A Political Thread pt. 2

[dirty harry]

The Iranian revolution worked at well and for the good of all.

It did work though lol. That was more of a frying pan into the fire situation though wasn't it?

I'm not big on it but isn't that the ending of the monarchy, beginning of Islam Republic?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I mean they are the same, both stormed the Capitol, both were treated very differently by police...

Both were products of lock downs, and the frustrations of covid, both were misguided for different reasons, and yes both were affiliated with sitting presidents (although in BLMs case it was promoted by Obama, and used for political purposes by Biden, probably not a fair comparison). The difference between them in reality is you believe 1 is inherently good, and 1 is inherently bad. You are wrong, there are multiple sociological reasons for protests and riots.

So no, a rugby match does not cause a billion dollars worth of damage, trespass in the Capitol, or kill people... that is not fair to say.

But my initial comparison was simple, they were both acts of civil disobedience that spilled over, whether you agree with the cause or not (and I hold agreements and disagreements with both), both sent a message to the US government.

During the BLM protests, where do you believe the funding came from, where the pallets of bricks came from conveniently placed in major cities? Why do you think the Democrats all took a knee wearing African garb hahaha? Pressure, and the reality that this could escalate and hold them accountable. Do you believe Pelosi, Biden and Schumer really give 2 shits about the plight of Black Americans being harmed unlawfully by the police? They're the people who brazenly brag about writing the crime Bill, and we're part of the problem.

To reiterate my point, that you keep conveniently ignoring, people good, governments and politicians bad, and need to be held accountable. The French are far better than most at this, I'd love the UK to be more like them in that regard.

The point I'd make is that Jan 6th wasn't really an anti government act in that it was the guy at the very top of the government who caused it (let's not pretend it would still have happened if Trump hadn't repeatedly lied about the election).

Far from representing the power of the people against an overbearing government, it represented the power of a single autocrat to mobilise masses off the back of a lie. This is a tactic he still hangs over the heads of Republicans.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I mean they are the same, both stormed the Capitol, both were treated very differently by police...

Both were products of lock downs, and the frustrations of covid, both were misguided for different reasons, and yes both were affiliated with sitting presidents (although in BLMs case it was promoted by Obama, and used for political purposes by Biden, probably not a fair comparison). The difference between them in reality is you believe 1 is inherently good, and 1 is inherently bad. You are wrong, there are multiple sociological reasons for protests and riots.

So no, a rugby match does not cause a billion dollars worth of damage, trespass in the Capitol, or kill people... that is not fair to say.

But my initial comparison was simple, they were both acts of civil disobedience that spilled over, whether you agree with the cause or not (and I hold agreements and disagreements with both), both sent a message to the US government.

During the BLM protests, where do you believe the funding came from, where the pallets of bricks came from conveniently placed in major cities? Why do you think the Democrats all took a knee wearing African garb hahaha? Pressure, and the reality that this could escalate and hold them accountable. Do you believe Pelosi, Biden and Schumer really give 2 shits about the plight of Black Americans being harmed unlawfully by the police? They're the people who brazenly brag about writing the crime Bill, and we're part of the problem.

To reiterate my point, that you keep conveniently ignoring, people good, governments and politicians bad, and need to be held accountable. The French are far better than most at this, I'd love the UK to be more like them in that regard.

Do you know anything about the fake elector plot at all? Like anything?

 

[McTallshort]

Trump has passed an executive order demanding criminal investigations into former staffers who spoke out against him and has publicly called then traitors and accused them if treason...

This is added on top of chucking people out of the country without any due process, launching targeted attacks on law firms that represented people he didn't like and various other acts that are straight out of an autocratic playbook.

The USA could be sleepwalking into a very dangerous situation in which everything is dismissed until the whole legal and political process has been neutered when it comes to Trump.

Isn't that nearly everyone in his last administration?

 

[dirty harry]

The point I'd make is that Jan 6th wasn't really an anti government act in that it was the guy at the very top of the government who caused it (let's not pretend it would still have happened if Trump hadn't repeatedly lied about the election).

Far from representing the power of the people against an overbearing government, it represented the power of a single autocrat to mobilise masses off the back of a lie. This is a tactic he still hangs over the heads of Republicans.

The other way to say that is that they were protesting over what they believed was a corrupt democratic process and they believed they were on the side of the constitution and were fighting for the people.

Now we can agree to the level of Trump's involvement in this, and the level of Democrat and anti Trump media involvement, infact we would probably differ slightly, but to put your perception of their intent on them isn't fair is it.

People made the arguments that BLM was an Obama supporting organisation that was run by communists and popped up every 4 years around election time to promote Democrat candidates. People also perceive the BLM protests as mass violent movements designed to tear the fabric of capitalism down (the founders partly lol) however I also don't thinknit would be fair to label that.

I'd love some of you guys to hold more nuanced views of social issues, instead of just labelling your teams good and their team bad. That's literally the intent I'm fighting against. Nuance is a real thing!

 

[Flankers' paradise]

I don't think anyone is really not being nuanced, just that whenever anyone says anything even slightly critical of trump you start bleating about bias

 

[Saintjay]

It did work though lol. That was more of a frying pan into the fire situation though wasn't it?

I'm not big on it but isn't that the ending of the monarchy, beginning of Islam Republic?

Doesn't fit the narrative of people rising up is for the good of us all.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The other way to say that is that they were protesting over what they believed was a corrupt democratic process and they believed they were on the side of the constitution and were fighting for the people.

Now we can agree to the level of Trump's involvement in this, and the level of Democrat and anti Trump media involvement, infact we would probably differ slightly, but to put your perception of their intent on them isn't fair is it.

People made the arguments that BLM was an Obama supporting organisation that was run by communists and popped up every 4 years around election time to promote Democrat candidates. People also perceive the BLM protests as mass violent movements designed to tear the fabric of capitalism down (the founders partly lol) however I also don't thinknit would be fair to label that.

I'd love some of you guys to hold more nuanced views of social issues, instead of just labelling your teams good and their team bad. That's literally the intent I'm fighting against. Nuance is a real thing!

They may have believed that but there was absolutely zero reason to believe that other than Trump told them it was the case.

I said nothing of intent other than they were acting on the whims of an autocrat. Had Trump not lied and had simply accepted the result as all other presidents have, January 6th simply would not have happened. It wasn't anti authority or holding government to account at all, it was pro authority and specifically rallying against the primary means to hold government to account.

I think look at the difference between the cause and the stated goals of BLM and Jan 6th, they are not similar. If BLM got what they had demanded, it would be things like action against police immunity, action against police brutality and various other things. The violence was reprehensible but was not the means unto itself in which those goals were to be achieved. With Jan 6th, the violence WAS the band's into and of itself to achieve the goal, and that goal was subverting the entire electoral process. Imagine both sides got their core demands, one would see action taken to at least attempt to reduce racism and hold police accountable, the other would have seen the end of democracy. These are very different goals.

Please stop pretending you are the only one who sees nuance. Nuance also doesn't mean claiming both sides are equal or that any 2 events are equal, that isn't nuance at all. The only comparison between BLM and Jan 6th is that both were events of mass social upheaval. The cause, lead up, social context and desired results were extremely different.

Jan 6th cannot be portrayed as anti authority because it wasn't at all.

Yes Democrats jumped on the BLM bandwagon but they weren't the cause, with Jan 6th Trump was the primary cause. He didn't follow a movement that had already started, he was the one that started it, actively and repeatedly fanned the flames and drove the situation all for his personal gain.

I'm not defending the violence, looting and hypocrisy of BLM but I am arguing the 2 were not the same. the grievances involved in BLM are real, the ones behind Jan 6 were entirely fabricated.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I don't think anyone is really not being nuanced, just that whenever anyone says anything even slightly critical of trump you start bleating about bias

The only one lacking nuance is Harry with his insistence of comparing a global protest movement against a president instigating an insurrection to delay the peaceful transfer of power in order to install fake electors to overturn the legitimate result of an election.

 

[Saintjay]

They may have believed that but there was absolutely zero reason to believe that other than Trump told them it was the case.

I said nothing of intent other than they were acting on the whims of an autocrat. Had Trump not lied and had simply accepted the result as all other presidents have, January 6th simply would not have happened. It wasn't anti authority or holding government to account at all, it was pro authority and specifically rallying against the primary means to hold government to account.

I think look at the difference between the cause and the stated goals of BLM and Jan 6th, they are not similar. If BLM got what they had demanded, it would be things like action against police immunity, action against police brutality and various other things. The violence was reprehensible but was not the means unto itself in which those goals were to be achieved. With Jan 6th, the violence WAS the band's into and of itself to achieve the goal, and that goal was subverting the entire electoral process. Imagine both sides got their core demands, one would see action taken to at least attempt to reduce racism and hold police accountable, the other would have seen the end of democracy. These are very different goals.

Please stop pretending you are the only one who sees nuance. Nuance also doesn't mean claiming both sides are equal or that any 2 events are equal, that isn't nuance at all. The only comparison between BLM and Jan 6th is that both were events of mass social upheaval. The cause, lead up, social context and desired results were extremely different.

Jan 6th cannot be portrayed as anti authority because it wasn't at all.

Yes Democrats jumped on the BLM bandwagon but they weren't the cause, with Jan 6th Trump was the primary cause. He didn't follow a movement that had already started, he was the one that started it, actively and repeatedly fanned the flames and drove the situation all for his personal gain.

I'm not defending the violence, looting and hypocrisy of BLM but I am arguing the 2 were not the same. the grievances involved in BLM are real, the ones behind Jan 6 were entirely fabricated.

Using violence to achieve political means. Tick.
Loud and disruptive protest. Tick
Risk of losing your life to achieve your goals. Tick.

Damm those pesky suffragettes no different to the Jan 6th rioters in Harry's world.

 

[dirty harry]

I said nothing of intent other than they were acting on the whims of an autocrat. Had Trump not lied and had simply accepted the result as all other presidents have, January 6th simply would not have happened. It wasn't anti authority or holding government to account at all, it was pro authority and specifically rallying against the primary means to hold government to account.

I think look at the difference between the cause and the stated goals of BLM and Jan 6th, they are not similar. If BLM got what they had demanded, it would be things like action against police immunity, action against police brutality and various other things. The violence was reprehensible but was not the means unto itself in which those goals were to be achieved. With Jan 6th, the violence WAS the band's into and of itself to achieve the goal, and that goal was subverting the entire electoral process. Imagine both sides got their core demands, one would see action taken to at least attempt to reduce racism and hold police accountable, the other would have seen the end of democracy. These are very different goals.

Please stop pretending you are the only one who sees nuance. Nuance also doesn't mean claiming both sides are equal or that any 2 events are equal, that isn't nuance at all. The only comparison between BLM and Jan 6th is that both were events of mass social upheaval. The cause, lead up, social context and desired results were extremely different.

Jan 6th cannot be portrayed as anti authority because it wasn't at all.

Yes Democrats jumped on the BLM bandwagon but they weren't the cause, with Jan 6th Trump was the primary cause. He didn't follow a movement that had already started, he was the one that started it, actively and repeatedly fanned the flames and drove the situation all for his personal gain.

I'm not defending the violence, looting and hypocrisy of BLM but I am arguing the 2 were not the same. the grievances involved in BLM are real, the ones behind Jan 6 were entirely fabricated.

Mate with the greatest of respect, as soon as you claimed BLM wanted 'action against police brutality, and immunity' I stopped reading because you clearly havnt read the official BLM page or manifesto. If that what they were after in total, I don't think theres a person alive who would disagree, but their official actions are listed as:

- The abolition of the police force, prisons and any form of punishment.

- The destruction of the nuclear family

- The acquisition of private property from the 'privaliged'

Now I'm not sure if you agree with these requirements, I suppose there could be an argument for part of each, but they are pretty extreme, and although we're posted on their website, I'm sure they've softened those stances in writing by now.

I get it, I'm not blaming you for not knowing the founders goals, they got a lot of heat over it, as did they for the financial gain the 3 of them got (I'm not sure if anyone watched the sit down video they made in their newly acquired mansion).

But again, I've never claimed that Jan 6 and BLM were equal, I just don't think like that, but there are 100% similarities in how they came about, and empathetic ways of understanding mind sets in both groups of supporters.

1 is not good, and 1 is not bad, its ignorant or nefarious to say that.

Again, despite how many people try to make the claim, I am pro people, not pro MSGA or anti BLM, needing a bad guy to vilify isn't going to change that fact lol.

 

[dirty harry]

I don't think anyone is really not being nuanced, just that whenever anyone says anything even slightly critical of trump you start bleating about bias

Nope, I let a lot of valid criticisms go, and I've criticised him constantly, you just choose not to see it lol

 

[McTallshort]

The only one lacking nuance is Harry with his insistence of comparing a global protest movement against a president instigating an insurrection to delay the peaceful transfer of power in order to install fake electors to overturn the legitimate result of an election.

Again. He probably doesn't believe that he just wants to argue

 

[dirty harry]

Using violence to achieve political means. Tick.
Loud and disruptive protest. Tick
Risk of losing your life to achieve your goals. Tick.

Damm those pesky suffragettes no different to the Jan 6th rioters in Harry's world.

I'm confused...

Are you claiming BLM, Jan 6 or sufferegettes were terrorists, based on these terrorist criteria?

Why do you think that terror components absolutely describe Jan 6, BLM and Suffreggette movements? Violence for apolitical cause, spreading fear, structure etc?

Come on, we are on the cusp of a breakthrough, the US government deems these things terroristic because... to keep the masses from rising up maybe?

But yes, I would put Black Friday in a similar mould of civil unrest, alongside Jan 6 and BLM. You understand there can ve very much similarities toward actions despite, outcomes, escelation or intents being different?

 

[McTallshort]

US fires Greenland military base chief for 'undermining' JD Vance

The US military said it had lost confidence in Colonel Susannah Meyers' ability to lead.

www.bbc.co.uk

What a massive, insecure little child JD Vance is.

 

[ncurd]

US fires Greenland military base chief for 'undermining' JD Vance

The US military said it had lost confidence in Colonel Susannah Meyers' ability to lead.

www.bbc.co.uk

What a massive, insecure little child JD Vance is.

The true heir to Trump

 

[McTallshort]

The true heir to Trump

Sacking military leaders because they are not loyal enough. Proper banana republic ****

 

[Which Tyler]

the official BLM page or manifesto

Oh gods, I can't stop laughing

 

[Amiga500]

I think it's a good question, how does China lose a trade war with the USA?

Maybe the question should be - how does China most effectively win a trade war with the USA?

You'd imagine seeing the yen replacing the dollar as the main currency of international trade would rank fairly high up there?


Trump was on about Zelensky playing cards. Well now the orange dumb **** has bet the house when he's holding a 2 of clubs and 7 of diamonds.

 

[McTallshort]

Maybe the question should be - how does China most effectively win a trade war with the USA?

You'd imagine seeing the yen replacing the dollar as the main currency of international trade would rank fairly high up there?


Trump was on about Zelensky playing cards. Well now the orange dumb **** has bet the house when he's holding a 2 of clubs and 7 of diamonds.

Art of the deal