[2014 Mid-Year Tests] Ireland

[iINDOMINUSxx]

yeah i may aswell finish off the teams from the six nations so i made the thread for ireland and of-course i'll do france after this thread
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so what are thinking from the six nation champions. Joe Schmidt had clearly made an impact into the irish team and what a change it was. so unfortunately we wouldn't be seeing brian o'driscoll but who will be the replacement center (i haven't seen the other treads yet) Danny cave is a good act or maybe Robbie Henshaw could be a good replacement or Fergus McFadden i think is a good center and i just remembered about Luke Marshall he was a class center i still remember his debut against scotland played well i thought . but btw i really would like to see Craig Gilroy and Simon Zebo back in the action even though with Dave Kearney and Andrew Trimble on the wings i dont think ireland needs them but it would be good to see them back in the team.

i think Josef Schmidt went with an easy tour as they are going to south america this year:

Argentina vs Ireland
7 June 2014, Time to be confirmed
Estadio Centenario, Resistencia, Argentina

Argentina vs Ireland
14 June 2014, Time to be confirmed
Estadio Monumental José Fierro, Tucumán, Argentina
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so that will be two good and easy wins for ireland i think

 

[siochain]

Luke Fitzgerald and Jared Payne are two potential BOD replacements.

This summers tours will see a few of the senior players rested. There
were some reports at the weekend claiming the IRFU and racing are in talks about how to best manage JS amount of playing time. IRFU are seemingly offering to rest JS during the summer in return for more access to him during the 6 nations and training camps coming up-to the REC.

 

[ruggabee]

I don't think a player who isn't playing 13 for their province will be in contention. The only player who is being considered for the 13 jersey even though he doesn't play there for his province is Henshaw and that's because he has age on his side. If we are picking someone who actually plays the position week in week out and is displaying impressive form for their province then the leading candidate for me would be Darren Cave. Naming guys like Fitzgerald, Bowe and Payne for the 13 jersey is very much a 'maybe they can do it' scenario and I don't think it would be a realistic option under Schmidt. That action would be necessary if we didn't have potential candidates but we do. If Cave is clearly out of his depth in Argentina then we'll have to start experimenting with the utilities like Henshaw, Fitzgerald and Payne etc.

 

[Big Ewis]

again, the Pumas are going to field a crappy B, part C even squad. Ireland are deeper than ever and will test those other guys, and being brilliantly coached as they are will put a couple of 30pt performances on the Pumas B, possibly more, as Argentina doesn't have the depth themselves.

 

[ruggabee]

again, the Pumas are going to field a crappy B, part C even squad. Ireland are deeper than ever and will test those other guys, and being brilliantly coached as they are will put a couple of 30pt performances on the Pumas B, possibly more, as Argentina doesn't have the depth themselves.

There's only two tests though. Cave in 1 test and Henshaw in the 2nd? How many guys can they possibly test on that tour. I'd want to give the front running candidates the chance ahead of the utilities. Also to really get an idea of whether Cave or Henshaw show potential as internationals they'll need a fair amount of game time to really settle and perform. I'd say the utilities will be slowly exposed to the Ireland set up over the long term by first getting them to play 13 for their provinces and then increasing their international exposure.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I think it's interesting to contrast the reactions of Dan Tuohy, Andrew Trimble and Darren Cave on their non-selections last November. Trimble and Tuohy have spoken about how they've knuckled down and worked on the parts of their game which Joe Schmidt felt they needed to develop. Darren Cave wondered whether his face didn't fit on and bemoaned Roger Wilson not winning as many caps as Jamie Heaslip.

I'm a fan of Cave but will those comments come back to haunt him? It wouldn't surprise me if Schmidt gives Robbie Henshaw the lions share of game time over the summer and November tests given he has more scope to improve and mould his game. Then in Jared Payne, Luke Fitzgerald, Keith Earls, Fergus McFadden and Tommy Bowe, Schmidt will have more than enough cover for the 13 shirt ahead of the World Cup so he doesn't have to pick another specialist 13 in his squad. Cave could find himself isolated.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I think it's interesting to contrast the reactions of Dan Tuohy, Andrew Trimble and Darren Cave on their non-selections last November. Trimble and Tuohy have spoken about how they've knuckled down and worked on the parts of their game which Joe Schmidt felt they needed to develop. Darren Cave wondered whether his face didn't fit on and bemoaned Roger Wilson not winning as many caps as Jamie Heaslip.

I'm a fan of Cave but will those comments come back to haunt him? It wouldn't surprise me if Schmidt gives Robbie Henshaw the lions share of game time over the summer and November tests given he has more scope to improve and mould his game. Then in Jared Payne, Luke Fitzgerald, Keith Earls, Fergus McFadden and Tommy Bowe, Schmidt will have more than enough cover for the 13 shirt ahead of the World Cup so he doesn't have to pick another specialist 13 in his squad. Cave could find himself isolated.

Would Trimble have made the squad if Bowe, Fitzgerald, Earls and Zebo weren't injured? I doubt it, D.Kearney was probably ahead of him in the ranks too. Regards Tuohy, with Ryan injured he always was going to be in the squad as we have so little options there, and he brings qualities that our other locks don't have.
I don't blame Cave for his comments, he's been very consistent for Ulster and never got a shoe in, even right now he's probably our best 13 with BOD now gone. You can argue that Henshaw has more potential, but as of right now Cave is the best 13 in Ireland.

 

[Peat]

*shrugs* The statements made are irrelevant and were somewhat misunderstood anyway. It is the actions behind the scene that matter and we don't know how those are going. The players' comments aren't significant to that.

It wouldn't surprise me either if Henshaw got the nod either - he's been getting it to date - but the reason is he's got more scope to improve as is he's a quicker, bigger man; not what Cave has said, or really, what he does. No amount of training or concentrating on Schmidt's advice are going to change those facts.

Cave has at least two and up to eight really big games (I don't know how full bore the Glasgae/Leinster/Munster games in the Pro12 will be) in a strong side to make his case and maybe a prayer with injury luck. He can show what he can do there. Schmidt is a new man and doesn't seem to be bearing grudges over resentment from the previous regimes. Cave can take that chance or he can watch it sail by. Doesn't get fairer than that.

 

[TheSaffycen]

It's a shame that Ireland don't have more of a challenge. Last year was a weak tour of America and now I wanted to see them play Australia or New Zealand to test Schmidt's Ireland to their full potential ahead of the World Cup. I have seen Ferris is back playing for Ulster is there any chance we can see Ferris ,O'Brien ,Heaslip/O'Mahoney ?

 

[WillKillSin]

these fellows are looking well strong in this coming age. I wonder if they haven't swallowed any of that black stuff the New Zealanders take before each match...smuggled in by that Joe Schmidt character. The future is looking bright. Bright green.

 

[IRISH RUGBY MAN]

Who does everyone think will be rested? Personally, I think it will depend on how our sides do in the heineken cup. But I can see Best, Ross, maybe O'Connell, O'Brien, Heaslip, Sexton, D'Arcy? Probably players such Healy, Henry, O'Mahony and Murray could be too. I'll run through my squad which I would pick at the minute cause I'm bored,. This might change depending on how ulster, Munster and Leinster perform. I shall pick a 35 man squad for now


LOOSEHEAD PROP
I would like to see Healy go and take on a big leadership role. He's a man that can lead from the front and players will follow him. It's an easy enough choice with Jack McGrath going and if Healy doesn't go he will start. If Healy is rested, I would say Dave Kilcoyne will go however I would like to see James Cronin go as I think it would bring him on.


HOOKER
Rory Best should be rested in my opinion. There is no doubt that Sean Cronin should start in my mind as he has been excellent of the bench for us. I would like to see Rob Herring go ahead of Richardt Strauss although I wouldn't feel badly if Strauss went but Herring has age on his side and has been in great form.


TIGHTHEAD PROP
Mike Ross should be given a rest if we want him to go to the World Cup. However I feel Marty Moore is already ahead of him and will start for us in the autumn. I would also take with us probably Stephen Archer as I don't really see anyone else we could take yet.


LOCK
I would give Paulie a rest as I believe Munster will have a big end to the season and he could do with a rest. Dev Toner will go as he has nailed down that shirt after the six nations. Hopefully Dan Tuohy will be back in form by this stage and we will be able to take him. I would bring Iain Henderson as a lock as we have a certain person at 6 I would like to bring. Our 4th choice lock for me would be either Dave Foley or Donnacha Ryan. I would bring Dave Foley as he has youth on his side and has been in good form.


FLANKER
Well there is one person I very much want to see back in an Ireland shirt as soon as possible. FEZ! Would love to see the tank back in an Ireland shirt. Would like to see O'Mahony go and take on a big leadership role. Chris Henry Should go and start at 7 too. Jordi Murphy and Rhys Ruddock should both go as they are good young players and are very solid and reliable. Tommy O'Donnell will also go and should get a look in as well. I think Robbie Diack should also go as he's became a very solid player and deserves it.


NUMBER 8
Robin Copeland should go just so we can see him if nothing else, I'd be resting Heaslip and Copeland is next best thing.


SCRUM HALF
Again I want to see Connor Murray go and take on a new leadership role, and I believe he can become that. So I want to see him go. The next choice is tough, but I'd go Kieran Marmoin. I think it would be a good way to blood him and we all know what Reddan can do. I think Luke McGrath at Leinster has a bit more potential but he is not any where near ready.


FLY HALF
Paddy Jackson will go and play a big part, as well Iain Madigan. Jackson, for me, is a level above Madigan and deserves to start. For the 3rd choice, I would bring JJ Hanrahan. I think the boy has something special and could be very very good. It would expose him to the environment and create extra depth.


CENTRE
If fit Luke Marshall will and should go, he should also start 12 with D'Arcy being rested. Joe has already talked about Robbie Henshaw and Darren Cave will be in the frame to replace BOD so these two will both go. I think we need to find another 12 to play as well, but I am not sure who this should be? I will go for Fergus McFadden to play second fiddle. If only Olding was fit!!


WING
After the 6 Nations, Andrew Trimble and Dave Kearney deserve to go and hopefully will. Tommy Bowe should go as well as we could do with his leadership and he seems to be looking pretty sharp. Luke Fitzgerald was looking sharp before his injury and hopefully he can get back to that form. The last position is a toss up between Keith Earls and Craig Gilroy but for me it goes to Keith Earls. Before his injury he was in good form and was looking sharp.


FULL BACK
Again I think Rob Kearney should go and play a leadership type role. I think it would improve him as a player with that extra responsibility. I also think Simon Zebo should go and play as a wing/full back.


I would say the team will be completely different from the 1st and 2nd weeks but I would like to see
1st test
1. Cian Healy
2. Sean Cronin
3. Mike Sherry
4. Dan Tuohy
5. Iain Henderson
6. Stephen Ferris
7. Tommy O'Donnell
8. Peter O'Mahony (C)
9. Kieran Marmoin
10. Paddy Jackson
11. Andrew Trimble
12. Fergus McFadden
13. Darren Cave
14. Luke Fitzgerald
15. Rob Kearney
subs
16. Rob Herring
17. Jack McGrath
18. Marty Moore
19. Dave Foley
20. Robin Copeland
21. Conor Murray
22. JJ Hanrahan
23. Kieth Earls


2nd Test
1. Jack McGrath
2. Rob Herring
3. Marty Moore
4. Dev Toner
5. Dave Foley
6. Rhys Ruddock
7. Chris Henry (C)
8. Jordi Murphy
9. Conor Murray
10. Iain Madigan
11. Tommy Bowe
12. Luke Marshall
13. Robbie Henshaw
14. Dave Kearney
15. Simon Zebo
subs
16. Sean Cronin
17. Cian Healy
18. Mike Sherry
19. Robbie Diack
20. Stephen Ferris
21. Kieran Marmoin
22. JJ Hanrahan
23. Keith Earls

 

[Feicarsinn]

I can't see Schmidt making all that many changes. There'll be players rested, but the bulk of the squad will be similar to that of the 6 nations. He's more of an evolution kinda guy than revolution. I can see him bringing in Donnacha Ryan, Tommy Bowe, a new 13 and maybe a couple of other guys dotted around the park, but 10 guys who weren't part of the 6 nations squad for the first test seems unrealistic.

 

[munstermuffin]

I can't see Schmidt making all that many changes. There'll be players rested, but the bulk of the squad will be similar to that of the 6 nations. He's more of an evolution kinda guy than revolution. I can see him bringing in Donnacha Ryan, Tommy Bowe, a new 13 and maybe a couple of other guys dotted around the park, but 10 guys who weren't part of the 6 nations squad for the first test seems unrealistic.

Schmidt said during week there's only 10 games or so before RWC and 5 are games are 6Nations so he needs to try add in to squad but can't leave many "rested" as he needs continuity. So I won't expect to much change or left at home. POC and Sexton maybe but after that I don't think many more will be

 

[Feicarsinn]

Yeah, that's what I'd expect. You look at the All Blacks coming north every year, they know that they'll probably win most games comfortably, but they still send their strongest squad. Gotta keep momentum.

In any case, there aren't many areas of the squad where we're horribly exposed. We need to look at outside centre and possibly another scrum half, but we have decent depth in all other areas. Paddy Jackson and/or Ian Madigan should get a decent whack at 10.

Actually, with that in mind Joe might be a bit hesitant to give Marmion time. If you're playing a relatively inexperienced 10 while also trying to integrate a new outside centre into the side you may not need that extra change.

 

[munstermuffin]

Yeah, that's what I'd expect. You look at the All Blacks coming north every year, they know that they'll probably win most games comfortably, but they still send their strongest squad. Gotta keep momentum.

In any case, there aren't many areas of the squad where we're horribly exposed. We need to look at outside centre and possibly another scrum half, but we have decent depth in all other areas. Paddy Jackson and/or Ian Madigan should get a decent whack at 10.

Actually, with that in mind Joe might be a bit hesitant to give Marmion time. If you're playing a relatively inexperienced 10 while also trying to integrate a new outside centre into the side you may not need that extra change.

With that. It's why I expect D'Arcy to tour because it'll be with inexperienced 13. Also I don't think Marmion is in Joes plans so can't see him doing much if he tours.

Areas I think we need depth are as you say 10 but 9 also and I think Heaslip needs to be dropped just to see what alternatives are like at 8. Nothing to do with Heaslip just I think we need to have another 8.

 

[Big Ewis]

is SOB back yet for his club ? Will we see him this summer ?

 

[lynam1104]

is SOB back yet for his club ? Will we see him this summer ?

Nope there was a possibility of him making it back for finals time but he got an infection after the surgery and won't be back now till next season. Not a huge issue particularly with Fez coming back.

 

[Feicarsinn]

With that. It's why I expect D'Arcy to tour because it'll be with inexperienced 13. Also I don't think Marmion is in Joes plans so can't see him doing much if he tours.

Areas I think we need depth are as you say 10 but 9 also and I think Heaslip needs to be dropped just to see what alternatives are like at 8. Nothing to do with Heaslip just I think we need to have another 8.

Well for one thing, I think it's time we stopped saying dropped when we refer to players coming in and out of the panel. I know it's rather pedantic on my part, but the fact is that the starting 15 and the 23 at large appear to be being picked on a horses for courses bases. For example, take Madigan over Jackson for the France game. Madigan was more than likely picked due to his versatility (apparently D'arcy was carrying a knock) and his attacking threat. If we were in need of a try in the final ten you'd probably want Madigan on the field, given his try scoring record. Not a massive issue, but I feel it's more reflective of how the squad is currently being treated than saying player x was dropped in favor of player y.

The 8 situation is interesting. Jamie Heaslip could probably do with a summer off at this stage. Since the World Cup he's had two tests against the All Blacks and a full Lions tour to keep him busy at the tail end of the season. Against a weak enough Argentina outfit it'll be a good opportunity to get someone else in there. Robin Copeland is the most likely, although it's a shame that O'Brien is out. With the back row looking so balanced in the six nations it would have been interesting to see how he would have fitted in there with O'Mahony and Henry on the flanks.

Ruddock and O'Mahony are options too I guess, but neither of them play their best rugby at 8 imo. Wilson is a little but over the hill if we're looking to build for the next 3 or 4 years.

 

[Big Ewis]

Ireland really has a pure quality third row these days, and very good depth at it. Hoping to see that SOB back asap.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

hoping to see Ferris back too in the ireland shirt