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Yet more poor inconsistenmt and bias refereeing by Wayne Barnes

Gherkin1971

Academy Player
Joined
Mar 14, 2015
Messages
2
Hello Everyone,

As always this weekend’s rugby displayed that the love of the game is inexorably tangled up in the ebb and flow of varyingly accurate/inaccurate successful/less successful human decisions. I don't know about you but typically such decisions usually just add fuel to my passion and resolve to belligerently and stubbornly invest ever higher levels of heart/souls/mind support for my team to win.

Unfortunately based on the quality and consistency of refereeing decisions making displayed in this weekend's Wales/Ireland match it seems now that players, in addition to taking on the official RBS rules, have to also make not inconsiderable allowances to a set of markedly divergent and inconsistent whims, perspectives and so potentially biased interpretations of whatever rugby referee turns up on the day. Sorry I know this sounds like a rant against referees generally - who I full-heatedly recognise as having a thankless and difficult job - honestly I don't think it is a rant except in the particular case of Wayne Barnes.

Typically referees like most of us have good and bad days and as stated previously I would suggest that this usually just all adds to the visceral, passionate sense of indignation, experienced glory, satisfaction and despair that naturally follows from committing our of pride, hope and loyalty to our various local and national teams.

What I think is worth drawing your attention to is consistently (or even just perceived as consistently) poor refereeing. I would suggest that when all our hearts collectively sink on hearing that a particular referee is facilitating fair play for our particular fixture - surely something is wrong.

Today, despite being ENTIRELY dispassionate about the result of the Ireland/Wales match I kept thinking - "This isn't about who plays best in a game of rugby - it is about what Wayne Barnes wants - his view, his opinions, his whims, his prejudices, the perceived past slights, flatteries he has been subject to ... Wayne ...... Wayne ...... WAYNE.

Thankfully from England's perspective - Wayne seems able to hold a grudge for at least a fortnight (many thanks to whomever said that this refereeing appointment would be free from bias - we owe you!) - so was happy to punish the Irish in the last 10 minutes or so to ensure they didn't win. I really do hope they challenge the decisions he made - not to change the output of the game really - just to hold him to account. I think the funniest thing is even he doesn't seem to see any consistent bias in his decisions making. Please tell me there is an independent body assigned to review bias in rugby refereeing so that obvious fraudulent betting options are curtailed!!

Whilst I am happy that Wayne's god complex meant Ireland's last 5 minute performance was nullified - given his ego-sensitive action and history e.g. see Dylan Hartley. I am worried that unless his ability comes under appropriate levels of scrutiny that all players -

- A. Will be so nervous to actually play rugby rather than fall foul of Wayne's disapproval - that it will ruin it for us in the stands
- B. That any result will be so bias by Way’s view's of what good "is" that the result is only valid in his mind and so all competitions he is involved with will be seen as pointless and without honour
- C. That so many start/stop/penalties will be awarded that everyone will switch off from the sport or just wish that WB would let the game flow without his ego getting in the way

At the end of the day when someone’s judgement is repeatedly REPEATEDLY questioned and is seen as a barrier to sporting endeavour and a great sporting occasion rather than something that upholds "fair play" supports sporting prowess SURELY their role or at least their ability to operate as an independent facilitator on such occasions must be questioned.

Rugby is about character, passion as skill - and referees are there to help those qualities come to the fore not punish players or the energy in a game. Can I suggest it’s all about moderation and making sure us punters are allowed to witness the sporting event we paid to see. Sure rules must be observed - but not in a way that makes every dread when a particular referee's involvement - especially one like Wayne that appears to 0offer such an insecure over-officious approach. If everyone hearts sink ever time WB is put in charge - and especially based on his past impact and reputation - lets recognise that Wayne is (at the very least) ruining our enjoyment of rugby. As a psychologist I can tell you that if left unchecked he won't wake up to the fact that us supporters, the players and the sport itself are his customers and he is there to facilitate the spectacle - not legislate against and punish those daring enough to misinterpret his perspective.

In summary - basically please lets stop this man (as well meaning as he may be) getting in the way of us feeling the end result achieved by both team reflected there passion and abilities rather than Wayne's view of how naughty they had been in his mind.

Please stop this oddity and anomaly from ruining our national love of the best game in the world


Yours

An England/Ireland/Scottish/Irish (to a lesser extent French ...... or to be fair Italian) rugby passionate devotee



PS So .....................What are our next steps in pursuing WB's removal as a professional rugby referee (post England winning the 2015 6 nations obviously)?
 
Tl;dr we lost so blame it on the English

Why would we blame it only one you? Can't we blame it on any other country? The world doesn't revolve around London mate.

Arrogant ****.






On a sidenote, where did you get the I love Kelly Kapowski vest? Want.
 
Seemed to me that he applied the laws. Not his fault everyone is so used to cheating it took them 20-30 minutes to understand.

Don't seem to recall a single time that the replay was shown that anyone could say "Actually he was wrong there." and be sure about it. Once the two teams actually started going for the breakdown fairly, and not slowing the ball, we had some great rugby.
 
Hello Everyone,

As always this weekend’s rugby displayed that the love of the game is inexorably tangled up in the ebb and flow of varyingly accurate/inaccurate successful/less successful human decisions. I don't know about you but typically such decisions usually just add fuel to my passion and resolve to belligerently and stubbornly invest ever higher levels of heart/souls/mind support for my team to win.

Unfortunately based on the quality and consistency of refereeing decisions making displayed in this weekend's Wales/Ireland match it seems now that players, in addition to taking on the official RBS rules, have to also make not inconsiderable allowances to a set of markedly divergent and inconsistent whims, perspectives and so potentially biased interpretations of whatever rugby referee turns up on the day. Sorry I know this sounds like a rant against referees generally - who I full-heatedly recognise as having a thankless and difficult job - honestly I don't think it is a rant except in the particular case of Wayne Barnes.

Typically referees like most of us have good and bad days and as stated previously I would suggest that this usually just all adds to the visceral, passionate sense of indignation, experienced glory, satisfaction and despair that naturally follows from committing our of pride, hope and loyalty to our various local and national teams.

What I think is worth drawing your attention to is consistently (or even just perceived as consistently) poor refereeing. I would suggest that when all our hearts collectively sink on hearing that a particular referee is facilitating fair play for our particular fixture - surely something is wrong.

Today, despite being ENTIRELY dispassionate about the result of the Ireland/Wales match I kept thinking - "This isn't about who plays best in a game of rugby - it is about what Wayne Barnes wants - his view, his opinions, his whims, his prejudices, the perceived past slights, flatteries he has been subject to ... Wayne ...... Wayne ...... WAYNE.

Thankfully from England's perspective - Wayne seems able to hold a grudge for at least a fortnight (many thanks to whomever said that this refereeing appointment would be free from bias - we owe you!) - so was happy to punish the Irish in the last 10 minutes or so to ensure they didn't win. I really do hope they challenge the decisions he made - not to change the output of the game really - just to hold him to account. I think the funniest thing is even he doesn't seem to see any consistent bias in his decisions making. Please tell me there is an independent body assigned to review bias in rugby refereeing so that obvious fraudulent betting options are curtailed!!

Whilst I am happy that Wayne's god complex meant Ireland's last 5 minute performance was nullified - given his ego-sensitive action and history e.g. see Dylan Hartley. I am worried that unless his ability comes under appropriate levels of scrutiny that all players -

- A. Will be so nervous to actually play rugby rather than fall foul of Wayne's disapproval - that it will ruin it for us in the stands
- B. That any result will be so bias by Way’s view's of what good "is" that the result is only valid in his mind and so all competitions he is involved with will be seen as pointless and without honour
- C. That so many start/stop/penalties will be awarded that everyone will switch off from the sport or just wish that WB would let the game flow without his ego getting in the way

At the end of the day when someone’s judgement is repeatedly REPEATEDLY questioned and is seen as a barrier to sporting endeavour and a great sporting occasion rather than something that upholds "fair play" supports sporting prowess SURELY their role or at least their ability to operate as an independent facilitator on such occasions must be questioned.

Rugby is about character, passion as skill - and referees are there to help those qualities come to the fore not punish players or the energy in a game. Can I suggest it’s all about moderation and making sure us punters are allowed to witness the sporting event we paid to see. Sure rules must be observed - but not in a way that makes every dread when a particular referee's involvement - especially one like Wayne that appears to 0offer such an insecure over-officious approach. If everyone hearts sink ever time WB is put in charge - and especially based on his past impact and reputation - lets recognise that Wayne is (at the very least) ruining our enjoyment of rugby. As a psychologist I can tell you that if left unchecked he won't wake up to the fact that us supporters, the players and the sport itself are his customers and he is there to facilitate the spectacle - not legislate against and punish those daring enough to misinterpret his perspective.

In summary - basically please lets stop this man (as well meaning as he may be) getting in the way of us feeling the end result achieved by both team reflected there passion and abilities rather than Wayne's view of how naughty they had been in his mind.

Please stop this oddity and anomaly from ruining our national love of the best game in the world


Yours

An England/Ireland/Scottish/Irish (to a lesser extent French ...... or to be fair Italian) rugby passionate devotee



PS So .....................What are our next steps in pursuing WB's removal as a professional rugby referee (post England winning the 2015 6 nations obviously)?

We are all entitled to our opinions and you have expressed yours and I thought I would express mine.......

What a load of rubbish all that is!!!!
 
Eh can you point to several moments where his is interpretation was wrong at different points in the match.

The opening 10 was him giving the impression he would be a hard ass at the breakdown. Both teams then behaved themselves completely and he let minor stuff slide. However as most breakdowns didn't have players playing silly buggers we got quick ball. Barnes actually facilitated a great game of Rugby.
 
Yeah, this is BS. The only bad calls the man made that I can remember was Wales getting away with blatantly diving into rucks to slow them down when Ireland were camped on their line and that last scrum. I'm sure decisions went against the Welsh too but I fail to notice the side I support infringing when they get away with it!

The scrum at the end was pretty pathetic though but Barnes will never make a big call to determine the outcome of a game of rugby late in the game after his cock up in this fixture three years ago. Barnes had a swing of three points in this game if anything, standard for a passionate home crowd, and Wales won deservedly. On to next week to see who can stick the most points on Italy and Scotland over the championship...
 
Hello Everyone,

As always this weekend's rugby displayed that the love of the game is inexorably tangled up in the ebb and flow of varyingly accurate/inaccurate successful/less successful human decisions. I don't know about you but typically such decisions usually just add fuel to my passion and resolve to belligerently and stubbornly invest ever higher levels of heart/souls/mind support for my team to win.

Unfortunately based on the quality and consistency of refereeing decisions making displayed in this weekend's Wales/Ireland match it seems now that players, in addition to taking on the official RBS rules, have to also make not inconsiderable allowances to a set of markedly divergent and inconsistent whims, perspectives and so potentially biased interpretations of whatever rugby referee turns up on the day. Sorry I know this sounds like a rant against referees generally - who I full-heatedly recognise as having a thankless and difficult job - honestly I don't think it is a rant except in the particular case of Wayne Barnes.

Typically referees like most of us have good and bad days and as stated previously I would suggest that this usually just all adds to the visceral, passionate sense of indignation, experienced glory, satisfaction and despair that naturally follows from committing our of pride, hope and loyalty to our various local and national teams.

What I think is worth drawing your attention to is consistently (or even just perceived as consistently) poor refereeing. I would suggest that when all our hearts collectively sink on hearing that a particular referee is facilitating fair play for our particular fixture - surely something is wrong.

Today, despite being ENTIRELY dispassionate about the result of the Ireland/Wales match I kept thinking - "This isn't about who plays best in a game of rugby - it is about what Wayne Barnes wants - his view, his opinions, his whims, his prejudices, the perceived past slights, flatteries he has been subject to ... Wayne ...... Wayne ...... WAYNE.

Thankfully from England's perspective - Wayne seems able to hold a grudge for at least a fortnight (many thanks to whomever said that this refereeing appointment would be free from bias - we owe you!) - so was happy to punish the Irish in the last 10 minutes or so to ensure they didn't win. I really do hope they challenge the decisions he made - not to change the output of the game really - just to hold him to account. I think the funniest thing is even he doesn't seem to see any consistent bias in his decisions making. Please tell me there is an independent body assigned to review bias in rugby refereeing so that obvious fraudulent betting options are curtailed!!

Whilst I am happy that Wayne's god complex meant Ireland's last 5 minute performance was nullified - given his ego-sensitive action and history e.g. see Dylan Hartley. I am worried that unless his ability comes under appropriate levels of scrutiny that all players -

- A. Will be so nervous to actually play rugby rather than fall foul of Wayne's disapproval - that it will ruin it for us in the stands
- B. That any result will be so bias by Way's view's of what good "is" that the result is only valid in his mind and so all competitions he is involved with will be seen as pointless and without honour
- C. That so many start/stop/penalties will be awarded that everyone will switch off from the sport or just wish that WB would let the game flow without his ego getting in the way

At the end of the day when someone's judgement is repeatedly REPEATEDLY questioned and is seen as a barrier to sporting endeavour and a great sporting occasion rather than something that upholds "fair play" supports sporting prowess SURELY their role or at least their ability to operate as an independent facilitator on such occasions must be questioned.

Rugby is about character, passion as skill - and referees are there to help those qualities come to the fore not punish players or the energy in a game. Can I suggest it's all about moderation and making sure us punters are allowed to witness the sporting event we paid to see. Sure rules must be observed - but not in a way that makes every dread when a particular referee's involvement - especially one like Wayne that appears to 0offer such an insecure over-officious approach. If everyone hearts sink ever time WB is put in charge - and especially based on his past impact and reputation - lets recognise that Wayne is (at the very least) ruining our enjoyment of rugby. As a psychologist I can tell you that if left unchecked he won't wake up to the fact that us supporters, the players and the sport itself are his customers and he is there to facilitate the spectacle - not legislate against and punish those daring enough to misinterpret his perspective.

In summary - basically please lets stop this man (as well meaning as he may be) getting in the way of us feeling the end result achieved by both team reflected there passion and abilities rather than Wayne's view of how naughty they had been in his mind.

Please stop this oddity and anomaly from ruining our national love of the best game in the world


Yours

An England/Ireland/Scottish/Irish (to a lesser extent French ...... or to be fair Italian) rugby passionate devotee



PS So .....................What are our next steps in pursuing WB's removal as a professional rugby referee (post England winning the 2015 6 nations obviously)?

You lost get over it. I also think you are an old poster (Simon) with a new name
 
If the op, thinks he can do better then maybe he should take up the whistle and give it ago.
 
Barnes is not the whole problem. It's the standards of the referees, which is all different. If refs all refereed the same we wouldn't have these problems.
 
Seemed to me that he applied the laws. Not his fault everyone is so used to cheating it took them 20-30 minutes to understand.

Don't seem to recall a single time that the replay was shown that anyone could say "Actually he was wrong there." and be sure about it. Once the two teams actually started going for the breakdown fairly, and not slowing the ball, we had some great rugby.

THIS....

We are all entitled to our opinions and you have expressed yours and I thought I would express mine.......

What a load of rubbish all that is!!!!

THIS....

Eh can you point to several moments where his is interpretation was wrong at different points in the match.

The opening 10 was him giving the impression he would be a hard ass at the breakdown. Both teams then behaved themselves completely and he let minor stuff slide. However as most breakdowns didn't have players playing silly buggers we got quick ball. Barnes actually facilitated a great game of Rugby.

and THIS....

I have no dog in this fight (except I don't much like Barnes as a referee) but I thought he was pretty damned good in this game. He set his stall out early, Wales learned 12 points quicker than Ireland did, and ultimately, that is what cost the Irish in the end!!
 
I think he rode Ireland again. I'll have a look later on in the week. What I saw yesterday was him giving Wales 2 or 3 soft penalties to go 12 ahead. Ireland had the dominant scrum and were moving forward but Wales got a penalty and scored another 3 points from that. That was when Wales were down to 14.

Ireland's superior scrum was completely nullified by Barnes. Samson Lee got injured badly in a scrum which Barnes just looked at. The scrum collapsed but no Ireland penalty.

But what boils my p!as about him is when Ireland were attacking - and they were for the majority of the game - he wasn't at all pedantic. Different rules applied.

Then we had that ending.

His history of Ireland matches and Walshes withdrawal for business commitments is very dodgy to me. Ireland's win loss record with him is worse than any other ref by far. But it has turned out great for the tournament and Barnes' own country , England.

I'm expecting the usual 'you sound bitter' comments but I'm not. I feel Ireland were again on the wrong end of Barnes calls. He certainly didn't have a "great game" ! I've said it all time time that refs make mistakes etc but he isnt a normal ref. The only one to be called a fcuking cheat on the field too!
 
Never thought I'd see an Irishman sticking up for/agreeing with Dylan Hartley.
 
I think he rode Ireland again. I'll have a look later on in the week. What I saw yesterday was him giving Wales 2 or 3 soft penalties to go 12 ahead. Ireland had the dominant scrum and were moving forward but Wales got a penalty and scored another 3 points from that. That was when Wales were down to 14.

Ireland's superior scrum was completely nullified by Barnes. Samson Lee got injured badly in a scrum which Barnes just looked at. The scrum collapsed but no Ireland penalty.

But what boils my p!as about him is when Ireland were attacking - and they were for the majority of the game - he wasn't at all pedantic. Different rules applied.

Then we had that ending.

His history of Ireland matches and Walshes withdrawal for business commitments is very dodgy to me. Ireland's win loss record with him is worse than any other ref by far. But it has turned out great for the tournament and Barnes' own country , England.

I'm expecting the usual 'you sound bitter' comments but I'm not. I feel Ireland were again on the wrong end of Barnes calls. He certainly didn't have a "great game" ! I've said it all time time that refs make mistakes etc but he isnt a normal ref. The only one to be called a fcuking cheat on the field too!

Perhaps you didn't notice the speed and effort Wales were putting in to get the tackler out the way, to not compete for the ball if they'd put hands on the ground, and in general, staying exceptionally clean. They didn't cheat, what do you want him to do?

Barnes has always been pedantic, and more often than not, correct. When sides play fairly we see 30+ phases at high speed (and little invention unfortunately), it just takes them a while to realise they need to play fair.

And of the two sides, one received 2 yellow cards, had a penalty try given against them, and conceded 13 penalties compared to 11. The other side lost the game by their own means.
 
I think he rode Ireland again. I'll have a look later on in the week. What I saw yesterday was him giving Wales 2 or 3 soft penalties to go 12 ahead. Ireland had the dominant scrum and were moving forward but Wales got a penalty and scored another 3 points from that. That was when Wales were down to 14.

Ireland's superior scrum was completely nullified by Barnes. Samson Lee got injured badly in a scrum which Barnes just looked at. The scrum collapsed but no Ireland penalty.

But what boils my p!as about him is when Ireland were attacking - and they were for the majority of the game - he wasn't at all pedantic. Different rules applied.

Then we had that ending.

His history of Ireland matches and Walshes withdrawal for business commitments is very dodgy to me. Ireland's win loss record with him is worse than any other ref by far. But it has turned out great for the tournament and Barnes' own country , England.

I'm expecting the usual 'you sound bitter' comments but I'm not. I feel Ireland were again on the wrong end of Barnes calls. He certainly didn't have a "great game" ! I've said it all time time that refs make mistakes etc but he isnt a normal ref. The only one to be called a fcuking cheat on the field too!

Having rewatched the game, i noticed a lot of decisions going against or for Ireland which were dubious as well. During the long passage of Irish pressure, i counted at least 2 knock ons by Murray which were not picked up. Some things went against both teams equally. I found it frustrating that Barnes didn't even notice that Webb had been kneed in the back, looked very dangerous going knees first into a man on the ground.

Wales were the better team yesterday, by a good margin.

Ireland also had more penalties to Wales', and no yellow cards to 2. As Raggs said.

The sour taste will dissipate soon.
 

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