World Cup referees announced

[TommiG88]

Glen Jackson is a bloody good referee.

I have more concerns about Pascal Gauzere and Jérôme Garcès, both of whom I considered to be unpredictable loose cannons

I agree with this comment completely. Garces on his day is a very good ref but more often or not he gets swayed into decisions by the home crowd.

A lot of butt hurt fans on Facebook crying about Barnes.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I have a small amount of fear WRT poor policing of breakdowns from some of those (French in particular) names but my biggest concern is Shaun Veldsman at TMO. I've just seen too many questionable calls from him and communication is not his strong point where it is a critical requirement for the position of TMO IMO.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't really get the Barnes hate (other than from Kiwis )
For me he's one of the best in the business.


Gonna be interesting to see how JP Doyle goes on the biggest stage - he does have a few stinkers (who doesn't?) but his refereeing of the AP Semi-final (or was it just a final round game?) last season was the only game I can remember where a referee was universally praised, and one of the main talking points was how good he was :lol:

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'm more concerned that Jaco Peyper and Romain Poite made the cut...

Overall not a bad selection, I guess they went with the best of the worst...

 

[bw245]

I don't really get the Barnes hate (other than from Kiwis )
For me he's one of the best in the business.


Gonna be interesting to see how JP Doyle goes on the biggest stage - he does have a few stinkers (who doesn't?) but his refereeing of the AP Semi-final (or was it just a final round game?) last season was the only game I can remember where a referee was universally praised, and one of the main talking points was how good he was :lol:

I haven't been a fan of Barnes in years. The game is so stop&start when he is on the field. The game Ireland vs Wales this yeR. Again, Wales deserved the win 100%. Ireland weren't good enough that day, but you cannot deny that Barnes had a couple of dodgy calls, especially the very last one where he awarded Wales the penalty. However, while his calls aren't maybe the right ones, he is consistent, which is something we don't see a lot anymore. Although he is consistent in making bad calls.

 

[ncurd]

I haven't been a fan of Barnes in years. The game is so stop&start when he is on the field. The game Ireland vs Wales this yeR. Again, Wales deserved the win 100%. Ireland weren't good enough that day, but you cannot deny that Barnes had a couple of dodgy calls, especially the very last one where he awarded Wales the penalty. However, while his calls aren't maybe the right ones, he is consistent, which is something we don't see a lot anymore. Although he is consistent in making bad calls.

Without stirring this pot again too much regardless of your opinion of Barnes most refs are going to go that way towards the end of the match (Owens for example did a very similar thing in the England/France match).

Also while it may not have benefited Ireland due to time when teams were in the ascendency in that match his over officiating of the breakdown at the start of the match led to a better game and once players were seen in general to be making a real effort he let some stuff slide. It very much wasn't a start & stop match and was probably one of the best matches all tournament for a rugby fan, if Barnes was doing that it would of been terrible to watch.

Lets also not forget Wales had two yellow cards from Barnes.

I think Barnes was judges not to be good enough before the match by the Irish and when they lost it's mainly sour grapes. Fair enough if he's been poor in the past but that game he most certainly wasn't.

 

[bw245]

Without stirring this pot again too much regardless of your opinion of Barnes most refs are going to go that way towards the end of the match (Owens for example did a very similar thing in the England/France match).

Also while it may not have benefited Ireland due to time when teams were in the ascendency in that match his over officiating of the breakdown at the start of the match led to a better game and once players were seen in general to be making a real effort he let some stuff slide. It very much wasn't a start & stop match and was probably one of the best matches all tournament for a rugby fan, if Barnes was doing that it would of been terrible to watch.

Lets also not forget Wales had two yellow cards from Barnes.

I think Barnes was judges not to be good enough before the match by the Irish and when they lost it's mainly sour grapes. Fair enough if he's been poor in the past but that game he most certainly wasn't.

Let me reiterate. Barnes had a couple of dodgy calls which affected both sides, not just ireland. I for one certainly did not pre judge Barnes before the match, and I was actually a little happy that it was him and wasn't Steve Walsh reffing. However, he had bad calls which affected both teams. He also had some good ones. No sour grapes here. Wales deserved to win. They were 110% the better team. This match is just one example.
And just because Owens maybe have done something similar in the England /France match doesn't make it ok. That penalty is also questionable, although naturally I pretend that it isn't cause England would've won the 6 nations if it went the other way most likely. Each ref makes mistakes and this is because they're human, but Barnes is doing it a lot more often than not lately, to the point where even Joe Schmidt had to inquire about what actually happened in that last penalty (Wales Ireland) because he didn't understand. (Again, this doesn't mean ireland would've won the match if Barnes had called it the other way).

Owens also, according to me, allows a more free playing game. But we can all have our opinions.

Also, normally, people become patriotic about people from their own country representing at such a large stage like the World Cup. However, now, people are almost glad certain referees from their own country aren't eligible to referee their county's match. (Like George Clancy, who, like most agree, is not great).

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It's not a refs job to make the game a spectacle, it's his job to referee the game consistent with the rules. This isn't an easy job and most referees stay consistent with their own interpretations of the rules, Barnes on this occasion did not, reffing the first 20 minutes completely different to the following 60 at the breakdown. Did it affect the score? Yes. The result? Probably not. Good reffing performance? No.

 

[bw245]

One thing I do like about Barnes is that he has made an effort to learn French and tries to speak French to the players (I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up refereeing a lot of future French matches). People slagging him for that need to get a grip. It is hugely beneficial to the French players, who don't have great English. The referees should be made, in my opinion, learn French, Italian or Spanish. Especially the Italian players. They definitely do not understand half the things being said to them. The French officials know English, so the English speaking ones should know at least a little bit of French, Italian or even Spanish for the Argentinians. That is why Alain Roland reffed so many French matches, because he was able to make sure things were clear for both teams.

 

[goodNumber10]

The referees should be made, in my opinion, learn French, Italian or Spanish. Especially the Italian players. They definitely do not understand half the things being said to them. The French officials know English, so the English speaking ones should know at least a little bit of French, Italian or even Spanish for the Argentinians.

that's ridiculous.

So if you are an international quality ref but also a person who struggles to pick up a language you get excluded?

It's far better for an English speaker on the team to translate on behalf of the captain.

 

[bw245]

that's ridiculous.

So if you are a international quality ref but also a person who struggles to pick up a language you get excluded?

It's far better for an English speaker on the team to translate on behalf of the captain.

How is it ridiculous? You don't have to be fluent. But make an effort, like Barnes. Even if you're not naturally linguistic does t mean you can't make an effort. I speak both French and Italian, and I can tell you Barnes' French is nowhere near fluent, but it's the effort that counts. Imagine you were French or Italian, playing against Ireland or England or whoever in a 6 nations match, and you don't understand what the ref is saying, while the other team understands perfectly? Just to have Barnes saying little things in French means the players aren't always translating.
I do understand that the players will obviously know most terms from the ref in english. But it's little things like when the scrum collapses for the 10th time and the referee wants to have a word. Or when he's sin binning someone and a player may not understand why. You saw how much it is appreciated whenever Rolland refereed France. The French were much more vocal in those matches.
In short, in no way should you be fluent, but I think an effort should be made at least.

Edit - listen to what Rolland says here. http://youtu.be/hGXRjAGe5jA

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Beeb sports headlines are the worst:
"Rugby World Cup 2015: Nigel Owens named on referees' list"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/32216131

Yes, but this is the least surprising of the 12 or so referees selected!

Looking down the list, most of the referees have my head in hands for the way they refereee some aspects of the game - e.g the french referees and the breakdown.
But the fact that this is my reaction probably tells us more about the level of expectations on referees. Yes, there are some poor ones who shouldn't be top tier, but mostly we probably given them too much of a hard time, myself included.

 

[goodNumber10]

How is it ridiculous? You don't have to be fluent. But make an effort, like Barnes. Even if you're not naturally linguistic does t mean you can't make an effort. I speak both French and Italian, and I can tell you Barnes' French is nowhere near fluent, but it's the effort that counts. Imagine you were French or Italian, playing against Ireland or England or whoever in a 6 nations match, and you don't understand what the ref is saying, while the other team understands perfectly? Just to have Barnes saying little things in French means the players aren't always translating.
I do understand that the players will obviously know most terms from the ref in english. But it's little things like when the scrum collapses for the 10th time and the referee wants to have a word. Or when he's sin binning someone and a player may not understand why. You saw how much it is appreciated whenever Rolland refereed France. The French were much more vocal in those matches.
In short, in no way should you be fluent, but I think an effort should be made at least.

Edit - listen to what Rolland says here. http://youtu.be/hGXRjAGe5jA

I also speak with some experience here having lived and played in France for 8 years and 3 years in Belgium before that.

Knowing the odd little phrase doesn't help, French is an elaborate language, it's very flowery and technical terminology is incredibly hard. You need to be able to explain what is happening, you need to be able to elaborate and players challenge you as a ref, and a native speaker translating back to their own language works far better than a non native speaker trying to fudge it with a few words here and there.

Saying "Jouer" isn't the same as reffing in French. So unless you're going to got he whole hog it's pretty pointless, and a silly thing to impose, which is what I believe your suggesting.
.

 

[bw245]

I also speak with some experience here having lived and played in France for 8 years and 3 years in Belgium before that.

Knowing the odd little phrase doesn't help, French is an elaborate language, it's very flowery and technical terminology is incredibly hard. You need to be able to explain what is happening, you need to be able to elaborate and players challenge you as a ref, and a native speaker translating back to their own language works far better than a non native speaker trying to fudge it with a few words here and there.

Saying "Jouer" isn't the same as reffing in French. So unless you're going to got he whole hog it's pretty pointless, and a silly thing to impose, which is what I believe your suggesting.
.

Of course, saying jouer isn't reffing in French. Nor is saying the basic phrases, but in my opinion, an effort should be made regardless and over time one will get better. I currently am studying in Germany as it's the current language I'm learning, and let me tell you, when I'm taking sports classes and they say certain things in English, it's amazing. You don't really appreciate it until you live abroad.

Anyway, I still believe an effort should be made. And Wayne Barnes does that. While it's not perfect and does have the same effect as Rolland's french did, I think the fact he's making an effort is really important.

 

[Shaggy]

Perhaps the referees should also learn Afrikaans and Japanese also ... I'd rather they concentrate on making correct, consistent calls (or even incorrect consistent calls) myself ... it just seems a little impractical to me to expect multi-lingual referees.

Given the sheer volume of international matches these days, I'm sure that the language barrier isn't as big an issue as it use to be.

Although I do see a benefit if all of the match officials speak the same language, particularly the referee and the TMO, but that seems to be hoping for too much, even if English is the native language of them both

 

[TRF_heineken]

Perhaps the referees should also learn Afrikaans and Japanese also ... I'd rather they concentrate on making correct, consistent calls (or even incorrect consistent calls) myself ... it just seems a little impractical to me to expect multi-lingual referees.

Given the sheer volume of international matches these days, I'm sure that the language barrier isn't as big an issue as it use to be

Hahaha!

Actually they should then learn all 11 official languages of South Africa. We can't discriminate by just letting them speak English and Afrikaans. While they're at it, they should learn Russian, Swahili and a few other languages too... Especially if they want to be refs at the Olympics...

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

I don't really get the Barnes hate (other than from Kiwis )
For me he's one of the best in the business.


Gonna be interesting to see how JP Doyle goes on the biggest stage - he does have a few stinkers (who doesn't?) but his refereeing of the AP Semi-final (or was it just a final round game?) last season was the only game I can remember where a referee was universally praised, and one of the main talking points was how good he was :lol:

I dont actually mind Barnes. Sometimes he can ref a game very well but some games he can make very poor decisions but overall he is not a bad ref but he's not quite Nigel Owens.

The only referee's that im concerned with is Glen Jackson and George Clancy, but i dont mind the rest off the selections.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

I haven't been a fan of Barnes in years. The game is so stop&start when he is on the field. The game Ireland vs Wales this yeR. Again, Wales deserved the win 100%. Ireland weren't good enough that day, but you cannot deny that Barnes had a couple of dodgy calls, especially the very last one where he awarded Wales the penalty. However, while his calls aren't maybe the right ones, he is consistent, which is something we don't see a lot anymore. Although he is consistent in making bad calls.

What? Have you actually rewatched that clip?

Just aslong as he doesn't ref another Scotland match then we might actually win a game for once.

Or if you were actually good

 

[YoungScud]

Look I never get him as I'm a Munster man. Fact is on pecking order in Europe he's effectively the 2nd best behind Owens in Europe. Just saying.
But no the Scottish and Hodges are a lot worst but that's not exactly saying standard is great

Can you name a poor top grade Scottish ref?

 

[goodNumber10]

Can you name a poor top grade Scottish ref?

to be fair i can't actually name any scottish refs off the top of my head....