Wales v Australia

[Shaggy]

I'm starting to like Wayne Barnes, "Not a prop or second row, you're the special ones."

... I'm sure if that if that EVER happened to me, the process would take SO long, and be SO gradual that I wouldn't realise it was happening

 

[Tomsey]

The good
The backline, especially the back three. Created so many opportunities behind a forward pack that was struggling. I get way too excited when I think about how good they could be by the World Cup
The bad
The forwards got dominated a bit around the ruck. However they played quite well in the loose, especially Elsom. Going to have to muscle up in that area if we are going to beat England.
The ugly
The scrum. I've seen a couple of Aussies trying to defend it in this thread "we lost our starting hooker in the warm up" and "Alexander and Robinson only just returned from injury". Are you guys for real? No international scrum should be that bad regardless of anyting. It was just awful. I'm a fullback so what I know about scrummaging you could write on the back of a 10 cent piece, but I just don't understand how they can be that bad. Going to have to improve about 30 fold if we are going to beat the English.


Although I admit the Aussie Scrum was dreadful it would have been nice to hear the commentators talk about the game a little bit, rather than just the scrum. I know all commentators are slightly biased to their own country, most of them used to play for their country so its understandable, but Jonothan Davies takes it to another level. He is the most biased ignorant commentator in world rugby. Some of the things he says make me nearl fall of the couch they are so ill thought-out and ridiculous. Its not as if Wales had the perfect game but he didn't mention that at all and everything good the Wallabies did, he gave the Welsh credit for...

Fair result in the end. We all saw the lack of creativity from 9-13 hurting Wales' attacking opportunities, which is exactly what happened. The pack as a whole were superb, Lydiate the quietest of the lot, but doing some hard work. I though Warburton was superb bar a coulple of penalties given away. He is so quick to the breakdown that he simply got there before Pocock 9 times out of 10. Pocock was good again, but not quite as effective as last year against Wales. Gethin Jenkins showed again why he's considered by many to be the best prop in the world, to dominate a scrum like that AND play like another backrower was phenomenal.
In the backs, Bishop was awesome in defense and was the most threatening in attack aswell. Very disapointed with Stephen Jones today, he was good in defense as always but simply could not do much with ball in hand. Missed a couple of kicks he should easily have landed aswell. Shanks was very similar imo, just didn't offer anything to this team really, not that he was bad, just extremely average. I was most dissapointed with Shane Williams though, he should have tackled O'Connor in the lead up to Beale's try and didn't really get into the game in attack. Harries wasn't much better, fell off numerous tackles and only showed his attacking flair in the last 5mins.
Aus were never in denger of loosing that match. Pocock and Elsom carried your forwards kicking and screamign through that game. Can't for the life of me work out why Elsom doesn't help scrum time though! Backs were deadly as always, even though Wales' defense was awesome. Beale was a joy to watch whenever he got the ball in his hands.
This game kinda reminded me of the Wales v France game in the grand slam game of '08. That day, Wales just fanned out all day long giving France no room to attack, but scored when we had the opportunity. Today the Wallabies did the same. I actually though Aus' defense was very good today. A few missed tackles, but there was always someone else to complete the tackle. Whilst Wales were making yards with the bif runners, we still couldn't produce any space our wide for Shane, Harries and Hook to attack. I think we missed Byrne hugely today, Hook simply offers nothing in attack from fullback. A fullback has to hit the line from depth at angles, Hook does not do this. Whilst he was ok today, he was far from the player we know he can be. He looked best when he stepped into the 10 role in the last 5 mins.
For the next game I want Hook back in the centre with maybe Czekaj at 15. Start Rees as I though he added some threat around the rucks. And maybe start Martyn at 7 with Warburon at 6. Lydiate was ok, but didn't stand out as I was hoping, Whilst Martyn added something different when he came on.

Totally agree with your analysis of the Welsh performance here. Defo need Hook back at 13 and although I've always rated Phillips he was it was evident how much the Welsh improved when Rees came on. I haven't seen much of Warburton before but he proved he is real class, if changes are brought in for the Springbok game he has to be in there somewhere

 

[Haysie]

Yeh you're probably right. They are professional commentators afterall. Suppose you've gotta take it for what it is, Jiffy loves to have a joke, he'll generally have a little fun. I find it quite entertaining really, but then again my team isn't on the recieving end of it.... I think you've gotta take it as a little light harted benter and nothing else. Afterall there's no denying the Aus scrum were abismal, and they were taking an age before setting each scrum.

There was nothing comical about your commentators, other than they were so one-eyed it's hilarious. But I've come to expect that from Welsh commentators, it's as much a part of the game as the Haka.
There was a quote during the week from a documentary of Australia's Grand Slam in 1984 - "You could never beat Wales. You could score more points than them, but you couldn't beat them". That's indicative of how passionate the country is, bordering on bias. But it's fair enough
I'd like to pull one piece of commentary though from yesterday's match...
After Quade Cooper had pumped a great kick back into Wales' 5m line to put them under pressure... "See that's what great Wales pressure does, forces Cooper to kick into the corner".
Please. <_<

[EDIT] That was the one with the high pitched voice, is that Davies?

 

[drewprint]

I said the same thing earlier, but it got lost amongst some larger posts.

I think my favourite part of the totally biased, inept and laughable commentary is when Wales did a poor kick out of their 22 straight down Quade Coopers throat, Cooper returned serve with a fantastic touch finder 5 metres out from the Welsh line, and one guy said something along the lines of "Good kick by Cooper, but it was he was forced to do so by some excellent Welsh play."

Oh dear.

Laughable wasn't it?

 

[Wally]

Dear me that scrum is a worry. Credit to Wales for the dismantling of the Australian front row because not even the All Blacks or Springboks came close to giving us that kind of beating. Revokes painful memories of that match at Twickenham a few years ago. I'm glad it happened on this tour rather than in the the lead up to the world cup (along with the goal kicking problems). I know that Alexander and Robinson are good scrummagers (on the contrary to what the commentators kept stating - they obviously haven't seen them play outside the Wales game) so it's hard to pinpoint exactly what happened. Yes they are both coming back from injury but that shouldn't be an excuse.

 

[Duckdee]

That was the one with the high pitched voice, is that Davies?

Yup, and the other guy was Scottish, not Welsh.

 

[Haysie]

Yup, and the other guy was Scottish, not Welsh.

They must really not like Australia in the NH then.

 

[dullonien]

There was nothing comical about your commentators, other than they were so one-eyed it's hilarious. But I've come to expect that from Welsh commentators, it's as much a part of the game as the Haka.
There was a quote during the week from a documentary of Australia's Grand Slam in 1984 - "You could never beat Wales. You could score more points than them, but you couldn't beat them". That's indicative of how passionate the country is, bordering on bias. But it's fair enough
I'd like to pull one piece of commentary though from yesterday's match...
After Quade Cooper had pumped a great kick back into Wales' 5m line to put them under pressure... "See that's what great Wales pressure does, forces Cooper to kick into the corner".
Please. <_<

[EDIT] That was the one with the high pitched voice, is that Davies?

Well I found it quite funny Na seriously though, that comment you and drewprint mentioned was praising the Welsh defense. Aus barely kicked the ball against NZ last week, but yesterday the Welsh defense did force them to do so a little more. It's perfectly obvious that the Aus backline are lethal on the counter attack, and for them to get the ball from a kick within the Welsh half and kick it to the corner did show a very good chace of the kick. I was much happier to see Cooper kick the ball than run it, as our lineout was going fine and it was a chance to clear our lines. The commentators praised the kick as a very good one.

Anyway, I'm not trying to defend the commentators, as they are clearly biased, just as the commentators are in Aus and NZ when I've heard them, (quite a few of the recordings I have of previous matches have Aus or NZ commentary). It's extremely tough to get un-biased commentators, Bill McLaren was the best rugby commentator ever because he managed it to a certain extent, not that even he could stop himself getting excited when Scotland did somethign special.

Edit: youn need to listen to some commentry Jonathan Davies did on a Cardiff v London Irish? game a few years ago. I remember Shanklin was playing that day whilst Delon Armitage was on the bench for LI. When Armitage came on you could hear him getting a little excited, then a few mins later when Armitage tackled Shanklin, he just shouted out Armitage & Shanks. Hahaha, well it was funny at the time........

 

[TVH11]

Well all promise but in the end we ultimately shot our selves in the foot with no creativity in midfield (no disrespect to Shanklin and Bishop - thought they were solid but didn't see Shane williams and Will Harries get any tidy ball). Hook was wasted at fullback, play him at 12/13 where he actually gets in the game. Feel we dominated the scrums, but made nothing of our possession. Australian back three on the other hand were absolutely lethal, every time they had the ball they looked dangerous, and showed it with their try Just so disappointing that we didn't create anything at all... I feel we are slowly turning into the england side of 03 - All forwards and back three don't get anything (just less clinical and obviously no where near a world cup winning side). I felt that with more creativity we could have done something yesterday, but yet again its the same old story - Captain Hindsight and his trusty sidekicks (shoulda, woulda, coulda) to the "rescue" again i guess Bring on next week

 

[dullonien]

We've gotta take some positives out of the game though. For once our backrow stood up at the ruck against one of the top sides, that's a majour breakthrough imo, as we've struggled there for a long time. Lineout also went well when Rees was on the field, another archillies heel in the past. Backline obviously needs some work, and it's about time Gatland started concentrating on this aspect of our game, our fitness, strength and forward play is there, now we need the Welsh creativite back!

For next week I want this backline:

09 Richie Rees
10 Stephen Jones
11 Shane Williams
12 James Hook
13 Andrew Bishop
14 Aled Brew
15 Chris Czekaj

However this is the backline we should be aiming for for the WC:

09 Rees / Phillips / Knoyle
10 James Hook
11 Shane Williams
12 Gavin Henson (sorry, but he is despirately needed!)
13 Jamie Roberts (no-one can get over the ganeline like him!)
14 Leigh Halfpenny
15 Lee Byrne

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I feel we are slowly turning into the england side of 03

I don't get where this thing of England of 03 having no backs-game came from!
Lewsey, Cohen, Robinson and Greenwood would have something to say about it

 

[Haysie]

Edit: youn need to listen to some commentry Jonathan Davies did on a Cardiff v London Irish? game a few years ago. I remember Shanklin was playing that day whilst Delon Armitage was on the bench for LI. When Armitage came on you could hear him getting a little excited, then a few mins later when Armitage tackled Shanklin, he just shouted out Armitage & Shanks. Hahaha, well it was funny at the time........

Fair enough. We're all biased to some degree! I know I am.
Was Jonathan Davies the fella that lost it in commentary when the two teams kept kicking the ball? Something along the lines of "And here's the kick return... AND HE'S KICKED IT AGAIN! WHAT THE HELL WAS THE POINT OF THAT?"

 

[dullonien]

Nah, that was Brian Moore in one of England's games.

 

[TrueSlawter]

We've gotta take some positives out of the game though. For once our backrow stood up at the ruck against one of the top sides, that's a majour breakthrough imo, as we've struggled there for a long time. Lineout also went well when Rees was on the field, another archillies heel in the past. Backline obviously needs some work, and it's about time Gatland started concentrating on this aspect of our game, our fitness, strength and forward play is there, now we need the Welsh creativite back!

For next week I want this backline:

09 Richie Rees
10 Stephen Jones
11 Shane Williams
12 James Hook
13 Andrew Bishop
14 Aled Brew
15 Chris Czekaj

However this is the backline we should be aiming for for the WC:

09 Rees / Phillips / Knoyle
10 James Hook
11 Shane Williams
12 Gavin Henson (sorry, but he is despirately needed!)
13 Jamie Roberts (no-one can get over the ganeline like him!)
14 Leigh Halfpenny
15 Lee Byrne

got to say i agree with getting henson back if he plays well.. he's needed as for hook at 10 it'd be worth a shot to replace jones could even try it over the AI's and see how it goes.. but that would still leave uncreativity in 12 & 13

 

[lynam1104]

He was cut off wasn't he?

 

[dullonien]

Apparently Ryan Jones won't be fit for next week. If that's the case, who will play 8. I'd personally go with Andy Powell, as JT was poor yesterday. Maybe a backrow of Lydiate, Wabrurton and Powell, as after thinking about it a little more, I'd like to see the Lydiate, Warbutron partership continue.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd say Powell too, but i think that it's more likely he'll take Lydiates spot at 6 (which I don't agree with at all, but I can see it going that way)

 

[Thingimubob]

I wasn't sure about Lydiate, he did all the hard work but it was like I barely saw him. Warburton was superb though, was really impressed by him, really took the game to Pocock. Midfield was completely devoid of creativity, just as I think everyone knew it would be. Hook at 15 was a fail yet again, barely saw him all game apart from when the ball was kicked to him/he had to defend. He needs to be put back into the centre, it's a complete waste of his talents having him at 15 tbh.

Also, I love how some of the Australians here are complaining about the 'biased Welsh commentators' (I'll admit, Jonathan Davies is biased). Have you guys not ever listened to your own commentators?! Australian commentators are some of the most biased I've ever listened to. I dont really care that they are, because it's very very funny to listen to. I just remember when a angry looking Springbok fan came on screen after the Aussies scored a try, the commentator just shouted 'THAT GUYS NOT HAPPY, BUT NOBODY CARES!' :L

 

[Haysie]

I wasn't sure about Lydiate, he did all the hard work but it was like I barely saw him. Warburton was superb though, was really impressed by him, really took the game to Pocock. Midfield was completely devoid of creativity, just as I think everyone knew it would be. Hook at 15 was a fail yet again, barely saw him all game apart from when the ball was kicked to him/he had to defend. He needs to be put back into the centre, it's a complete waste of his talents having him at 15 tbh.

Also, I love how some of the Australians here are complaining about the 'biased Welsh commentators' (I'll admit, Jonathan Davies is biased). Have you guys not ever listened to your own commentators?! Australian commentators are some of the most biased I've ever listened to. I dont really care that they are, because it's very very funny to listen to. I just remember when a angry looking Springbok fan came on screen after the Aussies scored a try, the commentator just shouted 'THAT GUYS NOT HAPPY, BUT NOBODY CARES!' :L

But... no-body did care? :huh:
:lol:

I think because the Australian commentators are aimed more towards an Australian market, they can afford to be more biased. They are paid as entertainers too, remember. Also, they are on a cable network, and aren't really aiming for people that pick up the feed on the net overseas or at a pub in Europe.
Whereas when you have commentators doing a match that is a TV audience (At a guess) 70% Welsh and 30% Australian, there needs to be a relative balance.

 

[TVH11]

I don't get where this thing of England of 03 having no backs-game came from!
Lewsey, Cohen, Robinson and Greenwood would have something to say about it

hahahaha yer what i meant by that was that they kept it within the forwards when they had a great attacking backline They had billy wizz mun, they were great (unfortunately for us welsh).

Hook needs to be in the centre so that the ball actually get out to the back 3