work from.

I don't think I actually said that the Fijian backs are better anyway; I just looked back at my posts ... might have difficulty containing one or two, ignore them on the counter attack at your peril, the mismatch will be in the forwards etc.

The post that you are replying to here is mainly to address what I see as a falsehood, that they can't play in the wet, and that there opposition has been weak to date.

... That's absolutely right, the smart play is to keep the ball away from Nadolo (he's not a bad defender though)

Apologies I'm not sure why i thought you claimed they were a stronger backline. I like the SA backs too but de villiers actually weakens the lineup now.

We definitely want to keep the ball away frim Nadolo as lancaster as watson and May aren't the greatest defenders.

I was impressed by Fiji in the PNC, but the opposition wasn't top tier so they need to step up big time to get more than 1 win from this group. Wales will be decent and the Aussies are always better in the WC.

 

[Mcfadden]

I wouldn't swap our back line for anyone else's in the world at the moment if I'm honest . If Tuilagi comes in at 12 and works wonders we have threats in every position . All very young too (which is why I wouldn't swap our backline for the ABs back line)

Israel Folau would probably be my first choice for fullback because I think he's the best offensive fullback in the world. But if I didn't have the luxury of accurate tackling machines and turnover merchants in the forwards then I'd be more inclined to go with a Mike Brown or Ben Smith who are more reliable in defense. Brown is probably good for England, so I can see why you wouldn't change that. I can also see what you're saying about age. The players you have are good for you guys.