A Political Thread pt. 2

[Welsh Exile]

Isn't the purpose of a protest to stop something from happening?

Not liking someone's views? Sounds pretty political to me.

I don't think anyone should be platforming Robinson

I wouldn’t say a protest is to stop something from happening. It’s to voice your opinion/concern. A riot or something more violent is to stop something from happening.

 

[ncurd]

Depends on the protest.

Shouting out a speaker isn't stopping them speaking, it's stopping them being heard (there's a huge difference here). There's also protest to express disagreement / dissatisfaction, rather than prevention (eg the anti-Brexit marches), and protests who's longer term aim may be the prevention, but no expectation that the individual protest itself is going to make a huge difference (eg anti-war protests, climate change, or simple strikes)

Thats fair my point is this kind of protest is hardly "shocking"

 

[Welsh Exile]

You know what is insane? Is the Overton window has skewed massively to the right in the past decade and anyone suggesting the left are shutting down "views".

You know the kind of views I don't want to listen to? My mother-in-law yesterday in my house saying "its all these men coming over and so many of them are committing sexual assault"

I know and I do hear you but, I dunno, I just prefer people to engage with people and argue there points well.

 

[ncurd]

I wouldn’t say a protest is to stop something from happening. It’s to voice your opinion/concern. A riot or something more violent is to stop something from happening.

This wasn't a riot though was it?

 

[Welsh Exile]

This wasn't a riot though was it?

No it wasn’t.

 

[ncurd]

I know and I do hear you but, I dunno, I just prefer people to engage with people and argue there points well.

You engage with Dirty Harry on an almost daily basis and he's a bad faith actor and you know it.

 

[Which Tyler]

And I would add, there is a cancer amongst society at the moment, especially rife amongst the left, of not willing to engage with people with different views. As @Saintjay said, university is the EXACT place where you should have the freedom to explore these things

The cancer on the left is that they don't want to engage with people who fundamentally disagree with (and usually, people who've proven that they won't engage in good-faith).
The cancer on the right is that they want to kill people they fundamentally disagree with.

DH doesn't like it, but the paradox of tolerance is a thing.

 

[ChicagoKid]

It’s curious that online forums not only skew left, but increasingly are so divergent from the medium voter on so many issues.

If you simply just took the majority opinion on this board or other online forums and bet the other way, you would be successful.

 

[Welsh Exile]

The cancer on the left is that they don't want to engage with people who fundamentally disagree with (and usually, people who've proven that they won't engage in good-faith).
The cancer on the right is that they want to kill people they fundamentally disagree with.

DH doesn't like it, but the paradox of tolerance is a thing.

Karl Popper (who I believe first came up with the paradox of tolerance) is one of my favourites. I saw Nick Fuentes name drop him the other day and I was like wtf. lol. He didn’t have anything nice to say about him of course he saved those nice words for Adolf Hitler. Ha ha.

 

[Welsh Exile]

You engage with Dirty Harry on an almost daily basis and he's a bad faith actor and you know it.

I think he’s only like that half the time. lol.

 

[ChicagoKid]

The cancer on the left is that they don't want to engage with people who fundamentally disagree with (and usually, people who've proven that they won't engage in good-faith).
The cancer on the right is that they want to kill people they fundamentally disagree with.

DH doesn't like it, but the paradox of tolerance is a thing.

This is a good example of my statement: The online forums think they are morally superior and correct, but voters globally completely disagree!

Ergo, the more time you spend on forums, the less informed and more wrong you become.

No wonder Reddit and here are so often wrong. Bizarre!

 

[Saintjay]

Depends on the protest.

Shouting out a speaker isn't stopping them speaking, it's stopping them being heard (there's a huge difference here, though it's one I expect that Mr Nuance himself can't see).
There's also protest to express disagreement / dissatisfaction, rather than prevention (eg the anti-Brexit marches), and protests who's longer term aim may be the prevention, but no expectation that the individual protest itself is going to make a huge difference (eg anti-war protests, climate change, or simple strikes)

You could make the arguement stopping someone being heard is to silence them. You are also choosing to not give others the opportunity to hear them. I'm assuming some of those in attendance wanted to hear what the speaker said. Not sure if that counts as restriction of speech or not tbh.

I don't think all protests are disruptive but some are done with the intent of causing disruption.

 

[Welsh Exile]

This is a good example of my statement: The online forums think they are morally superior and correct, but voters globally completely disagree!

Ergo, the more time you spend on forums, the less informed and more wrong you become.

No wonder Reddit and here are so often wrong. Bizarre!

I agree online generally skews left but it’s a place of bubbles isn’t it. You can quite easily find many places on line to cater for right wing views.

 

[ChicagoKid]

I agree online generally skews left but it’s a place of bubbles isn’t it. You can quite easily find many places on line to cater for right wing views.

I don’t mind skewing left. I live in a city dominated by the left for over a 100 years.

It’s the lack of introspection that puzzles me. Here in the city, you finally have people realizing the ground has shifted. It took them over a year, but people accept it now.

Online, it’s like the shift right never occurred. Or if it did in some way, it is illegitimate and therefore doesn’t need to be taken seriously.

And again, that is fine! You can believe something is an aberration. But when the same people are wrong for 10+ years, ifs hard to take them seriously.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I don’t mind skewing left. I live in a city dominated by the left for over a 100 years.

It’s the lack of introspection that puzzles me. Here in the city, you finally have people realizing the ground has shifted. It took them over a year, but people accept it now.

Online, it’s like the shift right never occurred. Or if it did in some way, it is illegitimate and therefore doesn’t need to be taken seriously.

And again, that is fine! You can believe something is an aberration. But when the same people are wrong for 10+ years, ifs hard to take them seriously.

Well, I would say they’ve been wrong on some things but not wrong on others. I mean, Trump, for example, is totally detached from reality to the point where he still insists he won 2020. That has serious effects on society both online and real life.

 

[ChicagoKid]

Well, I would say they’ve been wrong on some things but not wrong on others. I mean, Trump, for example, is totally detached from reality to the point where he still insists he won 2020. That has serious effects on society both online and real life.

I don’t want to analyze specific events because 1.) People interpret them differently. 2.) I’m discussing the general direction.

Anyways, I’ve enjoyed popping back into this thread for my bi-annual check in.

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy New Years.

Good health and peace to all the forum members.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I don’t want to analyze specific events because 1.) People interpret them differently. 2.) I’m discussing the general direction.

Anyways, I’ve enjoyed popping back into this thread for my bi-annual check in.

Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, Happy New Years.

Good health and peace to all the forum members.

You too.

On a side note, Bill Murray is performing live in Chicago in Jan and my sister has got tickets. So gutted I can’t be there. What a dude.

 

[ChicagoKid]

You too.

On a side note, Bill Murray is performing live in Chicago in Jan and my sister has got tickets. So gutted I can’t be there. What a dude.

Very nice. Bill Murray somehow has stayed relevant for 20+ years, which is nearly impossible in americas hyper competitive landscape.

He’s a smug prick, but I like smug pricks.

 

[ncurd]

I agree online generally skews left but it’s a place of bubbles isn’t it. You can quite easily find many places on line to cater for right wing views.

Online generally skews younger in demographics with those who grew up with it Millennials and younger Gen X. As those people generally are complex economics wise but skew heavily towards socially-liberal it creates the idea of a bubble. Its why Cameron has to have the appeal to the center he did.

Zoomers are weird because they splitting heavily on social ground within gender lines which is going to take massive unpacking at some point.


Its hard for me to have anedoctal stuff it feels like social-liberalism is going through a hard time because voters skew heavily at 55+. I talk to people my age, younger and older at work and in my social life and I just know my worldview is heavilly seperated from those who are voting Farage/Trump. And when I do encounter those kind of people its obvious (a) they'll believe whatever the press say even if its demonstrably wrong, (b) it comes from a place of absolote ignorance and -phobia.

 

[ncurd]

Incidentally always good to watch Ian Hislop's being interviewed on Politics Joe this time of year.