World Top 10's!

[big ginger 8]

Close enough... No need for pedantry.

It's not really at all not pedantry either. Saying they're poor is flat out saying they're not good. Saying they're not up there is saying they're just not as good as the likes of Ayerza and Healy's skills.

 

[chippieolamus]

It's not really at all not pedantry either. Saying they're poor is flat out saying they're not good. Saying they're not up there is saying they're just not as good as the likes of Ayerza and Healy's skills.

Ok, fair enough. What core skills do you think he's not good enough in to compete with Slipper, Jenkins and McGrath (who were, I think, the players that you were originally alluding to)? Not necessarily disagreeing, just wondering.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I can sincerely appreciate the difficulty in following rugby in a different hemisphere, but if you've failed to hear North's name you haven't been listening hard enough. You'd be stunned if I didn't name Savea because I'd never heard of him; this is comparable.

Not trying to be a jerk about this - just trying to put things into context for you.



Smith would be fantastic for England - a sniping scrum-half that can actually distribute is what we've been crying out for since, well, forever. I wouldn't say no to Murray but I'd take Smith first. Think Webb shows that Smith would do very well for Wales too.

I think it's what they want but not what they need. They aren't blessed with 10's who can control a game at the moment and Murray is proven to be able to do it at 9. If you look at the way Ireland beat them earlier this year, a Murray would be better equipped to stop that than a Smith in my opinion. Wales are similar in that they'd be better off grinding out victories on a consistent basis with controlled rugby than playing a more traditional game with a traditional 9.

No one is going to turn down either player but I think teams with more limited 10's and/or centres would go with Murray whereas the rest would go with Smith given the choice.

 

[Kiwi_]

Thankfully I didn't say his core skills were poor then.



Knew I was forgetting a French prop, Ben Arous goes straight on to the list, Aguero is a maybe and I had thought of Debaty but just don't rate him as much.



There's not being able to keep up with NH rugby and then there's only paying any attention to domestic rugby. Both Bowe and North are world rugby stars. They have 118 combined caps. 8 of them for the Lions. I don't know how you couldn't know who North is even if you only paid a cursory glance to the last Lions tour. They've also both played against NZ a number of times of course.

Mitchell was most definitely in the frame for best winger at one stage around 2010. I remember in the Super Rugby before he suffered his horrible leg injury, that despite only playing about a third of the year he was still leading the tackle break count going into the final week or so and still finished 2nd overall.

I understand it might be a shock, but we just don't get the exposure out here to these players and they have never stood out vs the All Blacks, players I remember from Wales is Halfpenny, Hook and Roberts, but to be honest the hype that surrounds these guys before going into the test match often lets me down when it's all done and dusted. Unless a player is on a superstar level, we don't hear about them out here, the average Kiwi follower would not know who North is, that's the honest truth. The Savea comparison doesn't work, because Savea plays for the All Blacks, not Wales, the All Blacks get constant exposure and have a massive following, Wales only a very moderate one outside of their domestic following and truth be told the only winger who holds a torch to any of the AB wingers over the last few years would be Habanna and he's one of the greatest wingers of all time, Mitchell isn't in the frame and that's from watching him for 10+ years and I generally give Aussie players credit where credit is due.

 

[Peat]

If 50+ test caps and a winning Lions tour by the age of 23 isn't superstar level, the term should be struck out from the OED as meaningless.

And outside of the NZ bubble, up here in the North, Wales get more exposure than NZ - hence my comparison. It does work, honest.

I mean, this is all slightly meaningless really, but even the most moderate exposure to NH rugby should have given you North's name, unless the commentators were speaking Welsh.

Also, while generally happy to agree that the NZ wingers haven't had many peers over the years, North would get AB caps. Probably a lot of them. That's not northern bias (if anything, he's Welsh...), he is simply a freak.

If nothing else, youtube his name, you'll while away a pleasant five minutes or so :lol:

 

[TobesHodges]

Number 8:

1) Sergio Parrise
2) Kieron Read
3) Duane Vermulean
4) Ben Morgan
5) Victor Vito
6) Louis Picamoles
7) Scott Higginbotham
8) Jamie Heaslip
9) Ita Vaea
10) Toby Falutua

Tough back end, B.Vunipola, Dave Denton, Willem Alberts, Jerome Kaino are all on bit of a par..

 

[Kiwi_]

Ahh yeah, I remember the guy. He's very good, awesome tackler and really quick with a good step. He sure would have got a lot of caps, ahead of Jane I think. But I honestly believe Naholo is the best winger in the world currently, it's a shame about his injury. He has such a complete skill set, also I wouldn't write Piutau off as a contender for the top spots, he has such an all round game and reads it like no other winger, similar to Ben Smith.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Smith > Murray. Youngs (on current form), Fotuali'i, Webb and perhaps Laidlaw also deserve to be in or around the top 10.

Fair shouts on the rest. Like I said I'd hate to seperate them. I think Murray and Smith have some space seperating them from the chasing pack. On Smith vs Murray I would take Murray personally as reflected in my post. I wouldn't say as stongly Murray > Smith though but for the teams I support I'd take Murray without hesitation because his kicking game reminds me of FdP at his best and would suit our style not too mention taking some kicking responsibility off of Pollard/Le Roux would be priceless for the Bokke.

 

[Peat]

Ahh yeah, I remember the guy. He's very good, awesome tackler and really quick with a good step. He sure would have got a lot of caps, ahead of Jane I think. But I honestly believe Naholo is the best winger in the world currently, it's a shame about his injury. He has such a complete skill set, also I wouldn't write Piutau off as a contender for the top spots, he has such an all round game and reads it like no other winger, similar to Ben Smith.

They're not outrageous calls at all, no. I haven't seen much of Naholo and prefer more proven players for these lists, but even Kiwi seems real excited about him. Piutau probably suffers in people's estimation because he hasn't played enough rugby against the European countries but he is an incredible talent and looks set to be one of the "breakouts" of the WC.

 

[Kiwi_]

They're not outrageous calls at all, no. I haven't seen much of Naholo and prefer more proven players for these lists, but even Kiwi seems real excited about him. Piutau probably suffers in people's estimation because he hasn't played enough rugby against the European countries but he is an incredible talent and looks set to be one of the "breakouts" of the WC.

Yeah, I actually think he's our biggest loss after the RWC, he's young and a rising star. I really hope Hansen can pull off a Naholo deal, but I think he feels we have future cover for him, with Skudder coming through, who can do the same job.

 

[chippieolamus]

Anyway, I'll try 13.

1) Conrad Smith
2) Kuridrani
3) Fekitoa
4) Joseph
5) Ashley-Cooper
6) Jonathan Davies
7) Tuilagi
8) Henshaw (when he plays there)
9) Kriel (not sure if he should be classified as a 13 or 15, could an SA fan tell me where he plays most?)
10) Bennett

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Anyway, I'll try 13.

1) Conrad Smith
2) Kuridrani
3) Fekitoa
4) Joseph
5) Ashley-Cooper
6) Jonathan Davies
7) Tuilagi
8) Henshaw (when he plays there)
9) Kriel (not sure if he should be classified as a 13 or 15, could an SA fan tell me where he plays most?)
10) Bennett

For SA he played 13 for both his tests and the majority of his junior carreer. For the Bulls he played at 15 exclusively this year. They have options in the centers but not so much at 15 so he might end up playing 15 for them again next year but with a new coach and signings still to be verified it might be Serfontein at 12 and Kriel at 13 for the Bulls net year. At least from a Bok perspective I hope that's the case and he doesn't end up with the 'utility' tag. So.. I think lets call him a 13 as that's where he plays at test level which I think this thread is kinda prioritizing?

Anyway, here's hoping he can continue to play the way he has in these last two tests for SA. If not for us finding a center pairing who seem to click out of nowhere I would've been somewhat depressed losing two tests at the death. The young lad even making your list after just 2 tests goes to show how good he has played. Really exciting stuff!

 

[TobesHodges]

Anyway, I'll try 13.

1) Conrad Smith
2) Kuridrani
3) Fekitoa
4) Joseph
5) Ashley-Cooper
6) Jonathan Davies
7) Tuilagi
8) Henshaw (when he plays there)
9) Kriel (not sure if he should be classified as a 13 or 15, could an SA fan tell me where he plays most?)
10) Bennett

I would have Matthieu Basteruad probs 5th in front of AAC.. Tuilagi above Davies.. Choosing inside centre would be interesting after #1 and 2..

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I would have Matthieu Basteruad probs 5th in front of AAC.. Tuilagi above Davies.. Choosing inside centre would be interesting after #1 and 2..

Who'd be 1 and 2 though in your mind? Nonu and SBW? I have no idea wh the current I/C is for both Ireland and England- is it as up in the air as it is for SA where we have to seperate JdV, Damian de Allende, Frans Steyn and Jan Serfontein. Any one of those could be our best on the day.

I suppose Fofana and Roberts need to be up there.. the Aussies have some classy options in Gits, Leali'ifano and Toomua.. I suppose a lot depends on who would play at 10 and 13..

I actually quite like Brad Barritt as a player but I am in two minds as to whether it might be safe mentioning that here. I certainly wouldn't have him top 5 but think he might crack top 10 for my money.

 

[ncurd]

Who'd be 1 and 2 though in your mind? Nonu and SBW? I have no idea wh the current I/C is for both Ireland and England- is it as up in the air as it is for SA where we have to seperate JdV, Damian de Allende, Frans Steyn and Jan Serfontein. Any one of those could be our best on the day.

I suppose Fofana and Roberts need to be up there.. the Aussies have some classy options in Gits, Leali'ifano and Toomua.. I suppose a lot depends on who would play at 10 and 13..

I actually quite like Brad Barritt as a player but I am in two minds as to whether it might be safe mentioning that here. I certainly wouldn't have him top 5 but think he might crack top 10 for my money.

Nobody in England does either...

 

[chippieolamus]

I would have Matthieu Basteruad probs 5th in front of AAC.. Tuilagi above Davies.. Choosing inside centre would be interesting after #1 and 2..

I just don't rate Bastareaud. Sure he's powerful, but he has nothing else to his game. At least Tuilagi and Kuridrani have other facets to their games besides being powerful.

Who'd be 1 and 2 though in your mind? Nonu and SBW? I have no idea wh the current I/C is for both Ireland and England- is it as up in the air as it is for SA where we have to seperate JdV, Damian de Allende, Frans Steyn and Jan Serfontein. Any one of those could be our best on the day.

I suppose Fofana and Roberts need to be up there.. the Aussies have some classy options in Gits, Leali'ifano and Toomua.. I suppose a lot depends on who would play at 10 and 13..

I actually quite like Brad Barritt as a player but I am in two minds as to whether it might be safe mentioning that here. I certainly wouldn't have him top 5 but think he might crack top 10 for my money.

Henshaw is the current 12 for Ireland, although you could argue he's more of a 13. I probably wouldn't have any England 12s on my list, they're all pretty average. In Barritt's case, I think much like Bastareaud he is a 'one trick pony', i.e. his defence is good but few other areas of his game are international standard, and that holds him back from being considered a top 10 inside centre for me.

I'd probably say something like this:
1) Nonu
2) SBW
3) De Allende
4) Giteau
5) Fofana
6) JDV
7) Toomua
8) Roberts
9) Henshaw
10) Leali'ifano

2 to 4 are very close and are interchangeable in my mind. I felt unsure on where to rate JDV, as I don't know whether he will be the same player after such a horrible injury.

 

[TobesHodges]

Who'd be 1 and 2 though in your mind? Nonu and SBW? I have no idea wh the current I/C is for both Ireland and England- is it as up in the air as it is for SA where we have to seperate JdV, Damian de Allende, Frans Steyn and Jan Serfontein. Any one of those could be our best on the day.

Yeah Nonu then SBW, I would have Barritt in there, probably he biggest defence at 12 in the world, don't get me wrong miles behind de Allende and Nonu, SBW etc in attack. but the best defence would have to put him up there..

 

[Kiwi_]

I just don't rate Bastareaud. Sure he's powerful, but he has nothing else to his game. At least Tuilagi and Kuridrani have other facets to their games besides being powerful.



Henshaw is the current 12 for Ireland, although you could argue he's more of a 13. I probably wouldn't have any England 12s on my list, they're all pretty average. In Barritt's case, I think much like Bastareaud he is a 'one trick pony', i.e. his defence is good but few other areas of his game are international standard, and that holds him back from being considered a top 10 inside centre for me.

I'd probably say something like this:
1) Nonu
2) SBW
3) De Allende
4) Giteau
5) Fofana
6) JDV
7) Toomua
8) Roberts
9) Henshaw
10) Leali'ifano

2 to 4 are very close and are interchangeable in my mind. I felt unsure on where to rate JDV, as I don't know whether he will be the same player after such a horrible injury.

SBW is overrated, good, does a job, but definitely overrated.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Inside Centre
1.Nonu
2.SBW
3.Giteau
4.Fofana
5.Roberts
6.De Allende
7.Dunbar
8.JDV
9.Toomua
10.Barritt

Screw it I'll put Barritt there, he never really lets people down and at club level he's brilliant for us.

 

[chippieolamus]

SBW is overrated, good, does a job, but definitely overrated.

I think where I've rated him is fair. He's behind Nonu, and I don't see much of a gap between him, Gits and De Allende. He's the best offloading centre in the world, and one of the best defensively, plus he's a strong runner who draws in defenders. I think he's rated about right by most people.