Why isn't the Pro 12 split into conferences?

[Jerry Blue]

I was wondering why the Pro 12 isn't split into conferences by country? It seems to me this would be the best way for the Pro 12 to go. Three groups Irish, Welsh and Scottish/Italian. You could even add a 5th Welsh side and a 3rd Scottish side. Copy Super Rugby where you only play 4 teams from each group for the Welsh and Scottish/Italian groups and the Irish play 5 in each group (obviously if no expansion then everyone would play each other but still copying the Super Rugby model and could get another wildcard game to make up fixtures). This would make 16 games for each team 8 home and 8 away. You could also give each team 2 wildcard games one to be played against another team in your group and one from another group. This would give the league a chance to play big double header games and even do a magic weekend event in London or play a round of games across the USA or another country. Have an extra playoff round like Super Rugby and European qualification can stay the same.

 

[Peat]

Because the teams involved want 22 games for gate money, that's why.

If someone comes up with credible plans for expansion and the money to back a truncated season, it would make sense, but I am struggling to see it otherwise.

Also, if I were the Pro 12 looking to expand, instead of asking the Welsh and Scots whether they fancy another franchise, I would first try to persuade the likes of Romania, Spain, maybe Portugal and Germany, that they fancy entering. Because, while they would in all probability be dire, it would open new TV markets. Shame Georgia is so far away and Russia a likely permit nightmare.

 

[Jerry Blue]

The only problem with including teams from Spain, Portugal and Germany would be whether they could afford the travel expenses because if you model it on Super Rugby they would have 9 regular season away games and maybe 2 wildcard away games. Maybe World rugby would subsidize the travel? Or a sponsor? Though the group winner would get a home playoff spot. There would be good away trips for the fans!

 

[Peat]

Aye, fair point that, and I've no clue how they'd accomplish it - doubt World Rugby would step in. Guess private sponsors would be in the way. Still, I'd like them to ask questions how whether it could be done, whether there's interest.

 

[psychic duck]

Aye, fair point that, and I've no clue how they'd accomplish it - doubt World Rugby would step in. Guess private sponsors would be in the way. Still, I'd like them to ask questions how whether it could be done, whether there's interest.

With good reason. But it doesn't matter that much anyway, as an addition of more teams few care about would be a death knell for the league. The Ospreys already lose money on balance going to places like Connacht compared to the profits of the home game against them. The FIR are pouring vast amount of their budget into paying for their teams, which both with lowest attendances and interest in the league I doubt net a lot back.

 

[munstermuffin]

With good reason. But it doesn't matter that much anyway, as an addition of more teams few care about would be a death knell for the league. The Ospreys already lose money on balance going to places like Connacht compared to the profits of the home game against them. The FIR are pouring vast amount of their budget into paying for their teams, which both with lowest attendances and interest in the league I doubt net a lot back.

The Italians get well looked after. Welsh teams suffer as their gates are poor. But overall teams do get looked after well from Pro12

 

[psychic duck]

The Italians get well looked after. Welsh teams suffer as their gates are poor. But overall teams do get looked after well from Pro12

Not quite sure what you're trying to say there munstermuffin.

 

[munstermuffin]

Not quite sure what you're trying to say there munstermuffin.

Just that teams ain't loosing a whole lot on travel.

 

[Amiga500]

The Ospreys already lose money on balance going to places like Connacht compared to the profits of the home game against them.

Really?

Ospreys vs. Treviso: 6,213
Ospreys vs. Edinburgh: 6,340
Ospreys vs. Cardiff: 10,821
Ospreys vs. Connacht: 6,010
Ospreys vs. Ulster: 6,395
Ospreys vs. Scarlets: 15,632
Ospreys vs. Dragons: 7,152
Ospreys vs. Leinster: 7,557
Ospreys vs. Munster: 8,632
Ospreys vs. Zebre: 6,545
Ospreys vs. Glasgow: 10,981

5 games at around 6,000 - 6,500

Does that mean they'd be losing money on about half the games in the league?

 

[Car]

Rugby is am amateur sport in Germany and even the highest national league was divided into regions to reduce travel expenses, so I can't see how they should be able to finance this. Efforts, as far as they exist at all, are concentrated on the national team anyway. Getting thrashed by the other teams won't increase interest anyway and even the World Cup rights were only sold to Eurosport rather recently. Lower league football doesn't have any problems getting TV coverage (even 4th division matches are shown live), but even plenty of more popular sports are struggling (ice hockey, basketball). No, that wouldn't help us and it wouldn't help the current teams either.

 

[Jerry Blue]

I thought RK Heidelberger were a fully pro team?

- - - Updated - - -

Surely then it would be better to replace some of those home games with a derby or a big event game like a pro 12 magic weekend in London or Milan or the USA? or one of the national stadiums? A big pay day for all the teams and a boost to the profile of the league.

 

[Car]

I think they're semi pros, but if I'm not mistaken, they're not fully pros. There's the Wild Rugby Academy in Heidelberg, though.

 

[Car]

I thought RK Heidelberger were a fully pro team?

I asked about it: Many players of Heidelberger RK are working for Wild (Capri Sun, the same guy who also runs the Wild Rugby Academy), but they aren't fully pros either.

At the end of the 90s, they tried to establish a pro team ("Oakes"), but that didn't go anywhere. If there are pros, they're playing abroad.

There's Jimmy Keinhorst in rugby league (Super League), though, who is a full pro, but he was born and bred in England.

 

[Jerry Blue]

Ah so no German pro team then really. Shame that.

 

[Ospreylian]

This topic has come up recently in an interview with the Pro12 Managing Director, Martin Anayi. He says there is a "consultation process" going on at the moment and the chief executives want either a reduction in the number of teams or conferences (split the league in two and bring in more teams, perhaps London Welsh and London Scottish. He doesn't want to see the Italians leave because he sees that as a huge market and wants them to prove their worth at the top level.

He also wants to see more of the league played outside of the international windows.

Personally I would be up for them trying conferences. It could make things more competitive in the long run.

Here's the link to the interview.

 

[stus768]

This topic has come up recently in an interview with the Pro12 Managing Director, Martin Anayi. He says there is a "consultation process" going on at the moment and the chief executives want either a reduction in the number of teams or conferences (split the league in two and bring in more teams, perhaps London Welsh and London Scottish. He doesn't want to see the Italians leave because he sees that as a huge market and wants them to prove their worth at the top level.

He also wants to see more of the league played outside of the international windows.

Personally I would be up for them trying conferences. It could make things more competitive in the long run.

Here's the link to the interview.

Are London Welsh and London Scottish both based in Richmond?

It would be interesting to see whether SRU would be able to take advantage of London Scottish as a third Scottish team.

 

[Bee]

Are London Welsh and London Scottish both based in Richmond?

It would be interesting to see whether SRU would be able to take advantage of London Scottish as a third Scottish team.

London Scots are members of both, SRU and RFU !

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Martin Anayi's plan makes lot of sense. It's hard to muster much interest in the Pro 12 during the November tests and the 6 Nations. Removing those from the calendar would boost the league. Cut the league to 16 games and it ensures better quality takes the field every week.

Long term a Euroleague is the way forward. Should that not happen, a Pro 12 based on conferences could be the way to bring Georgia, Romania and North America into a strong professional structure once finances permit it. We need to find a solution that suits rugby and stop following the football model.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I just cannot see London based sides being "successful"... clearly how you define success is important here, but it's hard to believe that it's something that will increase the average gate numbers.